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Claudia
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:18 pm

There are higher levels of thaumaturgy available to lower generations (7th opens level 6, 6th opens level 7...)
There are higher levels of all disciplines too !
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:23 pm

Dafuq? I know there used to be Thaumaturgy like a disc., and then paths, but now it's just the paths...
Am I wrong?
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Claudia
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:48 pm

Paths = discipline

Technically, Path of Blood is your basic path and determines your score in Thaumaturgy's base (you advance your Thaumaturgy level by practicing your main path). You then develop other paths as you study further...

Rituals are not in the discipline sheet, but on the others sheets which lists them (as well as your weapons, boons, blood bounds, allies, contacts and all that)
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:38 pm

Feral wrote:
Childe of Malkav wrote:
Always remember: the plural of "wizard" is "war"

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Pratchett?
WHO ELSE?

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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:15 pm

Claudia wrote:
Paths = discipline

Technically, Path of Blood is your basic path and determines your score in Thaumaturgy's base (you advance your Thaumaturgy level by practicing your main path). You then develop other paths as you study further...

Rituals are not in the discipline sheet, but on the others sheets which lists them (as well as your weapons, boons, blood bounds, allies, contacts and all that)
Simple question then: what is the Path of Blood 6? You know, the one after the cauldron?
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:26 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Feral wrote:
Childe of Malkav wrote:
Always remember: the plural of "wizard" is "war"

- geek

Pratchett?
WHO ELSE?

- geek

Don't get so excited, man. I'm not to much into popular culture. I like biology though. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:33 am

Jad.3 wrote:

Simple question then: what is the Path of Blood 6? You know, the one after the cauldron?

There is no Path of Blood 6. From the rulebook:

Quote :
When a character first learns Thaumaturgy, the player selects a path for the character. That path is considered the character's primary path, and she automatically receives one dot in it, as well as one Level One ritual. Thereafter, whenever the character increases her level in Thaumaturgy, her score in the primary path increases by one as well. Rituals are learned separately, as part of a story; players need not pay experience points for their characters to learn rituals, though they must find someone to teach the rituals in question.

Path ratings never exceed Level Five, though the overall Thaumaturgy score may (higher levels of Disciplines will be
covered in future products ).If a character reaches Level Five in her primary path and increases her Thaumaturgy score
afferward, she may allocate her "free" path dot to a different path. Thaumaturges may create their own paths (through player and Storyteller collaboration) once they achieve the sixth level of Thaumaturgy.

Path of Blood is not always the primary path, it's just by far the most common. But theoretically any path could be your primary path. And there are so many of them to chose from.
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Jad.3
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:12 pm

Dragatus wrote:
Path of Blood is not always the primary path, it's just by far the most common. But theoretically any path could be your primary path. And there are so many of them to chose from.


Does anybody know an answer to the question, how rituals level 6+ fit into 5-dots Thaumaturgy system?
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:20 pm

Does anybody know an answer to the question, how rituals level 6+ fit into 5-dots Thaumaturgy system?


Claudia wrote:
There are higher levels of thaumaturgy available to lower generations (7th opens level 6, 6th opens level 7...)
There are higher levels of all disciplines too !


AKA rituals level 6 need thaumaturgy level 6
Paths beyond level 5 are "customized" to the character. Like when in second edition, any level over 5 of any discipline gave a special power (like, in Chicago by night... "Helena's extra dot in Presence.." etc)
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:24 pm

Seems to me like a mess in editions. What's the last ed. of Masquerade?
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:29 pm

V20
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:39 pm

That an edition, or just a collection?
Advanced disciplines other than T. are well described, most up to level 10... Thauma? Nay. And never was I guess.


(Thanks, btw.)
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:51 pm

Thaumaturgy's "core" discipline is a studied one, not "innate powers" like all other disciplines. Paths don't generally have powers over level 5 because over level 5, it's the Thaumaturge that uses his knowledge and theories to create his own effects. You can't teach someone with a triple PHD in that field. Thaumaturgy is, by all means, "magic" as understood in Mage the Ascension (and in Ars Magica, the game where the Tremere come from). This is why there are no higher levels of the paths, it's because if you're old enough to be a lower generation, and spend enough centuries studying the damn thing... well, it's stuff you discover on your own and the uses you do yourself. Paths are versatile, but rituals aren't. There are tomes on rituals because they ask for specific stuff to happen, to have one specific result.


Most of the time, Path of Blood is the basic path chosen by all Tremere since it's what their teachers chose to teach them first, since it's the Tremere's usefulness to the clan to be able to test other's mights, to understand their own blood, the blood of others.. I mean, blood matters only !
(there's also a historical reason which is that it's how the clan came to being to begin with, and since we're talking pyramidal training, "it's just how we do stuff you know" ; you just don't pick randomly your paths, this isn't dungeons :p I mean, you gotta have a masters in medecine before being a legist or whatever other stuff.. you don't start right off the blue to study decomposition shit)



V20's the latest edition of the corebook. huge thing with about everything on everything.
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:14 pm

Arse Magica, muhehehe. Thank you!
Will surely download V20 Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:59 pm

V20 rocks. And I got a shiny special copy in my bookshelf. *highly secured* cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:22 am

kyoden wrote:
V20 rocks. And I got a shiny special copy in my bookshelf. *highly secured* cheers

I finally got mine too, in mid February (still waiting for an apology to have been treated as shit by WW...). And the art SUCKS, srsly. except Ken Meyer Jr.

(I got companion too, hoping they won't mess up with the art and won't publish 100+ books like they did before, heeding the call of the money.. just two or three per game, please <_< )
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:26 am

Claudia wrote:
Engine limitations = 7 clans only and X number of targeted disciplines. No way of changing this

Just wondering, is there a way around that without taking a huge amount of work? With a bunch of the new powers introduced in The Final Nights, it looks like you could add Rituals and rework the Path of Blood without a huge amount of effort? (I'm guessing on that one, I don't know what you actually have to do to rearrange powers to clans in the game)

Do not kill me Tremere-knowledgable people! I'm going off memory/spitballing here. I don't claim to know the clan like you guys (and gals) Razz

Like, give them Path of Blood as the renamed Thaumaturgy (or just keep it as Thaumat). R1 - Taste of Blood (Zer0's Sense Vitality?), R2- Blood Purge, R3 - Potent Blood ('Free' blood points that must be used within X time), R4- Theft of Vitae, R5- Cauldron of Blood.

Then remove Auspex, and give them Rituals which doesn't contain any targeted powers. R1- Blood Rush (Zer0's Warding the Beast), R2- Burning Blade (Zer0's Baal's Caress, toned down), R3- Mask of Shadows (Zer0's Silence of Death), R4-Bloodform (instead of Flesh of the Fiery Touch), R5 - no clue.

So change wise you'd add in four already completed powers, have to make Potent Blood if something better can't be used, remove the Auspex tree for Tremere for Rituals tree, and move Bloodform from R3 Thaum to R3 Rituals.

Or is that too much thinking/work for something not needed?
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:00 am

And, merely seen from a technical point of view: What is the difference between a ritual and a discipline. I mean technical as a programmer,
Switching disciplines for the clans is just editing one line in clandoc000.txt
The only idea I have for getting rituals in the game is linking the effect to an item. But then I'll soon run into the next limitation: you can change the displayed name of an item, change its effect, and the look. But you can't introduce new ones.

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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:23 am

Can you install some trigger in game objects so they will be needed to invoke a Ritual powers? Like adding hided functionality to all melee items for Burning Blade, or to all armor to invoke Bloodform?
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:15 am

Nevermind.



Last edited by Jambat on Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:46 am

I have explicitly asked how to do it from a programmers point of view, not how rituals are supposed to work in p&p.

If I link a ritual to an item, which one would I use? The katana, and get killed by all sword swingers? The glock, and get killed by all firearm-users? Powerups like the galdjum, and get killed by everybody?

Seems you haven't got the idea of bloodlines modding yet. For everything new (item, discipline, whatever), something old must go.
That's why TFN has changed the clans and disciplines, and not just added the new clans to the original ones.

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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:17 pm

That's true, but are there any Tremere enemies in game?
And if not, the link "you have to have a certain item in inventory + you must be Tremere + you must have Rituals at some point" won't work. So to use Ritual, you'll need to meet all this requirements. Am I wrong?
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:35 pm

There is the Sabbat Tremere that attacks you in the Hotel.

But having the ritual means that you can't code it out of nowhere. You may affect special stuff into the Pc if you chose Tremere, like, maybe having a different Blood Loss rate.

Anyway the Tremere pc doesn't have neither the means, nor the opportunities to learn Rituals.


Edit : There's a huge problem by changing disciplines. There is a limitation of combinations possible, this is why Zer0's clans are what they are. He had to chose them so they would fit the game's limitation in numbers of disciplines, combining targeted and non targeted.
Rituals are for long term stuff, and very precise. You don't say "it's okay i'll make a ritual" right off the blue. Ritual = alchemy.

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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:36 pm

Which one which one which one?

I can't remember seeing Tremere model, I just shoot 'em all with Bach's Remington in a head before they even realize that I'm there =_=
Is it that guy who makes a white-blue shield and then shoots burning barrels around?
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PostSubject: Re: Blood magic   Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:39 pm

The blue flames guy/girl in the hollowbrock hotel, with the stairs and stuff Very Happy
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