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Velvet
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PostSubject: Upper Class Victim   Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:12 pm

he actually shows up again in Downtown, in the Empire Arms Hotel Bar.
I think you should be able to use him as a Blood Doll yet again.

i am finding it incredibly dificult to feed in the TFN
i feel the need of...

he is such a good reliable blood doll in santa monica, i wish he could be so again in downtown, i am terrified of not finding enough to feed on in downtown.
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:36 pm

Why do you find it difficult to feed? In fact it's funny you mention that because I would enjoy putting more pedestrians in all of the maps to make it even more difficult. Make the streets busier n all. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:28 pm

Velvet, I'm having lots of trouble in understanding what you mean exactly. Can you use full sentences with punctuation ?
That's why I couldn't respond ; I'm trying to discuss all ideas with everyone alike so Zer0, Childe (and BG01 on CQM) have a full discussion with all ends and means to see....
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:43 pm

Do you have a physiological need of turning the game ever harder, zer0? Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:54 pm

.. Harder...

Yeah, probably >_>



Well, the World of Darkness IS hard ! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:20 pm

Well, usually my problem with feeding is, that the juiciest morsels always turn up, just after I have filled myself on inferior stuff like rats, or the odious chalice. No

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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:04 am

the reason why i am finding it hard to feed it that blood dolls and hookers are no longer surefire free meals. even with seduction a hooker asks for money, and blood dolls i only get the first dialogue line pink meaning seduction, and then the other dialogue lines none of them is surefire. so i am finding myself using my ability, i am playing a seth follower, but usually its use demands as many blood points as what i get out of my meal, so i end up a feeding with as many few blood points as i started. only the upper class victim, upon whom i only had to use the ability once and afterwards dutifuly waits for me at the hidden alley, i am finding a free surefire reliable fully satisfying meal, to completely replenish my blood points.

mind you i went without playing for a long time, am still at santa monica for the first time.
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:49 am

ThePhilosopher wrote:
Do you have a physiological need of turning the game ever harder, zer0? Rolling Eyes

HAHA! That made me LAWL! Razz And yes, I'm always trying to think of ways to make the game more challenging and difficult, but realistic and fun. I always enjoyed the tedious things in RPGs, this is no different.

Velvet wrote:
the reason why i am finding it hard to feed it that blood dolls and hookers are no longer surefire free meals. even with seduction a hooker asks for money, and blood dolls i only get the first dialogue line pink meaning seduction, and then the other dialogue lines none of them is surefire. so i am finding myself using my ability, i am playing a seth follower, but usually its use demands as many blood points as what i get out of my meal, so i end up a feeding with as many few blood points as i started. only the upper class victim, upon whom i only had to use the ability once and afterwards dutifuly waits for me at the hidden alley, i am finding a free surefire reliable fully satisfying meal, to completely replenish my blood points.

mind you i went without playing for a long time, am still at santa monica for the first time.

Yeah, Hookers ask for money until you hit Seduction 9 or 10, I forget which, at that point they are a surefire meal anywhere. Or you can use Haggle to eventually get Hookers to only charge you $5 per feeding, which is nothing, especially at later parts of the game where you would have money flowing out of your ears (Assuming you had a high Haggle throughout the whole game).

Blood Dolls + High Seduction (9+) are also a surefire way to feed without complications.

If you are playing a Setite then you will already have "Eyes of the Serpent" which is a great (AND FREE) way to mez people, not to mention using it is never a Masquerade Violation. Setites will find feeding in the hubs probably the easiest of all the clans. Even if two people are standing together, use EotS on one and feed on the other, then swap. There's 2 easy meals right there.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:03 pm

Yep, if yo're going hungry as a follwer, you certainly do something wrong. As Zer0 said, Eye of the Serpent alone should guarantee for a free meal just about anytime.

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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:38 am

EotS means hunting. means at least ambush, hunkering down in a discrete back alley until an unsuspecting passer by wanders along, then freezing him in the headlights of my eyes. it still implies jumping him with the F key the feed command the feed lurch - which is still at least a criminal ofeence at least if not also a masquerade violation. it is still hunting and stalking and ambushing.

i guess i grew lazy and soft in camarilla edition, and forgot what it says in the save screens: that vampires are predators....
for sure EotS freezes them and makes them more vulnerable and indulges a stupor where they will not be aware of what is coming, the victim at least can be fed on without growing none the wiser.

oh and i have a problem with calculating the distance at which i should press the F key. too close and i risk bumping into the victim and waking her up before i jump on her, does making her aware. too far and i still touch her but i get the message criminal offence and probably masquerade violation.

i really grew soft in camarilla edition, always feeding through dialogue options.... always talking them into allowing themselves to be fed upon, and never affraid to commit criminal offences and masquerade violations no matter how public the location was....

i guess i will have to go back to be a predator....

in santa monica there is a guy that periodically goes to pee behind a dumpster in the alley to the side of the asylum, that one i should be able to get at even without EotS.....

yup back to being a predator again..........
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:33 am

I must say even as a Tremere i have not been having any problems feeding, in fact i agree with zer0, more pedestrians would really make hunting a thrill Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:50 am

Gods I just finished Santa Monica, came back from blowing up the Sabat Warehouse, to find the cab waiting for me, and the upper class victim gone, and I tried to feed, and I found it incredibly difficult!!!
I found it incredibly dificult to find pedestrians in secluded locations where I could feed without both incurring a Masquerade Violation and a Criminal Offense.
And when I could find one it didn't completely replenish my blood pool, so I had to go look for another, and by the time I finally managed to find one my blood pool had once again lowered so much that my second feeding once again failed to completely repnelish my blood pool. And the problem of double feeding, random pedestrians don't replenish their blood pool, so that if you happen to feed twice from the same one you drain him instantly and incur humanity loss.
I spent at least a full hour of game play, a very frustrating and harrowing one, just trying to make it to cab with a wholly replenished blood pool, so that I could move to Downtown with a wholly replenished blood pool. About the most frustrating and pointless time ever in the whole experience of playing the game.
Gods I do hate to hunt.
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:05 am

... Well life sucks then you die, and unlife souks just as much !
There is this one dude who walks alone in the alley to go fo a piss right on the side of the asylum. The policeman close to the parking lot is easy to get too. I even think the hobos next to the bailbounty hunter move enough so you can get one in a quiet corner...

Dude, feeding is easy as hell ! Even if you mask violation, there are so many ways to masc redemption that you don't even care. I have made playthroughts with about any type of characters (social or not, melee or firearms, stealth kills, or not..) and feeding was never a problem. Except that time I chose a gun malkie who had no brawl so feeding on unwilling victims was a pain (eversince feeding didn't automatically restore your health !)
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:57 pm

I made a gun Malkie too, claudia. He was the by far my strongest character(killed that kuei jin queen without taking one hit), and i had no problem to feed whatsoever.

Using dementate 1 on the enemies was enough to get quite a bite from them, even with no brawl. And obfuscate helped, too
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Velvet
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:55 am

I don't know how many times i went looking for the guy that takes a piss beside the dumpster in the alley to the side of asylum and he was not there. And when I finally found him there I had already lost so much blood to blood loss that he didn't replenish my bloodpool.
I felt that zer0 had also altered the behavior of pedestrians, so that they behaved in ways that made it impossible for me to find them alone in dark corners. For example there are usually guys at the edge of the car park, but there was always a couple of them, and it took me a while to figure out how to feed on one of them without the other being wise to what was happening.

But yes with malkavians it is easy as pie to feed. If there were groups of people I would use a dementate that affects crowds to render them oblivious, and then dementate 1 on the one that I wanted to feed from so as to render him powerless and unable to deffend himself, and then feeding from him without the others being the wiser would be easy as pie.
I have tried that with the follower of set I am playing with now, but I still haven't quite got the hang of it.

Plus.
Again, I am not complaning. Maybe I am a bit too vulnerable to challenges, and the frustration inherent in attempting to overcome them, but if I surrender to that then I wouldn't do anything at all with my life. So I clench my teeth and try to find pleasure in not only being able to finally overcoming those challenges but a perverse masochistic pleasure in the frustration itself. For me the worse is nothing at all, and boredom. Negative emotions are something, and therefore good, and the comfort in overcoming those negative emotions then doubly good, elation.

And Claudia in TFN for each Masquerade Violation you attract a hunter. For example copper there is a fun way to be rid of him, send him out to get the president. You incur a masquerade violation but so what, soon after you get the werewolf blood quest and you get a masquerade violation redemption and that is that, right? Except when I finally made my way to the Asylum I stumbled upon a Hunter and he killed me three times before I managed to find a strategy to overcome him and go on with the game. So, in TFN, even though indeed yes it is easy to get masquerade redemption, a masquerade violation is not so trivial a matter anymore.

Let's just say that I like to lay low. Not to raise waves. I mean, in my relationship with kine. Not to incur masquerade violation or criminal offenses from the mere act of feeding. I like to be as unobstrusive as possible.


As a side note. I had often wondered how you could get away from the shootout at the surfside diner. I always made sure to get away from there in a sneaky and hasty way, to make sure the cops didn't come. Imagine my shock when, playing that quest in TFN my worse nightmares came true. The police comes along imediately, and you hear a bullhorn, terrifyingly loud, ordering you to surrender. And you get out and they imediately fire upon you. I also died a couple of times before I managed to get away. And worse, they followed me into the sewers! I had to kill a handful of them before the police gave up the hunt.
Once again, scary as hell, and frutrating, another challenge that it took me a while to figure out how to overcome it. But. Kudos for zer0 for having introduced that change, it was more than logical, I had always felt like it should happen when it didn't, and now it happens. Logical. Kudos for that.
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:39 am

Velvet,
For the hunter after sending Copper off to Washington. I really like the idea. Easiest and cheapest way to get a knife early in TFN.
For hunting, if the victim isn't in a combat modus, you can just jump him without bothering about brawl. And Serpentis is even better than Dementation for feeding in public. With Serpentis (or Dominate for that matter, if you're playing CE), if you happen upon two people, just use charm one of them, and feed off the other one while the first is incapacitated and doesn't notice. With Dementationhowever, you can't use this tactic, because Hystery draws a lot of attention.
For the police after the diner shootout, if I remember right, I managed to get away without police even in TFN. I just don't know exactly why. From my last tests with CE, I think police might be triggerd, if you answer the phone before you put your weapon away. But as I was testing something else then, I didn't bother to check it out any further.

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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:33 pm

At the diner, I always collect the weapons before I answer the phone. If you wait until after you talk to Therese, you can take too long, and that's when the police show up.

After I hang up the phone, I go straight to the door. Wait around a few seconds, and you will start to hear sirens. (Or leave before then if you want.) Once the sirens start, you have a few seconds to leave before they show up outside. If you wait, or you are collecting weapons, the cop cars are there when you leave.

At least, this is how it used to work. Somebody broke it in one of the mods (can't remember which), so the police never show up. This annoyed me.

If you are running from cops, you can go into one of the side tunnels in the sewers... the ones that lead to the surface. If you are in far enough they won't see you, and if you're paranoid just climb the ladder a little so you can't see them. Wait until the "Cops have given up" message, and you are okay.

I've seriously never had so much trouble feeding that my blood timer runs down. (I don't like the blood timer, but that's another issue.) There are enough pedestrians that it's not a problem. A few hints:
- Learn their patterns (like real hunting). It's almost too easy, but many walk close to alleys and dark corners. The two goth guys like to pee in the alley near the Asylum, just after you exit the club. Crouch, and make certain nobody can see you.
- When it rains, people like to get under cover... sometimes they are all alone in the entrance to Gallery Noir, or the awning between the medical clinic and the tattoo parlor. Careful nobody is close, though... someone might walk into the same shelter while you're feeding.
- If the pedestrians are running low on blood, go inside (haven, Asylum, etc.) and exit again. They are magically replenished. I prefer to think they are new people, instead of the same ones refilled by magic. Smile
- The same applies to blood dolls, like the two in Asylum. I don't usually raise my Seduction very high, but apparently Santa Monica club girls are really easy. Very Happy If you can't seduce them, you are part Nossie.
- When you exit the Pawnshop, there is a woman across the street, by the alley. Run across, get behind her, crouch, and feed on her before the hooker by the Tattoo Parlor can see her.
- Trouble judging distance before using the 'F' key? Unless you're Obfuscated, I suggest running into someone, and then pressing 'F' to feed immediately. It's not subtle, but it puts you in perfect range for feeding.

Santa Monica is the easiest place to feed, in my opinion. If these tips don't help... well, I'd suggest you get a lot of money, so you can buy bloodpacks from Vandal.
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:40 am

Childe I did figure that out, EotS to render the witness oblivious and then feed on the other. But I am too used to render the one I want to feed from powerless and oblivious before I strike at him, it was counter intuitive to do the opposite, render oblivious the possible witness and then merely jump the one I do intend to feed from, I fear incuring masquerade violations and criminal offences and failing a feed attempt if I don't render the intended victim oblivious and helpless before hand with a discipline.

Both Childe and PGM, like I mentioned before, I fell out of practice of hunting, I took it for granted that with high seduction I could feed with no problem whatsoever. Now I have to learn all over again to hunt. And thanks for all your tips, but indeed some of them I have already managed to figure out on my own.

But.
Regarding the surfside diner shootout, the first time I played it in TFN not too long ago, the thugs were clustered around the phone on that edge of the diner, and they opened fire upon me almost as soon as I entered the diner and they caught sight of me, no trigger location whatsoever.
But, more to the point, I incured a criminal violation with the first shot I gave in return, and IMEDIATELY there came a voice on a bullhorn, police demanding my surrender. I had to shoot them all while the police was demanding my surrender, yes gather all the fallen weapons before I answered the phone, and only after indeed answer the phone.
And when I left the diner they were already waiting for me. Imediately.
And like I said they followed me into the sewers. They were incredibly persistent. And I felt the need to kill a couple of them that came too close and if I remember well spotted me and opened fire.
But then yes I decided to lay low and conceal myself, and indeed soon after the message stating police give up came along.
And then a stupid coincidence happened, I was trying to feed on rats to heal from the damage (I mean, to replenish blood pool after use of disciplines in combat and blood heal in the aftermath) and I run into a cop that moments before had been chasing me, but that after the message police gives up became completely oblivious to me.

But. Once again. It was harrowing, and I think I died a couple of times before I got it right. But. It is much more logical this way, and I am actually glad it happened this way. Even though it was so harrowing. I am not complaining.
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:45 pm

I really enjoyed reading this thread. Many people brought up many good points and ideas. I'm still a little confused as to why it's so hard for Velvet to feed in TFN but I'm glad to hear that it's a challenge she enjoys.

As far as the diner goes and the cop comes, the mechanics works like this. If anyone, including the gang members, attacks the chef in any way, even by accident, the police are called. If nobody hurts the chef, the cops don't come. Now 9 times out of 10 when the bullets start flying, SOMEBODY will accidently shoot the chef and that's why the criminal violation occurs. So to avoid the cops, protect the chef.

As far as hunting goes. I have changed many of the spots the pedestrians walk to for TFN 1.1, along with adding new pedestrians with new routes. I designed feeding to be quite a challenge but very rewarding. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:13 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
I designed feeding to be quite a challenge but very rewarding. Smile

We will get to suck a PhD?

*sits on hind legs, looks up at Zer0 with adorable puppy eyes and wags*
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:38 am

Feral wrote:
Zer0Morph wrote:
I designed feeding to be quite a challenge but very rewarding. Smile

We will get to suck a PhD?

*sits on hind legs, looks up at Zer0 with adorable puppy eyes and wags*
Yep, and the pot smoking guy. After that you're high for the rest of the game drunken

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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:15 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Yep, and the pot smoking guy. After that you're high for the rest of the game drunken

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HAHA, would that make you frenzy? lol Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:22 pm

Nope. In fact it would stop you frenzying. If, on the other hand, you got the girl who is on speed, you'd immediately frenzy Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:36 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Nope. In fact it would stop you frenzying. If, on the other hand, you got the girl who is on speed, you'd immediately frenzy Razz

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And what if you sucked a girl on a rape pill!? Shocked Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: Upper Class Victim   Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:38 pm

Temporary torpor.
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