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 Debrief 1.1

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Xoudii
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PostSubject: Debrief 1.1   Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:48 pm

i post this in the "idea post", because it is more an suggest post than an "ask question" stuff.

I'll try to be the more objectif and "naif"as i can:

First, rly good mod, all the stuff around the core system (haggle, doll, hunter, blood, weapon, ...) are realy awsome!
Honestly after the end of my Samedi campaign i start to desistall / reinstall the game to go back into the clan mod 3.0. But during the installation, was thinking about all the good stuff you made ( Mass pedestrian!!) and finaly i'm on my way to reinstall FN 1.1 (Final Nights Claudia, not Front National 1.1 Wink )

So, let's get to the negative point ( I repeat all the stuff around the core system are rly rly goood! i think you know all the good part):
The Rp stuff:
i just finished the game with an Samedi toon (maybe it is not the same with a Baali and the original quest) and, it need something, a lore stuff.
I mean, ok you make the choice of independant clan / bloodline. it's ok, and the armr skin are rly good,, but there is nothing aboutwhy. I mean, you are an Samedi, surrounding by anarch and Camarilla stuff, why are you there?!!!! I think it will be good to have an email (because i know it's hard to have an good voice acting ) from an older of your clan than tell you that your Sire was here to study the Camarilla organisation, and so, you have to continu his/ her job. Something to explain why an independant Clan is working for the camarilla.

Because, all the core's work is real good, i can't imagine returning in an other version (without hunter and damage stuff. without all the humanity/ mascarade difficult) but, it missed something. the independant clan / bloodline are just like an "cheveu sur la soupe" (dunno who to translate this).

In my own opinion, at this stade, the best mod for VTMB is a mixte of the Clan mod quest (all the stuff around the lore of the camarilla clan) and your core game. It missed something about the independant clan (why are they here, why toleretae them, who was the sire, etc.)

Quick translate in french for claudia: j'adore réellement ce mod, mais il manque vraiment quelque chose qui implique le joueur et son clan. On est les seuls de ce clan de tout LA, il faut un peu plus de matière. J'ai fait toute la campagne avec un samedi à attendre une explication de la présence de mon sir à L.A. il ne manque vraiment que cet aspect. Ils ont déjà choisit un choix restrictif et peu familié de l'ensemble des joueur du JDR, mais si en + il y a peu d'info RP sur ces clan, c'est contre immersif) c'est vraiment le seul défaut du jeu. L'impression d'avoir joué à un mod qui à copié/ collé les thématiques de clan et c'est tout. Alors que tout le taff sur l'ambiance et la difficulté est énorme!
je ne sais pas si j’étais claire dans la langue de Shakespeare.

well, to resume:
More stuff about why your clan is here.
A little quest to give an advice about your choice at the end (you have to work tp be in good position with the camarilla to help the clan about drug dealing (seth) or just grab the more information you can (Ishtari), or just have to make an exemple with the Giovani from the kindered(Samedi), etc....

Because Akeem tell you something about your clan and it's all. A spy quest, like what you are doing with the Anarch (if you made that choice) will be more "immersif".

if uou are limited in quest, the tatoo's shop masacarde stuff is useless, Reed's gang and the doublework with akeem could been thrown away and, t¸you need a little rp advice to choose your part at the end.



But i repeat, it's a freakin fraking mod! you just need to add more lore (independant) stuff.
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UncleCruncle
Ancillae
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PostSubject: Re: Debrief 1.1   Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:49 am

Touché! Couldn't agree more.
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Karavolos
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PostSubject: Re: Debrief 1.1   Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:39 am

Brilliance in a can.

We still need a can though.
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Jad.3
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PostSubject: Re: Debrief 1.1   Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:59 am

Xoudii wrote:
I mean, ok you make the choice of independant clan / bloodline. it's ok, and the armr skin are rly good,, but there is nothing aboutwhy. I mean, you are an Samedi, surrounding by anarch and Camarilla stuff, why are you there?!!!!
It happens. See "Lithrac".
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Xoudii
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PostSubject: Re: Debrief 1.1   Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:46 am

ok, because it's better to try to find solution than just make criticisms

Some ideas about lore quests:

Samedi:

NPC in the cemetery with the skin of zombie girl (the one completely in decay, with the head down).
She is a Samedi who is supposed to find and kill Bruno Giovani, but is too coward. She gives you the task, in exchange, she will deal with the walking dead invasion from romero's quest (like using a massive Thanatos spell lvl 5 Wink )

About the voice acting, I think you could just use the zombie moaning, and make the PC answering like he is understand. She could be too decay and lost her tongue Wink
Or use the animation where she scratch the ground, she is writing to communicate with you.

Ishtari:

Understand that they are "the information dealer" in Laibon. So they could have a mission to spy the Nosferatu.
Receive an email from an other Ishtari, you have to help Mitnik (not sure about the name, the Nosphe who ask you to hacking some computers around the hubs) and upload a spy virus in the same way.

No creation, just have to add an email from the Ishtari, and an entry in the computers of the quests.

Assamite

Can "rehab" the quest where you have to kill Skelter at the Pier. Or hide your identity and become a confident of Strauss, and have to kill him when he will be outside his haven.

just have to mixte the cinematics of the Camarilla and Anarch ending. Backstab Strauss and then let Lacroix discover Jack's gift.

T

Salubri

Hidden quest, "just" have to raise 10 in humanity. Could have a symbolic permanant buff (bonus in charisma and appearance?) while you keep that score.

Seth

The best thing would be to be able to change the script of the Venus s quest.
Have to kill and replace Boris, to be at the head of the local Mafia! Wink
Getting new haven in the Empire hotel, some ghouls bodygard, chicks, etc... the Mafia stuff Wink
The Bouncer is now your new "Venus" who gives you the money each nights.


No idea about Baali and Osebo.

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Dragatus
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PostSubject: Re: Debrief 1.1   Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:26 pm

The Baali is already pretending to be a Tremere.
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Claudia
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PostSubject: Re: Debrief 1.1   Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:58 pm

"j'adore réellement ce mod, mais il manque vraiment quelque chose qui implique le joueur et son clan. On est les seuls de ce clan de tout LA, il faut un peu plus de matière. J'ai fait toute la campagne avec un samedi à attendre une explication de la présence de mon sir à L.A. il ne manque vraiment que cet aspect. Ils ont déjà choisit un choix restrictif et peu familié de l'ensemble des joueur du JDR, mais si en + il y a peu d'info RP sur ces clan, c'est contre immersif) c'est vraiment le seul défaut du jeu. L'impression d'avoir joué à un mod qui à copié/ collé les thématiques de clan et c'est tout. Alors que tout le taff sur l'ambiance et la difficulté est énorme!
je ne sais pas si j’étais claire dans la langue de Shakespeare."


Bon je vais pas corriger ton français hein Very Happy


"I really love this mod but it seems it lacks something to make the player and his character feel "as being part of it". We are the only one of said bloodline in all LA, so it lacks some.. glue. I did the whole game with a Samedi hoping someone would explain me why my sire was here to begin with ; this is the only thing that's lacking. They did a very restrictive and odd choice for any RPG player, but it lacks some RP explanation about the clans and it doesn't help our immersion. This gave me the impression of having played a copy/pasted mod on the thematics of all clans, and that's all, while all the work on the ambiance, the difficulty [and the systems too !] is so amazing.
I don't know if I was clear enough in Shakespeare's language"



There Smile
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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: Debrief 1.1   Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:57 pm

Excellent posts and thanks for the translation Claudia! I understand what Xoudii is saying and I'm inclined to agree. This post could set me on a new path for TFN 1.2 in making it more Lore-esque like CQM did for the CE side.

I will keep this in mind. study
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kyoden
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PostSubject: Re: Debrief 1.1   Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:24 am

If I may hi-jack this post.

I really love this mod and still see alot of potential ofr the game.
I talked to a customer in our gaming shop lately (how awesome TFN is, that he should DL it, etc) and he said that while he actually liked the base game (unofficial patch) all the major quests where combat oriented. And I had to agree. Of course not every major quest should have alternate ways instead of combating, but a few would be nice.

Do you think that this is doable (even if you have very hard requirements)'?
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UncleCruncle
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PostSubject: Re: Debrief 1.1   Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:17 am

kyoden wrote:
If I may hi-jack this post.

I really love this mod and still see alot of potential ofr the game.
I talked to a customer in our gaming shop lately (how awesome TFN is, that he should DL it, etc) and he said that while he actually liked the base game (unofficial patch) all the major quests where combat oriented. And I had to agree. Of course not every major quest should have alternate ways instead of combating, but a few would be nice.

Do you think that this is doable (even if you have very hard requirements)'?

I don't agree, I can give you 10 + more examples where one can complete a major quest without any combat at all and sometimes getting more benefits from it.
Here are some examples where you don't have to get all medieval on their hides:

- Retrieving the Astrolite
- Retrieving the pendant from the Haunted Hotel
- Santa Monica warehouse
- Elizabeth Dane
- Museum
- Griffin Park (don't fight the papa wolf be smarter than him)
- Make it in one piece from SM Heaven down to the taxi cab later in game.

And there are secondary quests too where you can avoid getting blood stained.

God this game is perfect it doesn't need anything more than a holy son of a mother epic sequel! cheers



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Uriel
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PostSubject: Re: Debrief 1.1   Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:04 pm

Well, I actually agree with this as well, but then we could submit into Saulot's post of 'Clan Quest Mods for TFN?', where a few ideas on the different Independent Clans/Bloodlines have been proposed (one is mine, and I hope Zer0 can ever read it and give his opinion about it)  sunny study 
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Debrief 1.1   Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:09 am

UncleCruncle wrote:
kyoden wrote:
...Of course not every major quest should have alternate ways instead of combating, but a few would be nice.

Do you think that this is doable (even if you have very hard requirements)'?

I don't agree, I can give you 10 + more examples where one can complete a major quest without any combat at all and sometimes getting more benefits from it.
Here are some examples where you don't have to get all medieval on their hides:

- Retrieving the Astrolite
- Retrieving the pendant from the Haunted Hotel
- Santa Monica warehouse
- Elizabeth Dane
- Museum
- Griffin Park (don't fight the papa wolf be smarter than him)
- Make it in one piece from SM Heaven down to the taxi cab later in game.

And there are secondary quests too where you can avoid getting blood stained.

God this game is perfect it doesn't need anything more than a holy son of a mother epic sequel!  cheers



I have to disagre on the warehouse quest. When you blow up the damned building, what do you think happens to the guys inside?
But to add to your list, you can even navigate most of the warrens without having to kill everything.


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Claudia
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PostSubject: Re: Debrief 1.1   Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:12 am

I always do the Warrens and the Warehouse on "No see mode" (aka nobody sees me). Special xp ^^
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Debrief 1.1   Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:12 am

Claudia wrote:
I always do the Warrens and the Warehouse on "No see mode" (aka nobody sees me). Special xp ^^
Then there are things about the game even I as a modder don't know. I know of the "no see" bonus for the warehouse and the parking garage. For the warrens as well?

geek 

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Claudia
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PostSubject: Re: Debrief 1.1   Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:20 am

Not in the warrens sadly >_> because there are at least two mobs you can't avoid : first it guy and first spider woman

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