Thoughts on having actually finished a playthrough of TFN

Alright, so I will eat some of what I said before. I was wrong! TFN is a much better mod than I initially gave it credit for, having now actually done a whole playthrough (as Salubri, without any extra modding).

My first thread was highly premature, as there was a lot to the game I just hadn't seen. There is one thing that stands out clearly though: this is a very well-done but challenging mod, not the best mod to be having fun with the game (imo, Clan Quest is much more fun, but not nearly as challenging). So there is some balance there, and worthwhile at that.

In reality, I would say that Salubri should count as the strongest tank character possible, by any race or clan built ever. Lol. Obeah + Fortitude + BB = INSANE levels of Soak feat, just untouchable by mid/late-game. As a young character is it quite difficult to play Salubri, but after surviving mid-game and being able to acquire its better skills plus armor, its ability to deflect and absorb damage is unparalleled. No other race could have come close imo, and that is a testament to two things: 1) zer0's wisdom in the clan design, and 2) what potential the Salubri have in their Warrior/Healer paths. Simply magnificent.

It also helped that every walkthrough of the game I've finished so far on any mod has resulted in a diff ending lol, this time it was the "do your own thing" path with letting LaCroix have the key and blow himself to smithereens. So satisfying haha.

There are still a few small tweaks I would make, but this is well worth a replay down the road.


Kudos to Zer0/Malkav/et al! Thanks

Yes, the Salubri make awesome tanks. On my playthrough I actually didn't buy any armor until after I reached Chinatown.

Salubri rule, Tremere Drool.

Dragatus wrote:

Yes, the Salubri make awesome tanks. On my playthrough I actually didn't buy any armor until after I reached Chinatown.

Now that I think about it, I ended up doing the same thing. Reason being was that I would usually have very little cash due to buying as many skill books as possible.


Kinda annoying that the last 2-3 I couldn't get were because they needed a research of 8/9/10 T_T.



@Saulot: ahahaha, so true

XD

Actually I liked playing Assamite. Come on, Assamite + fireamrs = uber cheated

Of course, in both CE and FN, the Tremere and Salubri are both powerful tanks.
The Salubri because they are like a wall of diamonds against both human and supernatural, with maxed Obeah and Fortitude.
And in CE, after I finished a playthrough as a Tremere, because of the Physical skill restrictions, I was able to max out Thaumaturgy, Dominate and Auspex. And they are offensive powerhouses. "Cauldron of Blood" is like a timebomb that would make for a wonderful paint job, and "Still the Mortal Flesh", "Chain the Psyche" and "Tyrant's Gaze" works wonderfully against people.
Area of Effect Deaths, Making mutiple people completely susceptible to sneak kills, and Tyrant's Gaze for when you can't use any other offensive disciplines.

Sally, a tank is a character that is hard to kill because of strong defenses. Tremere don't qualify for that.

temporae wrote:

Dragatus wrote:

Yes, the Salubri make awesome tanks. On my playthrough I actually didn't buy any armor until after I reached Chinatown.

Now that I think about it, I ended up doing the same thing. Reason being was that I would usually have very little cash due to buying as many skill books as possible.

I did it for the same reason

Dragatus wrote:

Sally, a tank is a character that is hard to kill because of strong defenses. Tremere don't qualify for that.

Err, I meant to say that the Salubri are tanks, but the Tremere are the opposite. They are killing machines with Still the Mortal Flesh and Cauldron of Blood.

aha, yeah for sure. Ironically, I loved playing as Tremere (before I knew about Salubri and the whole WoD history bit). They could kill from range like no other character, plus blood-replenishing disciplines.

It always amused me how Strauss seemed like he had everything figured out, arrogant beyond belief. I liked how Troika et al made the Anarchs kind of complete opposites in that they don't really try to control anything, so their perspectives are really lawless altogether. Either go with Camarilla and complete control-it-all dipsticks, or Anarchs and don't give a damn about anyone else as long as they're not after you....or go solo ofc. Tough decisions o_t

Thanks for the kudos Temporae! I haven't read your initial review but this one was exactly what I was hoping someone who finished the game with a Salubri would say. I designed each clan to be "potentially" the most powerful at one thing. Tanking is a Salubri's nature however, I also wanted the player to have options to build their Kindred to "go against the grain" and still be viable. Versatile clans are generally the most fun to play because you can build them how you want, you aren't restricted to stereotypes.

Also I appreciate the feedback on TFN vs. CQM. You said CQM was more fun but TFN was more challenging. That's great to hear because to me, challenging = fun, not challenging = boring. If great power is just given to me and I didn't have to work for it, I get bored quickly. I wanted TFN to give the player a sense of accomplishment. I wanted the player to say "My TFN Kindred is powerful because I properly planned and executed a genius idea on how to make them powerful, therefore I deserve the power I obtained". So again, hearing that TFN was challenging gives me great delight!

Also, a quick note about Tremere. If you loved playing Tremere but still want to play TFN, may I recommend playing an Assamite. The Quietus discipline has many similarities to Thaumaturgy. I'll let you experiment with that!

Zer0Morph wrote:

Thanks for the kudos Temporae! I haven't read your initial review but this one was exactly what I was hoping someone who finished the game with a Salubri would say. I designed each clan to be "potentially" the most powerful at one thing. Tanking is a Salubri's nature however, I also wanted the player to have options to build their Kindred to "go against the grain" and still be viable. Versatile clans are generally the most fun to play because you can build them how you want, you aren't restricted to stereotypes.

Also I appreciate the feedback on TFN vs. CQM. You said CQM was more fun but TFN was more challenging. That's great to hear because to me, challenging = fun, not challenging = boring. If great power is just given to me and I didn't have to work for it, I get bored quickly. I wanted TFN to give the player a sense of accomplishment. I wanted the player to say "My TFN Kindred is powerful because I properly planned and executed a genius idea on how to make them powerful, therefore I deserve the power I obtained". So again, hearing that TFN was challenging gives me great delight!

Also, a quick note about Tremere. If you loved playing Tremere but still want to play TFN, may I recommend playing an Assamite. The Quietus discipline has many similarities to Thaumaturgy. I'll let you experiment with that!

It is well-deserved

Btw, I do want to point this out: the Salubri tank I ended up with by mid-late game was so badass....I literally walked up to the Society of Leopold guys, fully buffed, and tanked maybe 2 dozen enemies going all out with various kinds of weapons...and lost maybe 1 point of health while buffed the whole time. The amount of damage Salubri can take is just mind-boggling. Not too surprisingly, those are the favorite types of characters I like to have ^^

I didn't want to make it seem as if the opposite of "challenging" was "boring", as that wasn't the case. What it meant in terms of gameplay for me was that I had to strategically plan a lot of encounters, especially ones that needed stealth to get those XP bonuses. It worked out every time, though in some cases it needed a 2nd/3rd run-through to get right. Contrast this with CQM, where there was less strategic planning involved, but the gameplay seemed to be more relaxed and less tension-inducing .


I may try Assamites when I pick up TFN later on (on different RPG projects atm). Do you have any plans for updating it though? I know you're probably still busy with new jobs and other stuff IRL, but I'd love to see new blood injected into the site/mod (pun intended .


EDIT: Please, for the love of goodness, introduce female classes for all races in TFN! I had a huge issue playing as an ugly male character, especially for Assamites where he looks like he's crawling on the ground.

[b]

temporae wrote:

EDIT: Please, for the love of goodness, introduce female classes for all races in TFN! I had a huge issue playing as an ugly male character, especially for Assamites where he looks like he's crawling on the ground.

While I agree that female models need to be implemented, you do realize that the male Assamite won't crawl around on the ground in-game right?

Karavolos wrote:

temporae wrote:

EDIT: Please, for the love of goodness, introduce female classes for all races in TFN! I had a huge issue playing as an ugly male character, especially for Assamites where he looks like he's crawling on the ground.

While I agree that female models need to be implemented, you do realize that the male Assamite won't crawl around on the ground in-game right?

What do you have against going on all fours, Unicorn?

Yeah, the Assamite character screen animation was originally built for Gangrel however in game, the character walks upright and normal. So don't avoid an Assamite male because you think he'll be crawling the whole time.

I agree that all of the female clans should be introduced, the problem is time for a professional reskin. Last I heard the fans wanted a female Baali character so I was planning on her being in my next release but I could always do the female Assamite instead, or both if I have the time. I'm dreading doing the Samedi female reskin because of how long it took to reskin the male, plus all of the model editing in Blender I had to do. I would literally have to reteach myself Blender to do the female Samedi.

Feral wrote:

What do you have against going on all fours, Unicorn?

Unicorn? Is Temporae a Salubri?

If only Lenuska would work with tangible projects

trolling off.

I've made a shout out to Deviantart group VTMB clanclub for blender users and else, but no responses so far:/

Karavolos wrote:

Feral wrote:

What do you have against going on all fours, Unicorn?

Unicorn? Is Temporae a Salubri?

If memory serves...
Or maybe I am mistaken...

Hmmm

Feral wrote:

Karavolos wrote:

temporae wrote:

EDIT: Please, for the love of goodness, introduce female classes for all races in TFN! I had a huge issue playing as an ugly male character, especially for Assamites where he looks like he's crawling on the ground.

While I agree that female models need to be implemented, you do realize that the male Assamite won't crawl around on the ground in-game right?

What do you have against going on all fours, Unicorn?

You know how these horsy things are. Always nervous when a dog is around

-

Karavolos wrote:

temporae wrote:

EDIT: Please, for the love of goodness, introduce female classes for all races in TFN! I had a huge issue playing as an ugly male character, especially for Assamites where he looks like he's crawling on the ground.

While I agree that female models need to be implemented, you do realize that the male Assamite won't crawl around on the ground in-game right?

lol yeah, I did get that part figured out. Although it could have surprised me given that I half expected the Samedi/Nosferatu characters to be more zombie-like and walking more like that than upright.

Zer0Morph wrote:

Yeah, the Assamite character screen animation was originally built for Gangrel however in game, the character walks upright and normal. So don't avoid an Assamite male because you think he'll be crawling the whole time.

I agree that all of the female clans should be introduced, the problem is time for a professional reskin. Last I heard the fans wanted a female Baali character so I was planning on her being in my next release but I could always do the female Assamite instead, or both if I have the time. I'm dreading doing the Samedi female reskin because of how long it took to reskin the male, plus all of the model editing in Blender I had to do. I would literally have to reteach myself Blender to do the female Samedi.

It was just from a purely aesthetics point of view ZM, nothing more really. If you had plans for it, that's good enough for me *roots for Assamite female still*. Seriously though, I would rather not think about the Samedi female...it's just disgusting looking enough on the male lol (well-drawn, that's for sure). No need to re-teach yourself Blender! By All means, let the Samedi be forgotten!

Also, fyi the 'urgency' in my last post was more from not knowing how long you would have to work/hang around TFN this time around, as this is the first time I've been able to get your opinion of my feedback since I joined these forums a few months ago.

How is real life treating you these days?

Feral wrote:

Karavolos wrote:

Feral wrote:

What do you have against going on all fours, Unicorn?

Unicorn? Is Temporae a Salubri?

If memory serves...
Or maybe I am mistaken...

Too many innuendos to really bother dignifying a response with, sorry guy. But to clarify, Salubri would probably be the clan/bloodline I have the highest affinity for, ya.

Temporae wrote:

I would rather not think about the Samedi female...it's just disgusting looking enough on the male

"Aw come on, I like cuddles and long walks on the beach."

Karavolos wrote:

Temporae wrote:

I would rather not think about the Samedi female...it's just disgusting looking enough on the male

"Aw come on, I like cuddles and long walks on the beach."

...at new moon, near the fish market

-

Feral wrote:

Karavolos wrote:

Feral wrote:

What do you have against going on all fours, Unicorn?

Unicorn? Is Temporae a Salubri?

If memory serves...
Or maybe I am mistaken...

I think you mixed her up with Sally.

Dragatus wrote:

Feral wrote:

Karavolos wrote:

Feral wrote:

What do you have against going on all fours, Unicorn?

Unicorn? Is Temporae a Salubri?

If memory serves...
Or maybe I am mistaken...

I think you mixed her up with Sally.

Apparently.