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 Diablerie

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Kuma
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PostSubject: Diablerie   Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:47 pm

Something new, certain bosses (Andrei, the sheriff, and other important vampiric entities (or non important if you so choose) can be diablerized. Twisted Evil A repeatable quest with a email trigger teaches you about diablerie and you may or may not choose to indulge yourself. A few bonuses could come off of this like buffed health for a bit, experience points, (linked to a reatable quests with multiple objectives, all of them the same thing, diablerize someone), quest rewards from some people or vampires. Whatever way you decide this to happen this can open new quests implemented in TFN 1.2 or above and close off others. (I doubt Max will be happy to learn his neonate is stealing powers like this) Or the ability can be added through a history like Tremere's infernal.
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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:51 pm

Let's hear some input from the board on this. I'm interested to hear some opinions.
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Karavolos
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:49 am

I personally like the idea, but wouldn't the Camarilla rip you apart and impale your bodyparts in 5 different locations across the world if they found out about it?
Which they probably would seeing as how the PC is being watched by both Lacroix, Jack and probably the Kuei-jin later on as well.
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Dragatus
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:11 am

IMO it sounds like implementing it would be more effort than it's worth. If it does get implemented there should be a serious price to pay.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:12 am

Dragatus wrote:
IMO it sounds like implementing it would be more effort than it's worth. If it does get implemented there should be a serious price to pay.

What kind of price are we talking about here?
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:14 am

Non-retrievable humanity loss, kindred treating you like scum - at least those with Auspex...
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:18 am

Jad.3 wrote:
Non-retrievable humanity loss, kindred treating you like scum - at least those with Auspex...

So for example if you commit diablrie once you will never be able to reach full humanity in a similar manner as how Tremere in vanilla can't reach full strength/dexterity/stamina?

However if that is the case then the effects of diablrie would prolly need to be permanent 'lest the function becomes useless when the cons outweight the pros. Especially bearing in mind that if you reach 0 humanity you lose the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:22 am

Karavolos wrote:
Dragatus wrote:
IMO it sounds like implementing it would be more effort than it's worth. If it does get implemented there should be a serious price to pay.

What kind of price are we talking about here?

I haven't thought it through exactly what the price should be. I just don't want diablerie to be something that gives you a bunch of free stats without any real cost.

Besides, the player already seems to be 8th generation (bloodpool max is 15). So if you lower your generation any further it should allow you to increase traits to 6, which is something the game engine wasn't designed to support. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:26 am

Dragatus wrote:
I haven't thought it through exactly what the price should be. I just don't want diablerie to be something that gives you a bunch of free stats without any real cost.

True that, I agree.

Dragatus wrote:
Besides, the player already seems to be 8th generation (bloodpool max is 15). So if you lower your generation any further it should allow you to increase traits to 6, which is something the game engine wasn't designed to support. Wink

Supposedly, but it could grant another discipline or some such thing.
If I recall Burgermeister managed to pull that off in his Clan Quest mod, admittively through a quest where he could ensure that the reward didn't overlap with something else but maybe there is a way to code it differently for each clan?
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:41 am

Getting a new discipline isn't technically very hard.
But as already stated somewhere else in this topic, the pc is closely observed by quite a number of importand, and strong, Vampires. And I doubt that any of them, except perhaps for Andrei, would let you get away with it. Certainly not prince priss or Strauss. And I doubt that Isaak, Jack, or Nines would be very tolerant if they found out about a diablerizer.

- geek

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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:57 am

Maybe this diablerie should lead to a brand new Sabbat ending! Maybe Andrei will give you some quests to go and kill Max, Nines, Lacroix, Kue-Jin and in the end you will decide to finish him too end take his place Smile

Ah...dreams, dreams...
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Kuma
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:27 pm

I like what's been going on here, but I don't think absorbing a guy who's been abducting people and turning them into abominations would result in a humanity loss. Now doing that to Pisha or Maxxie would result in irretrievable humanity loss. But I thought that no matter what Assamites always had the aura of a diablerizer. Is this incorrect? Of course if you do absorb strauss then his ending should be unplayable if you don't then a the same as the kuie-jin ending only with Strauss instead of Ming. Now a Sabbat ending would be cool. A new NPC and an entire new questline would need to be just pulled out of somewhere.
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TheRedHeadGamer
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:56 am

Diablerie always results in humanity loss, who you do it on doesn't matter because what your doing is a pretty evil thing, when someone does diablerie they absorb their victim's soul into their own body and prevent that soul from passing on, for assamites there are three castes each with their own weakness, the warrior caste is the one with the diablerie stained aura even if they haven't done it.

Anyway for diablerie in the game I,d actually enjoy it, I,ve always loved being the low humanity jerk (Sabbat ftw !) and it could be implemented and the penaltys about it such as being hunted avoided, Now this is going to sound pretty lame but when you look at the Pc he already seems like a powergame character low generation, Iron will, etc So who's to say that the Pc doesn't have the hidden diablerie merit ?, And if it's a assamite character who picked the Path of the warrior (I think its talented but im not sure) Then heck I could see it being pulled off pretty well, Maybe even have some High humanity vampires act a little creepy around the Pc if they have comitted it, but not know why they do.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:08 am

I like Gamer's idea of how it could work.

He also makes a point on the PC's power and abilities.
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Jad.3
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:03 am

Kuma said: "I don't think that when a cop eats flesh of a child molester after apprehending him is something bad."
And proper explanation for those guys in the back: It is not about the villain, it's about you: And eating someone alive is pretty fucked up thing.

Assamites and others on the Path of Blood have it justified: They are the judges, absorbing the unworthy in preparation for Haquims return (that's why Assamites turn black, the evil absorbed manifests).

Anyway, as much as I'd enjoy cannibalism, the game is not set up for it. Complete overhaul to play as Sabbat and it would be juicy, but no eating friends among the Camarilla! And in the Camarilla we are all friends, remember! (I would love to see Ecaterina instead of Nines though Smile )


Last edited by Jad.3 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cyberghost
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:57 pm

This Diablerie topic gave me some idea...ofc I don't know what can be done and what can't, so ill just spill it out.

Quest, that triggers a down-spiral line for your character.
You get quest, where someone is trying to talk or trick you into Diablerie. Trough it you get messages & hints from here and there about the cost's of such actions, but there's the other side that tries to talk you into it. (Since alot want you dead wouldn't be surprising that someone is trying to push you into crap using your ''freshness'') So in the ending of a quest you get 2 objectives, to commit Diablerie or no.
If your character doesn't fall for it, the storyline continues normally.

If your character does it, than it triggers blood hunt. Like every town now is full with vampires that attack your character. Every Elysiums now is a fighting zone. Masquerade violation doesn't kill you anymore. All the doors are open. Kuei-jin, LaCroix, Whoever is to kill, you can go and kill. Except that usual endings are not possible anymore. Your char just goes into ''Kill or die'' Position.
& let's make it as tragic ending where you get pushed in by making one wrong choice. Instead of other ending's Char would get the ''Permanent frenzy'' at the end. Wassail if i know correctly.
Was mindless, had your fun & now you're lost for ever ever ever bounce

At least If I would get something like that and wouldn't know the scenario I would be shocked
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Jad.3
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:22 pm

Actually, there is something about that idea. But I would not make it so transparent a you-are-doomed-situation. Instead, in case of commiting a diablerie, I would disable all but Kuei Jin ending.
Now only to engraft it onto the blood hunt situation. Perhaps someone, a ghoul of Lacroix? talking you into feasting on Nines, then werewolf part, then cabbie (since Jack would dust you immediately) drives you home, then blood hunt..?
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:23 pm

Jad.3 wrote:
Kuma said: "I don't think that when a cop eats flesh of a child molester after apprehending him is something bad."
And proper explanation for those guys in the back: It is not about the villain, it's about you: And eating someone alive is pretty fucked up thing.

Agreed. Only don't try to convince Pisha. lol!

Jad.3 wrote:

Assamites and others on the Path of Blood have it justified: They are the judges, absorbing the unworthy in preparation for Haquims return (that's why Assamites turn black, the evil absorbed manifests).

Where exactly have you found that explanation? I was always curious... That could also explain why Al-Ashrad is still pretty much white. Well, as far as white goes for a guy from Iran Laughing Honorable sorcerer he may be, his aura shines and whirls with shards of magic anyway (Sorcerer Caste weakness)

Jad.3 wrote:

Anyway, as much as I'd enjoy cannibalism, the game is not set up for it. Complete overhaul to play as Sabbat and it would be juicy, but no eating friends among the Camarilla! And in the Camarilla we are all friends, remember! (I would love to see Ecaterina instead of Nines though Smile )

Oh yes, Ecaterina the Wise... Or Caterina Wiese, Ancilae of the Camarilla, as she is known now. I would like to see her again, too. In Redemption, I really could go in-character and think of her as my Sire. She was so much better than LaCroix... He is only good to hate.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:31 pm

Feral wrote:

Jad.3 wrote:

Assamites and others on the Path of Blood have it justified: They are the judges, absorbing the unworthy in preparation for Haquims return (that's why Assamites turn black, the evil absorbed manifests).

Where exactly have you found that explanation? I was always curious... That could also explain why Al-Ashrad is still pretty much white. Well, as far as white goes for a guy from Iran Laughing Honorable sorcerer he may be, his aura shines and whirls with shards of magic anyway (Sorcerer Caste weakness)
Somewhere Rolling Eyes Well it's not that exactly. They hoard blood for Haquims return, so he won't eat them (haven't Claudia mention that recently?); when contracted, they often kill even the paying side - they are the judges of other vampires, and if they don't like you... A bit similar to the followers of Path of Orion.
Assamites grow pale after the embrace, like other cainites. After a year or two, they start to grow dark, they look human for a while, then turning black after about five years. That evil manifesting etc.
Dunno much about Ashrad, he's a freak of nature Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:42 pm

Jad.3 wrote:
Actually, there is something about that idea. But I would not make it so transparent a you-are-doomed-situation. Instead, in case of commiting a diablerie, I would disable all but Kuei Jin ending.
Now only to engraft it onto the blood hunt situation. Perhaps someone, a ghoul of Lacroix? talking you into feasting on Nines, then werewolf part, then cabbie (since Jack would dust you immediately) drives you home, then blood hunt..?

Good thinking, and Cyberghost too. Thanks for the explanation...
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TheRedHeadGamer
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:30 pm

Jad.3 wrote:

Assamites and others on the Path of Blood have it justified: They are the judges, absorbing the unworthy in preparation for Haquims return (that's why Assamites turn black, the evil absorbed manifests).

The explanation I heard about the Assamites growing darker was because it made it easier to blend in with the shadows, so they could become better assassins, Gonna go have to hunt down the reason now lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:56 am

Okay, I don't have much time, but I'll say a huge NO to the idea of allowing PC to diablerize.

Why no ?
Because the mere fact of surviving a diablerie is so low that it would fuck up the entire game. There is a reason why diablerie is not committed every other night : it's fucking dangerous !
Add in that the fact that any Kindred with Auspex 2 (all Toreador, Tremere and Malkavian of the game) will know you have diablerized... -> if you survived the action of diablerie, then you won't survive what comes after.

I don't think Diablerie has its place in Bloodlines. As well as non-humanity paths.

(I do think a Sabbat ending would be cool, I've been discussing that with BG01)
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:03 am

"Surviving a diablerie"??? Why? The only danger I see is in case of great generational differece.

Non-Humanity Paths would make Bloodlines a completely new game... As in different game. As in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines 2. Oooooh...
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:07 am

I may need to reread the system, but Diablerie asks for a bunch of ridiculously difficult rolls just to be able to drain and eat the victim, then a bunch of other rolls to kill the soul of the victim, and lots of other rolls before and after to keep "sane" (a.k.a. in control) because of the horrific act.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie   Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:58 am

Not that ridiculous rolls to drain the heartblood, if you manage to hold the victim down; then it can change your demeanor and nature, and in addition, if the victims will is strong and generation low, it can take over your body (AKA don't be stupid, don't drain Saulot!). I don't see why would I struggle for my sanity when I'm on the Path of Cathari, something inhuman...
Well, re-read, let us know.
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