The Embrace

Just as a thought. There are Giovanni in LA. At least up to the moment they are visited by the pc.
So, would it make sense for Bruno to turn up at occasions like the meeting in the theatre? Even the Hollywood kindred are there. And they certainly have no affiliation whatsoever to the Camarilla.

On a similar matter, what about Primogen meetings? Would a leader or representative of an independent clan attend as a guest?

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Lore junkie Claudia to the rescue!

ThePhilosopher wrote:

Lore junkie Claudia to the rescue!

Oh, that is a very helpful reply

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They would show up to the prince's meeting about how to respect the laws and to siege his authority on the city, and I'd even think Lacroix would have invited them to come, so he'd have that image of "awesome prince of awesome"

But they wouldn't show up to the primogen meeting. That's politics. They aren't represented in the city, they have not anything to say in how the city is runned (like foreigners can't vote ! ).
Gary is present because he's not -openly- Anarch, but it's a random Toreador and not Isaac that represents the Toreador, right ?

I agree with Claudia. Primogen meetings are for Camarilla politics only. No outsiders present to see how divided the Camarilla really is.

But the meeting in the theater was to show his authority, and how he upholds Camarilla law, so he would want everyone there to see what a strong Prince he is. Of course, LaCroix lost the advantage when Nines spoke up and everyone in the audience started getting restless. Like Jack says, LaCroix read the mood of the crowd and showed a carefully measured dose of 'Camarilla compassion', to avoid a riot.

LaCroix figures there's always time to kill you later, so that he doesn't get the blame.

Agreed completely.

wonderful PDF I found on this:

http://gbn.weebly.com/uploads/2/4/6/2/2462476/thegiovannipromise.pdf

Clauds, dear, I hate to say this but I have to slightly disagree with you on this one. Remember that the Camarilla claims ALL kindred, regardless of clan or sect affiliations, as subservient members of the Inner Circle. There are a great many staunchly Camarilla cities that host Lasombra, Tzimisce, Caitiff, Setite, Ravnos, Assamite, and Giovanni primogen, even if they only represent themselves. I think even a few minor bloodlines have had primogen posts, though I'm not 100% on that. As for the spectators of LaCroix's spectacular display of incompetence and idiocy, both VV and Isaac were present, as was Ash. The only notable NPCs from the game that were missing from the initial theatre scene were Jeanette (for fairly obvious reasons), Grout, Bertram, and Ming-Xiao, but the latter isn't even kindred, so I guess she don't count (even if she is a hot-ass Asian chick with tentacles. Drool...)

While there are Kindred from independent clans who have aligned themselves with the Camarilla, the Giovanni as a whole are not part of the Camarilla, and therefore should not be included in high-level Camarilla meetings. They would not be invited to a meeting of Primogen. Neither should the anarchs, even though by Camarilla definition the anarchs are Camarilla.

The same applies to the Sabbat, but they aren't invited to Camarilla functions either. Well, not by the Camarilla. The Kuei-jin might invite them, and then stand back and watch the fun.

Even though he regards both the Camarilla and anarchs as idiots, Gary is regarded as the Nosferatu Primogen. We know this because when asked about his loyalties, Bertam Tung says he's loyal to his primogen, and therefore to the Camarilla. No other Nossies in Santa Monica, so he's talking about Gary.

The theater was not a strictly Camarilla function, so anarchs and independents were all invited (in the hope of scaring them into joining the Camarilla).

PS - hot-ass Asian chick with tentacles? Sound like she's a one-person hentai movie.

There is a strong difference between the duties of the Camarilla (respecting the laws), and the rights it provides to its members.

Don't forger that the Giovanni legally cannot be Camarilla.
After destruction of Cappadocians, both parties negotiated The Promise in 1528.
Basically it is mutual non interference pact. Camarilla does not meddle in Giovanni affairs and vice versa.
Officially the Mafiosi were rejected membership becouse of Diablerie they commited on Ashur. Falsereason, of course, becouse Ventrue plotted it allalong and Tremere did the same, but Tremere did it in some distant tomb in forgotten far away land,while any evidence of Patricians hand was removed. Uncle Auggie did it publically, in the limelight in the centre of Europe. So elders of various Clans thought it a bad example and worse precedent.
As for exact, administrative procedures of Camarilla-Giovanni interactions, I posted a PDF a few posts above.

But yeah, basically the clan is loyal to itself only and why only deal with one half of the spectrum, when you can make a fucking lot of business by dealing with everyone ?

The idea is that the giovanni in camarilla domain submit themselves to camarilla laws, but they do not benefit from their rights (nobody cares if you kill them !). And Lacroix is way too much of a racist and classical ventrue to think about shaping camarilla laws to his benefit. He's too predictable and not original enough