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dkmode
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PostSubject: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:34 am

Is it possible to make it so people on the street notice the nosferatu from farther away, like maybe 10 feet away instead of having to practically touch them? Also make it so if two people see you within a few minutes, you break the masquerade? Or something?

As a nossie i'd love that because it would make for a more challenging and authentic experience

if thats too difficult to impliment I understand but maybe something could be done? Even something tiny would be a big improvement
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:46 am

That would be good. I remember my disappointment when I discovered that a Nossie can walk the streets without much trouble.
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:46 pm

Dragatus wrote:
That would be good. I remember my disappointment when I discovered that a Nossie can walk the streets without much trouble.

I never learned it on my own... I alvays PnP'd it and stuck to the sewers. Imagine my shock when I read that in spite of being horribly ugly I could still walk the streets...! Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:51 pm

I also PMed wesp and asked him if he thinks its possible in the first place.

He responded that he recently discovered that it is possible, and that he *might* put it in the next unofficial plus patch.

Of course the part that kinda sucks is the next unofficial patch will not be out for a while, and CE 1.6 surely will already be released by then, and who knows if there will ever be a 1.7, So unless malkav wants to add this into 1.6 (i doubt he wants to add in something like that this late) it will probably be quite a while (if ever) before we can have an authentic nossie run in CE


Oh well. Im just glad its possible, though. Maybe some day. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:07 pm

No one ever plays a nossie anyways. They're so ugly. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:25 pm

ThePhilosopher wrote:
No one ever plays a nossie anyways. They're so ugly. Laughing
Neutral I played one. Also played Malk, Gangrel, Tremere and Ventrue.

But I agree with this. I was super careful when walking down the streets while it wasn't even really necessary. Normal humans are blind!
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:33 pm

I weep for the future of role-playing.

I can understand you wanting to make your video gaming experience more realistic according to the game concept; but I doubt it is really worth the trouble Wesp5 or anyone else will go through making this small change. Nosferatu is not my favorite clan to play in Bloodlines, yet even after I heard that a Nosferatu character could run down the middle of the streets and not break the Masquerade, I refused to do so, because I'm a better role-player than that. I skulked in the shadows like a good little Nossie, and used the sewers although I hated having to do so.

In short, I played 'make believe' like we all do as children, and which role-players continue to do during every game they play. It did not even occur to me to ask Wesp5 or Childe of Malkav to change the game and force me to abide by the rules. I did so on my own, because it's what the character would do in that situation, to uphold the Masquerade.

As hard as it is to make any changes in Bloodlines, due to the game engine, make your requests count. Wish for something bigger, like new maps and quests! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:20 pm

PGM1961 wrote:
I weep for the future of role-playing.

I can understand you wanting to make your video gaming experience more realistic according to the game concept; but I doubt it is really worth the trouble Wesp5 or anyone else will go through making this small change. Nosferatu is not my favorite clan to play in Bloodlines, yet even after I heard that a Nosferatu character could run down the middle of the streets and not break the Masquerade, I refused to do so, because I'm a better role-player than that. I skulked in the shadows like a good little Nossie, and used the sewers although I hated having to do so.

In short, I played 'make believe' like we all do as children, and which role-players continue to do during every game they play. It did not even occur to me to ask Wesp5 or Childe of Malkav to change the game and force me to abide by the rules. I did so on my own, because it's what the character would do in that situation, to uphold the Masquerade.

As hard as it is to make any changes in Bloodlines, due to the game engine, make your requests count. Wish for something bigger, like new maps and quests! Smile

Get off your high horse. I can make any request I want, and if wesp or malkav or any modder thinks its not worth their time, then thats fine. It is their decision. Thats great that you can play "pretend" in bloodlines, but I think this change would be beneficial and your condescension isn't going to change my mind. Got anything of substance to add? Maybe instead of inventing CE, zeromorph should hae just pretended that there was a bloodtimer instead of creating one. Oh, I guess he just isn't as good of a "roleplayer" as you, huh?

I'm not wasting anyones time by posting an idea in the "post your idea" section.

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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:49 pm

There's no need to start fighting over this people Sad Please keep it civil!
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:09 pm

It all depends on how difficult it is to find and change it...

And Nachtrae is absolutely right: keep it civil.

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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:34 pm

Agreed on keeping it civil, but I don't appreciate being condescended to. I'm not a lesser roleplayer for posting an idea on how to improve the gameplay mechanics of my favorite clan. I wanted to defend myself after that silly insinuation. Sorry I let it get to me.

Thanks for your response malkav. I agree it totally depends on difficulty vs how worthwhile it is. If it's a huge hassle then i agree it's not worth it for you. But if it turns out to be relatively easy for someone with your skillset, maybe it's worth it. thank you for even taking it under consideration. I really do appreciate this forum to voice opinions/ideas/feedback.


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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:58 pm

dkmode wrote:
Get off your high horse. I can make any request I want, and if wesp or malkav or any modder thinks its not worth their time, then thats fine. It is their decision. Thats great that you can play "pretend" in bloodlines, but I think this change would be beneficial and your condescension isn't going to change my mind. Got anything of substance to add? Maybe instead of inventing CE, zeromorph should hae just pretended that there was a bloodtimer instead of creating one. Oh, I guess he just isn't as good of a "roleplayer" as you, huh?

I'm not wasting anyones time by posting an idea in the "post your idea" section.


Fine, post whatever you want. I'll do the same. I have tried my hand at modding a few times (and realized that I didn't have the knowledge to do a good job), and played V:tM - Bloodlines long enough, to realize that it's very difficult to make any changes at all, given the limitations of the game engine. I respect the people who give us CE, and CQM, and Unofficial Patches ad infinitum. That's why I thought it was a little presumptuous of you to ask Malkav to go through all that effort to change something that is only a factor for those who play Nosferatu characters... and only for those who can't keep their distance from humans without a game mechanic that forces them to do so. Or are you merely looking forward to making more humans run screaming when they see your Nossie's face? Your choice, I guess.

However, you're right about one thing... it's not my place to tell you what questions you can or cannot post. Feel free to ask Malkav to make whatever changes you think would make your game better. It's up to him to tell you no. I think he's too nice sometimes towards people who would monopolize his time, but that's his choice. I'll try to keep my opinions of your role-playing skills to myself. Not because I don't have the right to express my opinions, but because it's not worth the effort. Arguments don't change people's minds.

Oh, and for the record, I've never liked the blood timer. I know it's meant to introduce the feeling of having to keep your blood pool up night after night, and make the game closer to the PnP version; but to me it's a distraction to the gameplay, and forces me to kill enemies that I wouldn't have to, if I weren't required to keep my blood pool filled. (Plus, it's just too fast -- way faster than 1 BP/night, considering how time passes in the game.) However, I've never asked them to change it, because this mod is Zer0Morph's and Malkav's vision, and if I don't like it, I'm free to play the UP or CQM patches/mods. Also, people have asked them how to turn off the timer, and they have posted instructions on how to set the timer at maximum time, which I appreciated. So I'm willing to put up with the timer, if it means playing CE or TFN.
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:04 pm

PGM1961 wrote:
dkmode wrote:
Get off your high horse. I can make any request I want, and if wesp or malkav or any modder thinks its not worth their time, then thats fine. It is their decision. Thats great that you can play "pretend" in bloodlines, but I think this change would be beneficial and your condescension isn't going to change my mind. Got anything of substance to add? Maybe instead of inventing CE, zeromorph should hae just pretended that there was a bloodtimer instead of creating one. Oh, I guess he just isn't as good of a "roleplayer" as you, huh?

I'm not wasting anyones time by posting an idea in the "post your idea" section.


Fine, post whatever you want. I'll do the same. I have tried my hand at modding a few times (and realized that I didn't have the knowledge to do a good job), and played V:tM - Bloodlines long enough, to realize that it's very difficult to make any changes at all, given the limitations of the game engine. I respect the people who give us CE, and CQM, and Unofficial Patches ad infinitum. That's why I thought it was a little presumptuous of you to ask Malkav to go through all that effort to change something that is only a factor for those who play Nosferatu characters... and only for those who can't keep their distance from humans without a game mechanic that forces them to do so. Or are you merely looking forward to making more humans run screaming when they see your Nossie's face? Your choice, I guess.

However, you're right about one thing... it's not my place to tell you what questions you can or cannot post. Feel free to ask Malkav to make whatever changes you think would make your game better. It's up to him to tell you no. I think he's too nice sometimes towards people who would monopolize his time, but that's his choice. I'll try to keep my opinions of your role-playing skills to myself. Not because I don't have the right to express my opinions, but because it's not worth the effort. Arguments don't change people's minds.

Oh, and for the record, I've never liked the blood timer. I know it's meant to introduce the feeling of having to keep your blood pool up night after night, and make the game closer to the PnP version; but to me it's a distraction to the gameplay, and forces me to kill enemies that I wouldn't have to, if I weren't required to keep my blood pool filled. (Plus, it's just too fast -- way faster than 1 BP/night, considering how time passes in the game.) However, I've never asked them to change it, because this mod is Zer0Morph's and Malkav's vision, and if I don't like it, I'm free to play the UP or CQM patches/mods. Also, people have asked them how to turn off the timer, and they have posted instructions on how to set the timer at maximum time, which I appreciated. So I'm willing to put up with the timer, if it means playing CE or TFN.


Sorry, but no. It is not presumptuous at all to do exactly what this section of the forum is all about: Post your ideas. If malkav and zero didn't want to hear people's ideas, then this section wouldn't exist.

They are perfectly capable of deciding which ideas they want to implement and which ideas they don't. You should give them more credit for their ability to make their own decisions. It's presumptuous to act like they can't decide for themselves or that they are "too nice".

Thanks for your permission for asking what I want to ask though. Rolling Eyes

Plus you are completely warping what my thread was about. I wasn't "asking him to go through all the effort to change it". I asked if it was possible and if it was too difficult or not. That's all.

For crying out loud, my first post even pointed out that if it's too difficult then I understand. What more do you want? You seem to be just trying to start an argument for the sake of starting an argument.
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:53 pm

dkmode wrote:
Thanks for your permission for asking what I want to ask though. Rolling Eyes

I was trying to acknowledge your point that it wasn't my place to tell you what questions to post, without actually apologizing to you, which I don't feel is warranted. I guess you will take whatever I say now in a bad light, so whatever.

I'll stop it here. Feel free to post a reply, although I won't be responding. And no, that's not permission, it's a general statement of indifference.
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:24 pm

PGM1961 wrote:
dkmode wrote:
Thanks for your permission for asking what I want to ask though. Rolling Eyes

I was trying to acknowledge your point that it wasn't my place to tell you what questions to post, without actually apologizing to you, which I don't feel is warranted. I guess you will take whatever I say now in a bad light, so whatever.

I'm aware of what you were attempting to do. You realized you made an error in judgement in trying to tell me not to post my idea(by your own admission), but instead of apologizing, you continued with veiled insults like "Feel free to ask malkav to make whatever changes to try and make your game better", implying I am being selfish, because it only makes "MY" game better. That's why I rolled my eyes. This was also right after you called me presumptuous and insinuated I was a poor role player for no good reason. Also I believe it makes everyone's game better to improve the game play mechanics of any clan, because it gives more re playability value. I still don't understand why trying to improve game mechanics makes one a poor role-player. Seems like a total leap in logic to me.

I would definitely not take everything you say in a bad light, as long as it's not a veiled insult or condescension. I try my best not to hold grudges. I do disagree that arguments cannot change people's minds. I enjoy learning very much, so if someone can present a well reasoned argument, I usually enjoy being convinced to change my mind or realize something new. But you are definitely right that many people refuse to have their mind changed by the reasoning of others, they usually have to come to conclusions on their own because of human competitiveness. I have done my best for the last several years to try not to be that way, although I don't always succeed because human nature is human nature.

I would love to hear your ideas, but you have already made it clear that you have no interest in improving the nossie gameplay in the manner I suggested or posting in this thread any further. That is your opinion and I respect it. But if you have ideas of your own and would like to post them I will try to be constructive. I guarantee I will not ever guilt-trip you, or accuse you of being presumptous, or imply that you are selfish, or a bad roleplayer, for respectfully posting an idea thread of your own.

In retrospect I wish I had just ignored your initial post, but I was foolish and got very defensive which drew attention to us, which turned this thread into an argument. I hope that this thread has not become completely de-railed to the point where those of us who are interested cannot still discuss the idea, or improve on it.
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:06 am

Looks like you two need a padded cell and two basball bats to solve this problem. I could use the entry-fee to hire a texture-artist. HaaR Huar HARR hAaR

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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:48 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Looks like you two need a padded cell and two basball bats to solve this problem. I could use the entry-fee to hire a texture-artist. HaaR Huar HARR hAaR

haha,no I think this little disagreement has run its course.

Im glad to see most of the people in the thread seemed to agree it would be an improvement though. Whether its worth the time is up to you obviously


*slips malkav a hundred dollar bill* Twisted Evil


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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:54 pm

Sorry, I couldn't find it in the obvious places. I know it can be changed, because Zer0 uses the same function in TFN for the Samedi, and they use the Ventrue, not the Nossie template.

*palms the $ anyways*

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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:25 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Sorry, I couldn't find it in the obvious places. I know it can be changed, because Zer0 uses the same function in TFN for the Samedi, and they use the Ventrue, not the Nossie template.

*palms the $ anyways*

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ah, ok, interesting. I appreciate you lookin into it!

Keep the money you deserve it! (haha but seriously if there was some sort of paypal set up id gladly donate becausr this mod is so great. Same with wesp. Although I understand the possible legal problems that could present which is why nobody tends to do that. Dumb laws...)
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:44 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
I know it can be changed, because Zer0 uses the same function in TFN for the Samedi, and they use the Ventrue, not the Nossie template.

Actually, if you check clandoc they use the Nossie template, they are just considered Ventrue for the purpose of dialogue. Probably the dialogue links "Ventrue" to "clan #7 in the alphabetic list".

My money is on the reaction being hardcoded.
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:29 pm

dkmode wrote:
Is it possible to make it so people on the street notice the nosferatu from farther away, like maybe 10 feet away instead of having to practically touch them? Also make it so if two people see you within a few minutes, you break the masquerade? Or something?

As a nossie i'd love that because it would make for a more challenging and authentic experience

if thats too difficult to impliment I understand but maybe something could be done? Even something tiny would be a big improvement
As far as I can remember, one can alter the general NPC "see/hear distance" through feats.txt under Inspection. I changed it in mine old histories mod because it also decreased the Sneaking effectiveness (but there was a problem with that sneaking intro & Jack tutorial afterwards). I played Nossie at that time and I have to be much more hidden than in Vanilla VtMB (even when sneaking).

Hopefully this helps.
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:36 pm

PGM1961 Says:
"In short, I played 'make believe' like we all do as children, and which role-players continue to do during every game they play. It did not even occur to me to ask Wesp5 or Childe of Malkav to change the game and force me to abide by the rules. I did so on my own, because it's what the character would do in that situation, to uphold the Masquerade."


Actually I feel the same way about clans with zero appearance. I just naturally assume you can fool a few on the main strip but jogging down the street waiving hello to the druggies and prostitutes with a cujo grin slapped on an ate up face would be forbidden according to the individual player during game play. There are plenty of appearance friendly clans in the game to choose from. If you play a Nossie or a Samedi, you should try and avoid busy areas as much as possible. I personally never played a Nosferatu. I found their back story and ablities to be somewhat ho-hum. When the Samedi came out, I couldn't resist. He has easily become my favorite.

When I play CE again, I'll probably play a Nosferatu. I've grown use to the sewers and the urine soaked alleys of California. :0) Ya know it would be cool if the Nossie had access to a hoodie or a hat in the game to kind of hide their appearance which would justify the ability to run down the street. People wouldn't eye ball them as hard if they had real clothes on. Just a thought.
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:48 am

The funny/ironic thing is..I also keep to the alleys and the sewers when I play nosferatu. I play pretend EVERY single time I play nosferatu, and I always have. For years. That's kind of why I was so annoyed and defensive when I was accused of being a lesser roleplayer just for proposing this idea. I've played "pretend" nosferatu for years.. but I imagine it could be sooo much more interesting and dynamic. I believe implementing this idea would actually improve roleplaying experience by making it more atmospheric.

Pretend is fun, but when it comes down to it, I know in the back of my head there is NEVER real danger of breaking the masquerade by being seen. There is no tension. Pretending is just not, and never will be, the same thing. It could never replace the real tension a nervous fledgling nosferatu would feel by having to remain hidden at ALL costs. That looming threat would create so much more atmosphere for the role-player to really feed off of to immerse them-self further into the role. It's one of those subtle changes that would make a huge impact on atmosphere. This could completely alter the gameplay as well as the atmosphere for the nosferatu. I think it would also add huge replay value and an incentive for many to play through as a nosferatu again, especially the majority who were disappointed that nosferatu gameplay was so safe.

In my opinion, CE is perfect for this, especially because Malkav has gone out of his way to make pedestrians more random and unpredictable. The more random they are, the easier it is to slip up and get caught. Being a nosferatu would really highlight malkav's decision to make pedestrians more unpredictable, because you can no longer just memorize static routes by static npcs that are constanty the same. You'd have to adapt to more random pedestrians to hide from. With that pressure to adapt would create more tension, and therefore more atmosphere. More atmosphere makes the roleplaying experience better, not worse.
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:50 am

dkmode wrote:
The funny/ironic thing is..I also keep to the alleys and the sewers when I play nosferatu. I play pretend EVERY single time I play nosferatu, and I always have. For years. That's kind of why I was so annoyed and defensive when I was accused of being a lesser roleplayer just for proposing this idea. I've played "pretend" nosferatu for years.. but I imagine it could be sooo much more interesting and dynamic. I believe implementing this idea would actually improve roleplaying experience by making it more atmospheric.

Pretend is fun, but when it comes down to it, I know in the back of my head there is NEVER real danger of breaking the masquerade by being seen. There is no tension. Pretending is just not, and never will be, the same thing. It could never replace the real tension a nervous fledgling nosferatu would feel by having to remain hidden at ALL costs. That looming threat would create so much more atmosphere for the role-player to really feed off of to immerse them-self further into the role. It's one of those subtle changes that would make a huge impact on atmosphere. This could completely alter the gameplay as well as the atmosphere for the nosferatu. I think it would also add huge replay value and an incentive for many to play through as a nosferatu again, especially the majority who were disappointed that nosferatu gameplay was so safe.

In my opinion, CE is perfect for this, especially because Malkav has gone out of his way to make pedestrians more random and unpredictable. The more random they are, the easier it is to slip up and get caught. Being a nosferatu would really highlight malkav's decision to make pedestrians more unpredictable, because you can no longer just memorize static routes by static npcs that are constanty the same. You'd have to adapt to more random pedestrians to hide from. With that pressure to adapt would create more tension, and therefore more atmosphere. More atmosphere makes the roleplaying experience better, not worse.

Oh yeah there's no doubt it would be cool if Pedestrians were more sensitive. It would be funny if you were sneaking up on one of thoseguys guys in santa monica and he started asking, "hey is someone there?" right before you laid his neck open. LMAO
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:49 pm

dkmode wrote:
Im glad to see most of the people in the thread seemed to agree it would be an improvement though. Whether its worth the time is up to you obviously

*slips malkav a hundred dollar bill* Twisted Evil

I was going to ignore this thread, and avoid the "Post your Idea" topic entirely to avoid reading the ideas some people submit. But I didn't want it to seem like this idea is unopposed. So here is my opinion, stated in less inflammatory fashion.

I don't think dkmode's idea would improve gameplay; at least, not for most people. I don't remember seeing anyone else, either on this site or Planet-Vampire.org, who thought that Nosferatu need more penalties to their gaming experience. I think most people feel that Nosferatu characters are penalized enough. That is my opinion as well. Making it more likely for Nosferatu to gain a Masquerade violation would only make it harder to play that clan.

If enough people want this, and Malkav is willing to put forth the effort to please such a small segment of the gaming population, I think there should be a way to opt out of the new content. Similar to Wesp5's Basic and Plus patches. If you're going to do that, you might as well make a 'More Challenging' mode for other clans also. At least that would make things more difficult for everyone, instead of penalizing just one clan.

There. That's my vote.
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PostSubject: Re: more authentic nossie run   

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