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Alichino
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:16 pm

I think my english isn't that bad or at least I understand most of the text what I read but when I hear
Grouts records I give up after the first sentences.



Quote :
The game is built in a way that it is, indeed, a curse.

At least you have an instructor who start explaining it in a positiv viewpoint.
Many kindred aren't that lucky.

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Claudia
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:32 pm

No, I mean, the Pen and Paper game. The setting, the history of the World of Darkness, actually states that Caine is real, antediluvians are real, the supernatural exists, God exists, the Bible is (fairly) factual, etc.

So yes, it "is" a curse. But there are lots of people that, in the setting, do not believe it. Atheists think god doesn't exist. Scientists believe in evolution. And science is also brought to Kindred's myths and legends. Kindred born into the crusades will take their beliefs into unlife, like Beckett explains, and they create their own mythology, history, legends and else. And truth becomes twisted, as narration and "I heard what he said the other said a few years ago".. You see, that's how a story about a flood that almost killed a king, which then made a big sacrifice to thank the gods that he survived, became the Flood.
And kindred born in the Victorian Era will take new science and else.. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:32 pm

I concur. Malks are typically very intelligent and very observant. There's a reason one of the more typical Malk stereotypes is that of mad doctor/scientist. However, very few people will ever take a Lunatic seriously, so I could definitely see a penalty to Persuasion much more than I could Research or anything like that. Just my $0.02 anyway.
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Claudia
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:35 pm

And it would fit better the babble talk they gave the malkie PC in the game... They never state the PC can't focus, or has focus issues of any kind. They went with the strange talk.
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Alichino
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:46 pm

Quote :
I concur. Malks are typically very intelligent and very observant. There's a reason one of the more typical Malk stereotypes is that of mad doctor/scientist.

Actually no, thats no correct. The stereotypical mad doctor/scientist are the Tremere.
They have at least two or more path which deals with science. The Malcavian are more the prophet-type.

I also doubt the kindred prioritize intelligence when it comes to the choice of emprace. Sure intelligent people would be possible,
but it's hard to believe that insanity has favourite types.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:45 pm

Claudia wrote:
And it would fit better the babble talk they gave the malkie PC in the game... They never state the PC can't focus, or has focus issues of any kind. They went with the strange talk.
On that basis I agree. On the other hand, if I recall right, I suggested a persuasion penalty myself not so long ago, and getting smashed for it, because it doesn't account for the wide range of the Malks madness. So persuasion it is. What do you think is better? -2, or capping it at some level, or -1 and capping?

And all of you who started quoting Grout were correct. Recalling his records about the voices was what gave me the idea for the Research penalty.

Voraxith wrote:
I concur. Malks are typically very intelligent and very observant. There's a reason one of the more typical Malk stereotypes is that of mad doctor/scientist.
Alichino wrote:
Actually no, thats no correct. The stereotypical mad doctor/scientist are the Tremere.
They have at least two or more path which deals with science. The Malcavian are more the prophet-type.
I doubt very much that any Tremere would embrace someone who could qualify for MAD doctor. I think, here Voraxith is right.

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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:55 pm

Alichino wrote:
I think my english isn't that bad or at least I understand most of the text what I read but when I hear
Grouts records I give up after the first sentences.
Well, you have to get used to his voice and the way he has spoken the records. But then it's quite easy to understand...
Or perhaps you have to hear the voices yourself to understand him. HaaR Huar HARR hAaR


Quote :
Quote :
The game is built in a way that it is, indeed, a curse.

At least you have an instructor who start explaining it in a positiv viewpoint.
Many kindred aren't that lucky.

Who are you talking about here. Don't say Grout now...

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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:39 pm

Grout has a lovely voice and he's kinda very easy to understand, though I had to turn subtitles on cuz some words he use are psycho-slang.
...
Khm. Guess I'm kinda malkie then -)
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Voraxith
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:33 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Quote :
Quote :
The game is built in a way that it is, indeed, a curse.

At least you have an instructor who start explaining it in a positiv viewpoint.
Many kindred aren't that lucky.

Who are you talking about here. Don't say Grout now...

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I think they're referring to Jack.
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:56 am

The problem with a Persuasion penalty for Malkavians is that it won't make much difference. I already never invest into Persuasion as a Malkie because in most cases I can use Dementation instead and I'm always leveling that up anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:58 am

Persuasion does, as I recall, have a few options that Dominate/Dementation doesn't.
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Alichino
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:30 am

Quote :
I doubt very much that any Tremere would embrace someone who could qualify for MAD doctor. I think, here Voraxith is right.

Ok first of all we shoul calriry the term "mad".
MAD doctors we is used for brilliant geniuses with motives we don't understand.
Frankenstein wasn't actually mad and people who research and create are usually Tremere. (Gargoyle = Frankensteinmonster Connection anyone?)

As I said the Malcavian are usually the Prohets like the chick on the Beach in Bloodlines. The "common" doesn't have the resources and the attention span for such a thing. Crout is maybe the exception.



Quote :
The problem with a Persuasion penalty for Malkavians is that it won't make much difference. I already never invest into Persuasion as a Malkie because in most cases I can use Dementation instead and I'm always leveling that up anyway.


In Pan & Paper the better your socials skills are, the better is you Power. How about requirements of Dots ind Social Attributs and Skills for using Dementation and Dominate. For instance for using Dominate 3 as a Ventrue you need a combination of 3 in Charisma and Seduction.
The same for Dementation.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:00 am

Meowolf wrote:
Grout has a lovely voice and he's kinda very easy to understand, though I had to turn subtitles on cuz some words he use are psycho-slang.
...
Khm. Guess I'm kinda malkie then -)
Of course YOU have no trouble understanding him. After all we are all of the same blood, and that wannabe warlock isn't. HaaR Huar HARR hAaR

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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:15 am

Karavolos wrote:
Persuasion does, as I recall, have a few options that Dominate/Dementation doesn't.
Yep. The most important are getting money out of Copper, the thinblood on the beach, and getting extra xp at the Giovanni meeting, from the Professor, and from Beckett in the tower.
Maybe you can get the info and extra xp about finding the dig site from the prof by Dominate/Dementation too. I'm not sure now.
For some of the Giovanni, I think you can get results with Seduction as well...
And for Copper, I'm thinking about making the quest available with Wits or if you already have found the stake as well.

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Alichino
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:23 am

As far as I remember, you need to seduce the woman in the Giovanni mantion and the persuade her to receive her dirty secret.
Both values must be very high.
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:03 am

Alichino wrote:
As far as I remember, you need to seduce the woman in the Giovanni mantion and the persuade her to receive her dirty secret.
Both values must be very high.

Never run into that... Shocked Embarassed Which woman are you speaking about?
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Alichino
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:29 am

Mira Giovann, the woman in the black-red dress standing next to the piano in the lobby.
There are three people who compete with each other. Two men and this woman.
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:12 am

The one with aids Wink

I remember there's another way around it to know about it (telling her you killed someone or you're having problems with the FBI).
You can with Seduce 8, though
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Ayo
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:40 am

Claudia wrote:
The one with aids Wink

I remember there's another way around it to know about it (telling her you killed someone or you're having problems with the FBI).
You can with Seduce 8, though

And everybody is jumping at the chance to spend points on Seduction...
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:42 am

Ahhh... Thanks.
I will have to use stealth once in the Giovanni mansion, it seems. Wholsale slaughter was fun, though... Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:44 am

Very Happy

The first time I went, I demented the guard to enter. I hadn't noticed the couple you could get the invite to :p
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:45 am

You can Seduce Mira with 9 points in Seduction, you can Persuade all 3 of candidates including Mira Giovanni. Also you can Seduce/Persuade a girl out there to get to the library (and have some slurpy vampire neck-sex, if Seducing).
If you have investigated the dig site and the sarcophagus and have 9 points in Persuasion, then you can talk professor to a conclusion that he was pointed at this big old creaking stuff. By the *spoiler*. Also he tells you some more history about strange letters, conspiracy, yadda-yadda.

I think a Malkavian, as a creature with insane intuition and mind which is gliding through the creaks of reality, is more likely to *feel* the other person, and not *understand* others. So my opinion is that Malkavians are more likely to develop Subterfuge and less likely to develop high Persuasion skills. That is why I agree with -2 penalty to Persuasion, even if it locks some quests, but hey - we have Ventrue for that. Toreadors get HEAVY Seduce bonus right from the start. Malkavians get LOLZ right from the start, so no Seduce bonus for latter guys. ^___^

Harr Huaar?
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:19 pm

You can get the secret of all three with persuasion only. Adam is easier than the other two. I don't recall the exact values necessary right now. But since you can sell to only one of them, getting all is pointless, except for your personal curiosity...
You can get Nadia to open up the library with persuasion too. But in that case not as a blooddoll. She will, however, sometimes show you the skull-switch to lock/unlock the grate traps. But that part is broken and erratic. We haven't found a fix for it yet.

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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:52 pm

You can sell 2 of them to the third, but only when using Persuasion 9.
/fixed, checked myself.

Also you are starting the thread with Persuasion line (blue), but then you have to guess a right sentence to work around their minds, it will not be high-lighted. In Mira's case - about a crash-killing, in businessman-case - about him going bankrupt and bluffing, in guy's case - smth about "clouds are gathering" shit and a toilet.
Toilet?
Oh yes. Must go.
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PostSubject: Re: Learning   Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:36 pm

Though Mira is more difficult than the others because for instance when you give the Pseudo Giovanni a piece of your dirty secrets in exchange for his, you can give him more than once, while in Mira's case one false answer is the end of her road.
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