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 Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions

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Goat Cheese
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PostSubject: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:36 pm

Having played Bloodlines only once with basic Wesp patch, i have to say, the thing im most annoyed about is that the very useful Blood Buff has gone from an incredible 5 to all stats to a lousy 1, which on top of my head makes lockpicking alone insanely overcomplicated. Not only that, but i must spend 50 XP to get it to the point where it equals its vanilla version. Also the lack of feed heal...and the blood loss...and various nerfs to clan traits

But i digress

My question: Is blood buff supposed to be stackable? at 5 points, the first usage uses up 1 blood point and every usage while BB is active costs 3 and seems to stack in duration. I used the ability 3 consecutive times, and the buff has lasted well over 5 minutes now

And another one: "Trait" "VampHeal_Type"
"Modifier" "Duration 300%" // 180, changed by wesp

Is that the natural regeneration rate? And if yes, how much is in the original game? I read CE also lowers health regen rate, so im curious to know by just how much

Also, does the 125% discipline Occult item extend the 90-120 second durations of CE buffs to 112.5 -150 ?

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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:12 am

Hey youngblood,

welcome to the forum.

I completely disagree with you on bloodbuff. IMO, the +5 in vanilla is horribly overpowered. For the plus version of his patch, Wesp has toned it down to +2, without the chance to increase it. Also the duration of the CE version is considerably longer. For the bloodcost, this is a problem we couldn't solve. If you reactivate the discipline while it is still running, we couldn't change the cost. And every discipline that is not instant will stack the duration, when called again while it's still running.

For the numbers, I haven't really looked into it since the beta testing for version 1.2, about two years ago.

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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:35 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:


For the bloodcost, this is a problem we couldn't solve. If you reactivate the discipline while it is still running, we couldn't change the cost. And every discipline that is not instant will stack the duration, when called again while it's still running.


- geek

Do you mean to say blood buff level 5 is intended to cost 1 blood upon each use and stack with itself? Because I could easily see using the ability some 6 times while drinking from an enemy, which should net you 12 minutes of blood buff AND keep you at max blood. Which is all sorts of awesome.
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:22 pm

For the cost. it's intended to cost 1 bloodpoint when you initially start the discipline. If you reactivate it while it's still running, it costs the original 3 points.
I didn't script the changed disciplines. That was Zer0. And I have never run tests, how much time you can add by reactivating it. If it really stacks, or if you only reset the timer.
And to be honest, I don't intend to find out.

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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:44 pm

Not that I know much about the programming for this, but I can tell you what the books says as far as the 'Blood Buff' effect goes: one blood point allows you to boost one physical attribute (Strength, Dexterity, or Stamina) by one dot for one turn (three seconds). Kindred with lower generation may spend more than one blood point per turn, thus allowing them to stack the effect if desired, but no higher than their generation maximum. So unless the game reflects that, any permutation of Blood Buff is overpowered. Smile

Oh, I was wrong! I just checked this in the book, and it's a bit more powerful, though still not what it is in the game. Here's what the book says.

Vampire the Masquerade Revised, page 138, wrote:
A player may spend one blood point to increase a single Physical Attribute (Strength, Dexterity, Stamina) by one dot for the duration of the scene. The player must announce, at the beginning of the turn, that he is doing this. A player may spend as many blood points on increasing Physical Attributes as the vampire may use in a turn (based upon generation), but may only freely increase these Traits up to one higher than their generational maximum (i.e., a 10th-generation vampire may increase Traits to a maximum of 6). With effort, a character may increase a Physical Attribute to above even this limit, but each dot above the limit lasts for only three turns after the character stops spending blood. This enables vampires to perform truly amazing physical feats, such as throwing cars, moving preternaturally quickly and withstanding blows that would fell trees.

So I guess I've been using a really cheap house rule and screwing all of my players for some 10 years. Woops! *Facepalm!*

For the record, I do not want to know how V20 or Requiem changed this, as I'm sure they watered it down considerably.
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:29 pm

Voraxith wrote:

Oh, I was wrong! I just checked this in the book, and it's a bit more powerful, though still not what it is in the game. Here's what the book says.

Vampire the Masquerade Revised, page 138, wrote:
A player may spend one blood point to increase a single Physical Attribute (Strength, Dexterity, Stamina) by one dot for the duration of the scene. The player must announce, at the beginning of the turn, that he is doing this. A player may spend as many blood points on increasing Physical Attributes as the vampire may use in a turn (based upon generation), but may only freely increase these Traits up to one higher than their generational maximum (i.e., a 10th-generation vampire may increase Traits to a maximum of 6). With effort, a character may increase a Physical Attribute to above even this limit, but each dot above the limit lasts for only three turns after the character stops spending blood. This enables vampires to perform truly amazing physical feats, such as throwing cars, moving preternaturally quickly and withstanding blows that would fell trees.

So I guess I've been using a really cheap house rule and screwing all of my players for some 10 years. Woops! *Facepalm!*

For the record, I do not want to know how V20 or Requiem changed this, as I'm sure they watered it down considerably.

Its partially their fault if they didnt bother looking up the rules themselves. Its called internet - it takes just 10 minutes
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:21 am

VTMB =/= Pen and Paper.
Lots of differences, LOTS of them, because the engine, because everything couldn't allow us to play the video game as if it was pen and paper. Like VTES cards, disciplines are very different. For VTES, for instance, Thaumaturgy is a combat discipline.
Remember that, especially physical disciplines, they changed between editions SO much... you don't even know the truth anymore <_<
I mean, do you guys ever knew what was Celerity, and how Potence and Fortitude interacted with each other ? At least in that case, yeah, Requiem>Masquerade. The system is way better. But Masquerade has a certain soul... still the system is so wrong that each ST has to randomly adapt rules, get rid of some rules or change some details. Which is fine. And Bloodlines' makers are just that : STs that changed the rules for their game.

You shouldn't compare or rant about the differences between the game and the video game, they are just not the same creation. In Bloodlines, there is a Tremere antitribu in 2004, while the pen and paper had Gehenna happen that very same year (Tremere growing third eyes, Ventrue needing to feed on each other, Malkavian getting all merged into the MMN...). It's not even the same timeline as canon.. So rules, fuck that ! And we don't even speak about clan weaknesses >_>

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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:12 am

Claudia wrote:

So rules, fuck that ! And we don't even speak about clan weaknesses >_>


I want to get animal traits when I frenzy! lol! lol! lol!
That one is even worse made in Bloodlines than the Ventrue weakness... No bums and prostitutes? Only prostitutes I could understand. Or only people with green eyes. But not only sinners., in this game it would mean just about everyone. Laughing
Tremere clan weakness is really well portrayed, though. Ah, they have none, right. Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:32 am

Well the Tremere weakness from the 1st through revised pen and paper ed, is that they either are fully blood bounded to the inner council of seven and more ranked Tremere have an easier time dominating them.
For me, the blood bound is not a weakness per se. For me, the clan weakness of the Tremere is a social weakness. They are mistrusted all the time by other clans, in all cases, and are kept away as much as they could from most Kindred events. They are part of their clan, while other kindred could just as well not give a damn about their clan.
Couldn't portray that in Bloodlines, I guess <_<
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:15 pm

The only clan that really has their clan weakness portrayed correctly in Bloodlines is the Brujah; and that's because frenzy is built into the game mechanics. Even the Malkavian craziness only causes a few minor glitches during conversation, and that seems to be caused by the fact that they can't understand what you're saying. Hell, the first time I played a Malk, even I couldn't understand what I was saying sometimes, and I know English extremely well. Some would say the Nosferatu have their weakness done right, but if a Nos can run down the middle of the street uncloaked without causing a Masquerade violation, then something is wrong.

Claudia and the others are right; you can't expect Bloodlines to be exactly like the PnP game. That won't happen until we can have virtual avatars in real-time, with actions and expressions and body language that matches real life. Anyone see this happening any time soon? I don't. Especially now that the WODMMO has been postponed indefinitely. (See Planet-Vampire for details; I won't go into that here.)

I also think Claudia stated the real Tremere weakness very well. Nobody trusts them. "Don't let the Tremere get their hands on your blood" is a well-known adage, even among their 'allies'.
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:18 pm

PGM1961 wrote:
Especially now that the WODMMO has been postponed indefinitely. (See Planet-Vampire for details; I won't go into that here.)

Check PV? Is that supposed to be a joke? Kind of like saying "Invest in Enron"?
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:49 pm

The site works again...
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:34 pm

Claudia wrote:
The site works again...

Really? Must be a French thing, because it still doesn't come up for me. Something about a DNS error. I dunno.
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:56 pm

The french plot with their french fries! Run!

In related news, PV works here
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:38 pm

My link is also up again. If you still have problems, you can try planet-vampire.org instead of .com
They have both domaines now.

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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:50 pm

Well, your post made me check the website, and PV is down again. Their operation goes down more often than the Italian economy -- or a slutty cheerleader. Smile

Edit.: Checked it again, and it's up again. What is their issue?

To make a long story short, CCP has been losing money, since subscribers have been dropping EVE in protest due to certain changes, so they cut about 20% of their personnel (mostly in Atlanta, i.e. White Wolf), and said the World of Darkness MMO has been 'delayed'. That means put on hold until further notice, because they don't have the manpower to develop the game engine any further. Incarna (walking in stations) was to be a testing ground for the WOD engine, but they are still limited to sitting in your crappy captain's quarters, with no multiplayer interaction. EVE players were not happy.
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:08 am

Nope. Neither planet-vampire.com or planet-vampire.org are working for me. Grrr...

(Edit: I'm a dumbass. *Facepalm.* I took out the hyphen from the address in my bookmarks, and the site came up just fine. Go ahead: laugh at me, make fun of me; I deserve it. I am an idiot.)

Sucks to hear about CCP. I've really been looking forward to more good news on WoD. Damnit. I guess I'm still stuck with WoW and GTA -- but at least they finally announced V. Yay!


Last edited by Voraxith on Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:13 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I am stupid.)
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:54 am

Laughing Ok, Mr Dumbass, if you really need it, I will lol you right here and now: lol! lol! lol!

Shall I also bring out the cat o' nine tails and give you 20 lashes? pirat

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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:56 pm

(scribbles on notepad) That's 180 lashes!
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PostSubject: Re: Blood Buff and natural regeneration questions   Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:43 pm

PGM1961 wrote:
(scribbles on notepad) That's 180 lashes!

That is going to hurt...
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