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Ragnos
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:58 am

the first time i played thru the oean house i died in that exploding halway but yeah crouch has worked everytime since then Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:32 am

Claudia it was not an excuse i know i have none it was by way of an explanation.

And Childe of Malkav got me, it is not a matter of actually needing, it is a matter of getting nervous at watching blood pool going down while not being able to do anything about it, it is totally irrational. as i tried to explain, it is beyond cold calculation logic of knowing that i don't need, the best explanation is too much identification, experiencing lowering blood pool in charfacter as personal hunger and getting cranky with it, and anxious at the fact i cannot do anything about it. it is YOU who are not getting me, who are not scratching the surface of my words. i can see you are pragmatic and detached when you play, and the fact that you don't need blood packs is enough for me. with me it is a totally irrational nervousness and probably much too deep an identification knowing that i cannot do anything about lowering blood pool, even when i know it won't become an issue. like Childe of Malkav i become nervous when blood pool drops beneath a certain level, regardless of any actual game consequences emerging.

and Feral? you are quite right, or close enough as makes no difference. I am portuguese. and not too long ago i learned, actually i remember learning it in a creative writing workshop, that you can wholly fool around with gramatcial rules of the sequence between subject, verb, complement, alter their orders, for literary effect.

and was it Childe of Malkav? good advice, the one about crouching. in the boiler room i do get anxious with getting out of there as fast as i can and i run and i have poor control of the character and i run into where i shouldn't - much better to crouch and take my time and let damaging bits fly over me. but the flying pans kitchen i had actually come on my own to your suggestion of where to place myself.

and Claudia once again it is not the FACT that it is hard to die even with all the damage i take, it is the frustration of taking damage and not being able to dish damage back, not to be able to damage the threat that damages me to ensure that it stops damaging me, like is combat, it is the relative powerlessness, yes the most i can do is "duck" to try to avoid the damage, a rather passive atitude, and not being able to actually DO anything about it.

it definitley gets me on edge.

oh i make a point of poking every nook and cranny, but man do i feel anxious about doing it....

(btw consider my not capitalization an idiosyncrasy. i use capitalization for emphasis, as you would use either italics or bold. this is not so important, this is rather Important, this is very IMPORTANT. and call it excessive humility the choice that i make of not capitalizing the i as in I don't like to capitalize it. in my language it is "eu" and i think you never capitalize it.)



oh and i sure would like to watch a video clip of you going through this level.





on the annoying ghoul? i like to send her to the flesh eating vampire. after all, she is a friend, she does me a good turn, gives me good quests and fine mystical items in return, and i like her tragedy. so i like to send her a meal. and i do get a thank you from her if i visit her afterwards. Julius i kill as straightforwardly as possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:11 am

Velvet, about capitalizing the I in english, that's something I have to rmember, too. In german, it's the other way round. There you capitalize the "You".

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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:55 am

I wasn't talking about capitalizing the I, I was thinking about using correct syntax. Portuguese and German both use syntaxes, with dots, comas, and a capital letter for proper names and after a dot. Each time there is a dot, there should be a capital letter after. And no space before the dot ! Wink
I don't give a fuck about how Portuguese works as a language even though I understand it (*knows Spanish and some Latin*), but you're communicating in English, so you must use English rules. I don't care you don't capitalize the I, I care that you're not putting a capital letter on the first word of a sentence. You can't just ditch language rules just because you don't like them, and use your own, and expect us (me) to understand you. If you are, then go and speak directly in Portuguese, it's worth the same.

I don't care for typos, or even correct spelling, shit, English is my THIRD language ! I'm sure as hell not saying people that they're using wrong vocabulary and shit, but come on, "English is not my native language" is not an excuse for not making correct sentences, with punctuation, dots, and a capital letter at the beginning of each sentence. Because that's how all languages of western Europe work, since we are all using Latin letters and Arab numbers. We all write from left to right, and horizontally. We all use comas, dots, exclamation marks, question marks. Some of us have special accents (the ~ which we, as Iberic speakers, know, but also the é, è, ê, ë, the ç, and I won't even try to find that funny special B German letter which is, in truth, a double SS).


I am just not able to understand what the hell you're talking about. Put your trail of thoughts in order ! This is WRITTEN media, not oral media, you have to use your brain a little before going for that "send" button. Is it so hard to use 3/4 of your keyboard ? I take time to write something intelligible even when I post with my phone. ESPECIALLY when I post with my phone. Make short, clear sentences, with subject, verb and complement. The goal is that you make yourself clear enough so everybody can understand what you are talking about. And I am just not able to understand you. I have to read like 4 times each of your sentences, think in Spanish, and say "ooohhh she meant...". It's a fucking pain in the ass, because you don't seem to want to make the effort of writing clearly.
Are you using an automatic translator ? Stop trying to make long sentences, use comas, and think about what you want to say. Reread yourself. We're not in your head (at least I am not, maybe Malkav is...) trying to figure out what you meant, you have to make the effort yourself.

Understand that we are all making efforts to make ourselves clear, we are thinking about communication skills. We're not writing in sms language, not in lolomgdairyqueen, nor in 1337. We are all using one same communication type. Some of us use a few abbreviations ("btw"), but only the most common ones, and if people do not know it, well, we explain to them.



Oh And Speaking And Writing Like This Shows Nothing About Importance. This Type Of Writing Is Only Used For Book, Essay, Film, Or Any Other Title. In France People Writing Like This Are Considered Douchebags Of The Web. liKe peOpLe WritiNg LiKe tHIs. Or asshole msn users who have a bunch of smileys for lots of words, so each time the letters "je" appear together, some awful gif appears pointing to themselves (which is problematic when the two letters together show up in the middle of a word and it cuts it, and we are like "wtf ? ah, the word is jeune !")



As for the frustration about not being to be able to do anything against the ghost (if that's what you mean !!), well, that's the whole point of the Ocean House ! It's like going for a FPS and whining about people using guns to kill you from a distance, that's the point !
You CAN avoid most damage if you think twice before moving and if you open your eyes and ears a minimum.



Sorry about the hijack and the rant, but it pisses me off that people just assume shit. I don't hate anyone or so, it just very frustrating that I'm making huge efforts to communicate and people just don't give a fuck.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:34 pm

*Hands out a cup of herbal tea*

Just glad the language of the forum is english, not french. It's the third language I have learnt. I'd probably still be able to read a french text, but if I had to write one... No

Well, my sentences tend to get too long, too. (Perhaps I got infected with Marx. You can't even understand that guy's texts if german is your native language) But if I do notice it, I try to rewrite.

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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:53 pm

God, no, no french please. They write beaucoup and speak bocu. you have to scratch the "r" like in "rrrrrat".No offense.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:05 am

Did I appear to be complaining? I guess I did... Too often people mistake me stating contrary facts for complaining about them...
I was not complaining about the frustration of not being able to fight back against the ghost. I acknowledge that it is the point of the level. I was merely stating that it is one of the facts that turns this level so "edge of your seat", "seat of your pants". One of the factors that sets me on edge while playing through it. Hey it would be the same as a fan of horror movies complaining that they scare him. I mean that is the whole point of horror movies. To scare someone. And to be a fan of horror movies you have to enjoy being scared by them. I am a fan of this level. But in a perverse masochistic way: Enjoying the negative emotions that it elicits, like this frustration of not being able to fight back.
Regarding blood-pool: For the same reason that I cannot replenish the blood pool, I feel that disciplines that expend blood are pointless. It never ocurred to me to use blood buff to render myself imune to damage. Plus, blood buff is the discipline that expends more blood. Quite unwise to use it when you cannot replenish your blood pool. And I never felt the damage taken severe enough to justify blood heal. All other disciplines appear rather pointless. With the possible exception of Auspex. If I were using a clan of Vampires that has it in their arsenal. Because it might herlp uncover hidden items. Like the missing ax (the point of this thread) and other plot items like newspaper clippings outlining the story.

(Have I been using and abusing inversion grammar? I might.... But that is something so ingrained that I cannot self censor...)
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:27 am

Anyway. Back on topic. We got a bit sidetracked here.

What about the items that used to be here? The Axe-Murderer's very own Axe? Something so logic to find here? Or the mystical item that was here in the vanilla version? Or the book that was here in the Camarilla Edition? I know that both the axe and the book can be had a Tripp.

But my question is, are they really not here anymore, for whatever reasons the game developper saw fit not to put them here, or was it a matter of I not being able to find them, either due to low Inspection or due to my being too nervous to actually find them when they were indeed there?
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:49 am

Velvet, afaik both items have been completely removed in TFN.
Both, hiding the axe, and swapping the book and the magic item are features of Wesps plus patch. He put the axe there, becuse it is a good idea. And swapping the book and the item; well a low grade book at Grout's just comes too late. Especially for an important ability like dodge.
So in plain vanilla, there is only the item in the hotel, and the dodge book at Grout's.

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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:42 am

Thanks, Childe, I had been wondering about that.
I did find a ring though.

One thing. The room where the ax was found in at Wesp's patch has then been rendered useless. In that patch there was a reason to go to any and all rooms in that floor, the other rooms advance the plot and in that one the ax was found. Now there seems to be no point in going to that room.

And another. It was convenient that in CE edition in Santa Monica there were weapons to be had for free and connected with the plot: The tire iron in the car where you find Lily's journal, the knife that Jeanette gives you to slash the paintings at Gallery Noir, and the ax in the ocean house hotel. And the ax was, how to put it? Melee weapons seem to come in two brands, common tools that can be used as weapons, and things that are specificaly weapons. The ax was the most powerful of the first kind of weapons, before you had access to specific weapons like the katana. It was convenient that you could get it for free while exploring a plot building. The game seems a bit impoverished now that you can no longer do it. It was really a good idea, that one that Wesp had.

On the other hand, it is equally logic that you get the katana and the crossbow from the "asian dude", but to me it always feels too precocious to get your hand on something so powerful, something that would upset the balance of the game. Me I deal with that only using the katana for stealth kills, sure kills regardless of the weapon you use.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:38 pm

Velvet, I agree to certain points of your statement. But you'll have to ask Zer0 about the reasons for his changes. Maybe you can even find the axe in Ocean House, but only with very high inspection. I never bothered to check....

But i think you're absolutely right in the respect that the katana from the asian dude is too powerful for such an early state of the game. And then, you get it for free. You just have to kill one rather weak enemy. (weak for a boss fight)

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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:37 am

Childe exactly, this is what is nagging at me, was my inspection too low for me to find the axe or is it not there altogether? I cannot let go of this doubt... Though I did find it for sale at Trip, so probably that is where it has gone to...

Regarding the katana, it is not so much how easy or not he is to kill, it is that you have to kill him to fulfil the quest, that is what I feel you mean by "for free". Is it a kind of reward for that? XPs for killing him and powerful loot?

Anyway I have my way to play through the game, deal with all the side quests first before I tackle the main quests, and I leave that particular side quest for last. And like I said I only use the Katana at the Sabbat warehouse, and then only for stealth kills, which are sure kills no matter what weapon you use (or none.)
So I self impose restraint on how I use it so as not to upset too much the balance of the game.

There is an expression, a military one. Even though you can wholly destroy someone who attacks you you only employ a measure of counter offensive adequate to the offensive. If the enemy destroys one of your ships you only destroy one of theirs, you do not go about destroying his harbor.

On the other hand I feel that the crossbow should be much more powerful than what it is, at least as powerful as a sniper rifle. I love the crossbow because I see it as the only weapon that affords ranged stealth kills - except it doesn't. It merely wounds the foe, a mere mosquito prick, and in doing so it alerts the foes to your presence, and then the whole point of having used it in the first place is rendered moot, and you have to change to more powerful but also noisier guns if you want to survive.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:15 am

Velvet wrote:
Childe exactly, this is what is nagging at me, was my inspection too low for me to find the axe or is it not there altogether? I cannot let go of this doubt... Though I did find it for sale at Trip, so probably that is where it has gone to...
Ok, if it's really nagging you so much, I'll look it up... No it's really removed from the map. No weapons to be found there.

Velvet wrote:
Regarding the katana, it is not so much how easy or not he is to kill, it is that you have to kill him to fulfil the quest, that is what I feel you mean by "for free". Is it a kind of reward for that? XPs for killing him and powerful loot?
Yes, something like that. Eventually you have to kill him, so you'll get the katana no matter what. On the other hand it wouldn't be that unbalancing if you had to buy it. Then you have the choice of spending your money on something else, or scraping up every cent you can get, in order to afford such an expensive weapon early in the game.

Velvet wrote:
Anyway I have my way to play through the game, deal with all the side quests first before I tackle the main quests, and I leave that particular side quest for last. And like I said I only use the Katana at the Sabbat warehouse, and then only for stealth kills, which are sure kills no matter what weapon you use (or none.)
So I self impose restraint on how I use it so as not to upset too much the balance of the game.
My point exactly. Though I restrain myself more for reasons of weapon size and concealability.

Velvet wrote:
There is an expression, a military one. Even though you can wholly destroy someone who attacks you you only employ a measure of counter offensive adequate to the offensive. If the enemy destroys one of your ships you only destroy one of theirs, you do not go about destroying his harbor.
Well, if you want to win the war, you have to be ruthless. There is no point in leaving the enemy the opportunity to destroy more of your ships... Or you decide not to srike at his foot soldiers at all, except for pure self defense. And go about removing the top (Btw, know any good assassins?)

Velvet wrote:
On the other hand I feel that the crossbow should be much more powerful than what it is, at least as powerful as a sniper rifle. I love the crossbow because I see it as the only weapon that affords ranged stealth kills - except it doesn't. It merely wounds the foe, a mere mosquito prick, and in doing so it alerts the foes to your presence, and then the whole point of having used it in the first place is rendered moot, and you have to change to more powerful but also noisier guns if you want to survive.
Hm, perhaps I could reduce the criminal level of the crosssbow, and get the damage up a bit. It's main use is, that it's the only distance weapon that deals lethal damage.

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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:14 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Well, if you want to win the war, you have to be ruthless. There is no point in leaving the enemy the opportunity to destroy more of your ships... Or you decide not to srike at his foot soldiers at all, except for pure self defense. And go about removing the top (Btw, know any good assassins?)
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:39 am

Not right now. Thanks

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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:04 am

Childe I feel you addressed all my questions but one.

I am aware of two things. There are such things as Rules of Engagement. And in a time of nuclear weaponry nobody wants a conflict to escalate to the point where they come into play. So, for example at the time of the cold war, if the russians undertook a military action, the americans would not respond with a military action of a higher degree than the one they had suffered, because then the russians would respond in kind, and pretty soon we would have a nuclear holocaust. So I am indeed aware that there is such a thing as a military action in response to a military action of the same weight as the one suffered. The same thing between palestinians and israelis, if the israelis suffer a terrorist action they destroy the terrorist camp from which that action came, they do not respond with a military strike of their own against military or civilian palestinian targets - or they might get grief from the rest of the world. Nowadays we live in times of mock wars, lukewarm conflicts, and usually nobody wants them to escalate into full blown red hot conflicts, so there is a pressure to adjust the response to the dimension of the offense.
And I know that somewhere along the line I came into contact with the correct expression. Most likely in works of fiction, I wager, but still. But for the life of me I cannot seem to remember.

But anyway this is sligthly off topic...

Or it isn't.
I will admit outright. It has been weighing on my conscience and I feel the need to come clean. Plus I believe others do it but keep mum about it. Though that to me doesn't matter, it is between me and my consciousness and the way I choose to play the game.
As soon as I found out you could, I started cheating. I use a lot the vstats cheat.
Still, I am careful.
I tend to have the disciplines typical to the clan at full level from almost the beginning of the game. But I don't use them all the time. I don't go into Apep's semblance at the surfer's house even though I could, because it is excessive use of force for the conflict in question. But I find the shade in gallery noir and the asian dude challenging enough to justify that. And at the sabbat warehouse I don't go Apep's semblance against the humans, but I go against the sabat vampires that stand in my way after arming the astrolite.
I cheat and give myself all the powers at the beginning of the game, but then use restraint, and use them according to the magnitude of the threat I am facing.

Plus in another game altogether in the save screens they have given the following hint: do not underestimate the value of a well placed low level spell. In my view the eye of the serpent and phobia, low level followers of set powers, are devastatting enough. They both render the opponents powerless, at a distance. EotS is devastating to ensure I can combat feed no matter how low my brawl stats are. And phobia is a multitarget ranged power, I render the opponents helpless and then dispose of them with ranged weapons, guns, at my leisure, not risking being fired upon by the ones I am shooting at.

Bottom line, even though I give myself all the levels of the powers, I only use them at a measure adequate to the conflict I am engaging in.




Regarding the crossbow.
I used to love to use it at the hunter's manor. I wanted to sneak in, and dispose of all the guards on the outside in a stealthy manner. Hence the crossbow. You know, a ninja strike. You dispose of the last guard before he becomes aware that the first one as already fallen. Except it doesn't work that way. It merely wounds the first guard, and he gives the alarm, and imediately I am engaged in a all out battle with all the guards in the neighborhood. Now, if the crossbow did afford instant kills, I could do what I want, dispose of all the sentries stealthily, quietly, ninja style.
But this is wistful thinking, wishing....
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:15 am

Velvet wrote:
I was not complaining about the frustration of not being able to fight back against the ghost. I acknowledge that it is the point of the level. I was merely stating that it is one of the facts that turns this level so "edge of your seat", "seat of your pants". One of the factors that sets me on edge while playing through it. Hey it would be the same as a fan of horror movies complaining that they scare him. I mean that is the whole point of horror movies. To scare someone. And to be a fan of horror movies you have to enjoy being scared by them. I am a fan of this level. But in a perverse masochistic way: Enjoying the negative emotions that it elicits, like this frustration of not being able to fight back.

I know this isn't relevant to the topic, but since it was discussed, I just wanted to go on record as saying that the Ocean Hotel is probably my favorite quest in the game. The very first time I played through it (with a Gangrel--Gleam of the Red Eye helps a whole lot!) I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. It is so spooky and creepy, and I absolutely love it! This part of the game is the very definition of survival horror. I think the second best part of the game is the house on the hill in Hollywood. Those weird creatures and the Tzimisce are absolutely freakish! This game got everything right when it came to showing just how truly frightening and fucked up the World of Darkness really is. I do hope they reflect that in the new MMO. Anyway, off topic and a bit late so I'll leave off there with apologies.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:09 am

You do understand that I love this level, even though it scares me.
I don't deal all too well with adrenaline. But I do like it, every so often.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:55 am

A Proportional Response

And this is the context where I learned the concept

We live in a time of lukewarm war. Everybody is affraid of WWIII, especially with the proliferation of nuclear armament in devellopping countries even while the former global powers are scaling back their nuclear arsenals. No one wants any conflict to escalate to a full blown war that could itself then go global.
So when say an islamic country attacks Israel, through a terrorist attack, Israel must answer with a proportional response, trace the terrorist camp from which it emerged and wipe it out, or it risks going into full blown war with all the surrounding islamic countries, and a conflict that could go nuclear.
Your assertion, Childe, was correct in the olden days. The Art of War.
But it is inadequate to today's juncture, the current state of affairs.

And therefore.
While you do get access to powerful weapons early in the game.
And I myself through cheating give myself the full gammut of the Discipline characteristic to the Clan I am playing, in this case Serpentis, I only use the weaponry and the disciplines at my disposal in proportion to the threats I am facing.

And like I said above, I never underestimate the power of a lower level discipline applied effectively.
Throughout the game, for me EotS remains the best possible way to dispose of any human threat, also and because it helps me to combat feed.

Edit:

But I love what zer0 did with the weapons: that he gave advantages to less dammaging weapons and disadvantages to more damaging weapons, either than the melee requirement "bonuses".
In the end lol! I decided that I did not want the axe after all, I chose not to purchase it from Tripp, because of its disadvantages, I will settle for the knife thank you very much for melee combat with bladed weapons, and my favorite bludgeoning weapon is definitely the police baton.

On a side note: there is a RPG I am playing at the same time that differentiates between Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing dammage.

But I guess here in the context of this game aggravated damage and lethality is what matters.....
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:00 pm

Okay, one lifetime away, but here it is, proof that's it's possible to raid the hotel and not even think about blood, and I was randomly playing out of nowhere, for the lulz, no training no nothing Very Happy


Sorry about those random zooms, and the horrible voice I have <_< :

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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:35 pm

Nice, but you left out a newspaper. The one telling about the fire. In the corner of the elevator entrance next to the reception desk.

On a related matter, any idea how we can implement the effect of rotschreck when the ghostly fires on the top level start?

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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:36 am

Well f* me >_<
I'm so used to having a high inspection character that everything SPARKLES all around me Very Happy I have horrible memory

I just -might- create playthroughs of each mod, for the lulz...



As for Rotschreck, that's a very nice idea (and for all occasions of where fire is very threatening...) ! If only that Will Power trait could work...
It all depends on the limits of the engine ; Rotschreck is "the fear of red". The Beast takes control to flee for survival, destroying anything standing in it's way to find a safe place. If I were the Beast, I'd run back and crawl under a bed Smile
So, is it possible to have a "frenzy check" specificly triggered in certain parts of the game, which would take control of the character and make it run away ?
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Feral
Caine
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:37 am

"Oh, nice arm..." when you got to the newspaper on the table made me LOL.
Very Tremerish of you...
Nice playtrough. Relative lack of damage was impressive.
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Claudia
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:43 am

<_<
Impressive ?
Srsly ?

(I have to find a way to get rid of that zomm in the program did, from the first (edit : and only !) blood heal)
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Velvet
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:48 am

Thank you for sharing this. A nice variation from the standard written walkthroughs. And impressive indeed.
I will take it into consideration next time I play this level.

The frenzy check for fear of fire sounds like a nice idea. Fire is very damaging for vampires, aggravated damage and all that. Makes sense: Such an atavistic fear that the beast takes over.
But it might make it almost impossible? If you are overcome with frenzy you might well run towards the danger and ending up commiting suicide. Or if you withdrew you would have to wait for the frenzy to wait before trying again. Bloodloss and all that, wasted time.
But hey everybody loves a challenge, hey? As it is, if you crouch you can do this without any problem at all, it is scary but not really dangerous, by crouching you avoid all damage.

LOL. I don't need for my character to frenzy, the player does that on his own quite easily as it it.
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PostSubject: Re: Ocean House Items   Today at 8:29 pm

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