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Shabutaro
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PostSubject: Passwords.. again!   Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:46 am

I know it was spoken about alot and i can hardly remember even me starting a thread about it, but i still want to make hacking more useful like lockpicking. My new idea and a question about it is: You can get passwords without using ctrl+c from like a note or a call, is it hard to change them? If not i would love to have a "password generator" which randomly exchanges the existing password files with new ones cuz as i started a new CQM char i was really surprised and kinda let down as i still knew all the passwords.. it is easy to change the password file itself, but you cant change the password "sunrise" to "kindred" when on the note still "sunrise" is written. So do you have to change whole hub files etc for the note to show "kindred" instead of sunrise? If it's not that hard i would kinda make the password files myself.. like 20 different passwords for each pc randomly thrown in as you start passwordgen.exe..
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:52 pm

Afaik, the passwords are in the file for the computer, so basically if you want to change this, you need a completely new file for the computer. That would increase the mod's size quite a bit, even though it's only plain text, that can be compressed a lot by the installer. For notes about the password, you'd have to do the same. One complete note for each possible password, and change it along with the hackterminal file.
If there are other hints, like the Imalia poster in Carson's, well that's a different matter. Then you have to get really creative...

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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:21 am

Ye i know about the computer files, changing them is easy. Size.. hmm maybe put an alternate download link for those who want this with an executable to randomize the passwords and restore to default.. Things like the Imalia poster.. i don't need to change that asap. I guess i will make one complete new terminal folder with changed passwords for those, who doesn't have another hint where u can only ctrl+c the pw and after that i will take a look where i find the other passwords.. ofc it will get really big if i need a whole new 40 MB file to change only 1 hint of a password.. maybe it will be doable with a search and replace like exe.. hmm lets see how far i can go at home tomorrow ^^
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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:40 am

If the passwords are to be found on a note, you can find them in the folder \vampire\vdata\signs
Can't find the file with the passcodes for the doors (Hannah's, blood bank freezer...) right now. I know I have seen them somewhere, but it may be on the map item, then dynamically changing them probably isn't possible.

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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:55 am

The codes for the doors didn't come to my mind to change, cuz for 1 u need new voice acting (6th skyline floor). If the passwords on a note are all found in \signs it will be a lot easier to modify them Smile As i am not at home today at all i can only look into the files tomorrow to give myself an overview.. but u can easy exchange the 2 folders with new ones so that will be possible, even if it will be big in size.. but hey, what don't you do for a game to make it more challenging again^^
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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:17 pm

Shabutaro wrote:
but hey, what don't you do for a game to make it more challenging again^^

You will make Zer0 one happy teddy...
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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:13 am

Feral wrote:
Shabutaro wrote:
but hey, what don't you do for a game to make it more challenging again^^

You will make Zer0 one happy teddy...

Well there were only 3 things i really hated about vtmb..
1.: Persuasion (need) > Seduction (blood) > Intimidation (worthless) [improved]
2.: Feats like Inspection, Haggle etc = useless [solved]
3.: Hacking = useless once you played through and remember all the passwords or looked at the files.. [unsolved]

Well i still could play like i don't know the passwords.. but i am too greedy to do that if i want some items/xp where i need a password.. i can't control myself than^^

Another solution which came to my mind is kinda impossible.. you have to at least hear the password once to be able to enter it without a required hacking feat, but if you know the password, but haven't got it ingame and u want to enter a lvl 5 hack required pc but only have 4 or minor, even if you enter the pw you don't get access to it cuz u never heard it before.. well it's impossible so throw the idea away^^
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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:30 pm

Shabutaro wrote:

Another solution which came to my mind is kinda impossible.. you have to at least hear the password once to be able to enter it without a required hacking feat, but if you know the password, but haven't got it ingame and u want to enter a lvl 5 hack required pc but only have 4 or minor, even if you enter the pw you don't get access to it cuz u never heard it before.. well it's impossible so throw the idea away^^

I think it happens with the fridge room doors in the bloodbank. You need to computer/orderly first then type 1969. Otherwise you get error message and the doors stay closed.
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Maxus Corvin
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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:22 pm

Feral wrote:
Shabutaro wrote:

Another solution which came to my mind is kinda impossible.. you have to at least hear the password once to be able to enter it without a required hacking feat, but if you know the password, but haven't got it ingame and u want to enter a lvl 5 hack required pc but only have 4 or minor, even if you enter the pw you don't get access to it cuz u never heard it before.. well it's impossible so throw the idea away^^

I think it happens with the fridge room doors in the bloodbank. You need to computer/orderly first then type 1969. Otherwise you get error message and the doors stay closed.

The reason for that, would be learning of the password gives you a quest update, and the computer file only has the password work if the quest is at a certain state. The same goes for Jezabel's part of the plaguebearer quests, the password for the sick girl's door only working if you heard the tape in apt 5.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:09 am

That's right. But afaik, it only works for these number pads at doors, not for normal computer terminals.

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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:28 pm

Shabutaro wrote:


Well there were only 3 things i really hated about vtmb..
1.: Persuasion (need) > Seduction (blood) > Intimidation (worthless) [improved]
2.: Feats like Inspection, Haggle etc = useless [solved]
3.: Hacking = useless once you played through and remember all the passwords or looked at the files.. [unsolved]

I would have to agree with this, 1, 2, and 3. My suggestion for password changing is this. I would like to go through all of the door and computer passwords in the game and change any that don't get referenced by audio. Meaning if someone either says the password or mentions something like "Come on Phil, the year we landed on the moon, oh right it's 1969.", then we can change it.

After all of these are identified I would like to change ALL of them for TFN, but I'd like to take it a step further. I would like to create small "add-on" patches that literally just change the passwords to something else for the whole game. So you would download TFN normally, install it, but then you could download one of the alternate password patches that change the passwords in the game to something else. The packs would be relatively easy to make and I'd like to release 5 of them or so. So though they aren't technically random, you would still have 5 play-throughs of the game with different passwords each time. And if you want, you could overwrite the last patch with one where you forgot the passwords. I mean you couldn't memorize all 5 alternate password configurations, could you?
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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:51 am

Zer0, if you intend to do something like this, keep in mind that some passwords are refernced in more than one place. For example you can find the passkey to lily in Phil's dialog. If you kill him, he'll drop a note. And it's on the computer next door.

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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:11 am

Zer0Morph wrote:
Shabutaro wrote:


Well there were only 3 things i really hated about vtmb..
1.: Persuasion (need) > Seduction (blood) > Intimidation (worthless) [improved]
2.: Feats like Inspection, Haggle etc = useless [solved]
3.: Hacking = useless once you played through and remember all the passwords or looked at the files.. [unsolved]

I would have to agree with this, 1, 2, and 3. My suggestion for password changing is this. I would like to go through all of the door and computer passwords in the game and change any that don't get referenced by audio. Meaning if someone either says the password or mentions something like "Come on Phil, the year we landed on the moon, oh right it's 1969.", then we can change it.

After all of these are identified I would like to change ALL of them for TFN, but I'd like to take it a step further. I would like to create small "add-on" patches that literally just change the passwords to something else for the whole game. So you would download TFN normally, install it, but then you could download one of the alternate password patches that change the passwords in the game to something else. The packs would be relatively easy to make and I'd like to release 5 of them or so. So though they aren't technically random, you would still have 5 play-throughs of the game with different passwords each time. And if you want, you could overwrite the last patch with one where you forgot the passwords. I mean you couldn't memorize all 5 alternate password configurations, could you?

Basically this is exactly what i want Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:34 pm

If you decide to change the password can you please try to preserve the feeling of bloodlines? What I mean is that most of the passwords are connected to the characters. I've always found it amusing that the password to my pc is sunrise. So please try not to violate the character-password relations.
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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:37 pm

Shabutaro wrote:


Basically this is exactly what i want Smile

Sweet!

YamiRaziel wrote:
If you decide to change the password can you please try to preserve the feeling of bloodlines? What I mean is that most of the passwords are connected to the characters. I've always found it amusing that the password to my pc is sunrise. So please try not to violate the character-password relations.

I could always just change the way they are spelled. Like sunrise could be sunr1se, $unrise, sunris3, etc.... Or just make a group of randomly generated numbers, now that would be damn near impossible to memorize.
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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:46 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Shabutaro wrote:


Basically this is exactly what i want Smile

Sweet!

YamiRaziel wrote:
If you decide to change the password can you please try to preserve the feeling of bloodlines? What I mean is that most of the passwords are connected to the characters. I've always found it amusing that the password to my pc is sunrise. So please try not to violate the character-password relations.

I could always just change the way they are spelled. Like sunrise could be sunr1se, $unrise, sunris3, etc.... Or just make a group of randomly generated numbers, now that would be damn near impossible to memorize.

Not the worst idea, but I'd say keep the general theme of the passwords, and go for related words. For the PC's computer, all of them could be terms referring to the sun/day/light, etc. Such as...

Sunlight
Dawn
Morning

The same would go for others.
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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:49 pm

Okay I see what you mean. Like I did when I remade some of the SM passwords like "University" and "dodgers".
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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:35 am

I don't know if it's possible to change all passwords to related things (like paige, panacea, ...) but changing them from "sunrise" to "sunri1se" "$unrise" "sunris3" etc won't do much.. cuz you don't have to remember a new password at all.. best thing is i guess makeing a list of all passwords and let the community help find good passwords Wink

//edit: here is the list of the passwords, feel free to add possible passwords, but please in another color for better reading (example: Haven - Email: sunrise, risingsun, beginnigoftheday ).

Spoiler:
 

//edit2: Maybe the idea with random numbers is an extra for hardcore wanna-password-change guys like me^^ instead of sunrise its 459733165794300216 or something, you will never be able to memorize them Very Happy this will be good for those who want new passwords but can't resist to look them up or something ^^
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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:47 am

I don't think that the idea with the numbers is a good one. It just won't look good. Besides I'm not really sure if in 2003 this annoying "l33t" way of spelling was so popular.
Maxus Corvin's idea, however, is probably the best way to handle this. So let's try to find the best words for passwords and maybe we should give some vote for the best ones.

My suggestions are:
Haven - Email: Sunrise 1. Aurora ; 2. Dawn ; 3. Daybreak ; 4. Morning
Jeanette's Laptop - Contacts: Callme 1. Wantme 2. Findme
Email: wishes 1. dream 2. pleasure 3. wish
Therese's Desktop - business Contacts: 1. Enterprise 2. Contracts 3. Career
Email: 1baroness3 1. Empress 2. Baroness 3. Countess 4. Queen 5. Princess

I may try to add more later but I don't really remember what was in some of the emails. We need more context-related passwords Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:05 am

Right, the feel must be kept.
For the player's computer I don't see any need to change the password at all. I don't even know why there is a hacking feat of 5 needed to hack into your own computer.

For Carson, Imalia must of course be in it in some way. No matter what else you do. <3 or something similar can be added, but at the core it has to stay Imalia.
And if you want to change the password of the CS cabinet where the werewolf blood is stored, you also have to change the name of Malcolms affair accordingly (it is the name of his dirty little secret after all...). That means changing his emails, and changing the dialog...

So while generally, changing passwords is a good idea, it can cause a wide range of other things you have to think about, depending on the password itself, and the clues to get it without the hacking skill.

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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:34 pm

Just so you know, today I have written a nice little python function that allows to randomly change the passwords. Not for email, but at least for the other subdirectories and functions.
Of course this still leaves the necessity of the other things discussed on this topic, like staying in tune with the game and the owner of the computer, checking for hints on the password...

The upside is, I found a way of programming it so that it's hard to discern a pattern for the other computers in the game, if you have hacked one or two. And I only need to set one global variable.
Downside is, that the hacktem files geet larger, because for every password I have to make a copy of the whole subdirectory/function.

So now for example in the clinic mourge computer, when you look up Virgil Crumb, the password can be the usual cowbell. In another game, it might be something like "pushing daisies" or whatever.

First tests show that it seems to work, so if you have any good ideas what passwords to use on different pcs, feel free to suggest them here. Oh, one thing, passwords must be 14 letters max, and can't include " or // as that will break the file.

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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:34 am

It does work. I can make random passwords for all subdirectories/functions, except for email.
So I took the liberty of making some more changes on Malcolms computer. Now you have to do a little hacking to find the email address of his wife, which is needed for blackmailing the nice doctor. I also expanded the patients directory. Now it gets updated when you ghoul Heather or let her die.

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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:30 pm

You're ing genius.

(but are tips on passwords going to follow the randomizer or will all those papers become worthless ?)
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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:41 am

For now, I have only worked on computers that don't have told or written tips for the password. I'm not sure how difficult it will be to switch the papers. If that can be done, making them follow the randomizer won't be that hard.

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PostSubject: Re: Passwords.. again!   Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:56 am

Next test-step completed: hint notes can easily be changed along with the password randomizer.
I can also use different probabilities for the passwords.

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