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 A review...What I liked and what I didn't-

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Khantengri
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PostSubject: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:21 pm

Pros:

-Blood Healing only. About damn time. Feedhealing was too easy.
-Baali need Tremere infiltration, I didnt check my house mailbox and failed. You got me good! Very Happy
-Massive changes on play.
-Masquerade redemption with money. The chick is funny looking though.
-diverse guns and easier access.
-New clans and chars and voices. COOL!
-Nearly new storyline, re-hashed models and music.
-A lot of Skillbooks and buyable stuff
-Skill tree made much better with logical relations to talents and feats. Intelligence boosts hacking and research, the way it should be.

Cons:

-Most singularly WRONG and ...JUST WRONG Baali background. Saulot created Baali when he rightfully butchered human cultists of Namtaru and piled them in a pit and spilt blood.And they cannot use Humanity either.
-Humanity going zero from plain murder. No. Just NO. I'm a Baali first, and murder and exsanguination do not reduce humanity below 4-3, after that you become desenticized, and need much more horrifying crimes to go lower.That's the reason Troika Games made it stick to 3. You need to be far more crazed to "go Wight"(zero humanity freakout). For more info, read Hierarchy of Sins. Most Sabbat use Humanity around 3-4. Street trash mostly. If you folks could code Paths for evil vampires, it would be great.
-Money extremely hard to come by.With massive price hikes and new wares, some missions, maybe even repeatable missions should exist.
-Skillbooks are GROTESQUELY expensive.
-Firearms seem to harm you like a human. What the? I am no longer a demigod against dumb humans with popguns.
-Blood healing and blood boost should either cost less XP or have other ways to boost it. Canon-wise, Kindred spend blood to close wounds per dot. Its speed isnt changing anyway. Too few XP, too many avenues to spend XP on now.

Vampire and gaming veteran here, a tip to developers: Making everything vastly difficult all of a sudden and jacking up prices don't make anything just better. I admit on using console to improve my Salubri as Salubri are all notoriously Low Generation due to survivors being hardass. Low blood on humans just are too much for a 13th gen Salubri. Salubri should have extra dots for starters to compensate for their harder chances.
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Maxus Corvin
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:50 pm

Khantengri wrote:

-Money extremely hard to come by.With massive price hikes and new wares, some missions, maybe even repeatable missions should exist.

There is raising haggle, which allows you to both get more money, and pay less in some instances.

Khantengri wrote:

-Firearms seem to harm you like a human. What the? I am no longer a demigod against dumb humans with popguns.

Something I find rather odd, even in the normal game with the UP. Bullets should certainly do damage, and definitely kill you if you go long enough, but try going up against a dozen or so Mac-10s without fortitude, or much in the way of soaking the damage. Gets even worse here, where you can't just feed to restore health.

Khantengri wrote:

Low blood on humans just are too much for a 13th gen Salubri. Salubri should have extra dots for starters to compensate for their harder chances.

I don't know if Zero is going by anything different from Bloodlines(at least in terms of building on what Bloodlines already did), but the amount of blood points the player has, is 15. Which might suggest the character being at least 8th gen. There is a line in the clandoc file(located in 'Vampire/vdata/system') that seems to signify generation, but it isn't used in the game.



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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:09 pm

Maxus Corvin wrote:
Khantengri wrote:

-Money extremely hard to come by.With massive price hikes and new wares, some missions, maybe even repeatable missions should exist.

There is raising haggle, which allows you to both get more money, and pay less in some instances.


Oh, I didn't know that even though I played the game for years! Thanks for informing!!![/sarcasm]



Quote :
I don't know if Zero is going by anything different from Bloodlines(at least in terms of building on what Bloodlines already did), but the amount of blood points the player has, is 15. Which might suggest the character being at least 8th gen. There is a line in the clandoc file(located in 'Vampire/vdata/system') that seems to signify generation, but it isn't used in the game.

Hmmm....interesting....still Salubri are grossly underpowered as they have to be quite powerful heroic loners.


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Maxus Corvin
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:19 pm

Khantengri wrote:
Maxus Corvin wrote:
Khantengri wrote:

-Money extremely hard to come by.With massive price hikes and new wares, some missions, maybe even repeatable missions should exist.

There is raising haggle, which allows you to both get more money, and pay less in some instances.


Oh, I didn't know that even though I played the game for years! Thanks for informing!!![/sarcasm]
.

Seems I forgot the elaboration. Meaning that, it is more potent than with the normal game. It might be more noticeable with the amounts given by npc's, such as when getting money from LaCroix after the Society, you can get between 75 and 600 from him, depending on haggle.
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:33 am

I appreciate the feedback and always take these kinds of criticisms with open arms because now I know what to improve upon. I'll go ahead and repost what you wrote and respond accordingly, seems the easiest way to address what you said. Smile



Pros:

-Blood Healing only. About damn time. Feedhealing was too easy.
Haha, I agree. I haven't made an official post about this yet but in TFN 1.2, your bloodtimer is now affected by your humanity as well as your stamina score. More on this later.

-Baali need Tremere infiltration, I didnt check my house mailbox and failed. You got me good!
The Pyramid Quest was added in TFN 1.1, definitely check it out. I thought it was cleverly done personally and with a chance for Baali to earn a little extra XP. (Like they need it, HA)

-Massive changes on play.
To find more on the specifics, check out the TFN Systems posted here on the forum, you can read more indepth about them.

-Masquerade redemption with money. The chick is funny looking though.
Thanks! I hated how you only had certain opportunities to redeem yourself in the game. Now clumsy players with a high haggle can fix their mistakes with money.

-diverse guns and easier access.
This was a must. I hated how all the cool guns were given later in the game. I wanted the player to find a "good" weapon early on and become married to it. And now all guns/weapons have their strong and weak points. In fact I'm going to re-write the weapon descriptions to make their strengths and weaknesses more obvious to the player.

-New clans and chars and voices. COOL!
Getting to make new clans was why I started this project. Extra characters like Akeem, Jimmy, and Silvia were just a bonus.

-Nearly new storyline, re-hashed models and music.
I'm not sure what you mean on the new storyline, it's still Bloodlines original storyline, just approached very differently with the new clans, powers, and game mechanics, but thanks anyways! Smile The reused PC models were forced upon me. Because I couldn't get NPC models to display an animation in the character menu, I was forced to use the original 14 PC models. They turned out pretty good though, I think.

-A lot of Skillbooks and buyable stuff
Actually it's the same amount of skillbooks, they're all just listed to purchase now and I made each one personalized with it's own cover and description. If I can find spare items to use, I'd like to make even more.

-Skill tree made much better with logical relations to talents and feats. Intelligence boosts hacking and research, the way it should be.
I'm glad we agree on this, I see it much the same way. Smile

Cons:

-Most singularly WRONG and ...JUST WRONG Baali background. Saulot created Baali when he rightfully butchered human cultists of Namtaru and piled them in a pit and spilt blood.And they cannot use Humanity either.
Wrong Baali background? You mean what I wrote in the "Learn more about the TFN clans" section? I actually got that from Canon VTM websites. Weird. Maybe I'm reading this wrong.

-Humanity going zero from plain murder. No. Just NO. I'm a Baali first, and murder and exsanguination do not reduce humanity below 4-3, after that you become desenticized, and need much more horrifying crimes to go lower.That's the reason Troika Games made it stick to 3. You need to be far more crazed to "go Wight"(zero humanity freakout). For more info, read Hierarchy of Sins. Most Sabbat use Humanity around 3-4. Street trash mostly. If you folks could code Paths for evil vampires, it would be great.
I don't doubt that this is the case in the pen and paper version, unfortunately we're dealing with a video game with game engine limitations. I suppose I could go back to a 3 humanity limit, but that would break so many other things that TFN are dependent on. In a perfect world I could mod Bloodlines to be identical to the pen and paper game, unfortunately I'm limited on what I can do.

-Money extremely hard to come by.With massive price hikes and new wares, some missions, maybe even repeatable missions should exist.
Maxus already touched on this one but I'll expand on what he said. Haggle is uber important in TFN, some (Malkav) would say it's too important. If you played TFN with a Haggle of 1 or 2, then yes I could see how you would say this. Read the new TFN Haggle system in the "Game Mechanics" section of this forum to see how Haggle works. It explains how you get more money for quests with a higher haggle and how you can use Haggle to bribe people for information to advance quests.

On another note, I have been toying with the idea of adding certain repeatable quests that allow the player to earn money. Something along the lines of criminal activity which would naturally lower the character's humanity by connecting them to the criminal underground world. Things such as credit card theft, simple street muggings for money, etc... I would really like a side quest that allows the player to become a criminal kingpin in some way, and maybe even to earn a chance at getting a room at the Empire Arms Hotel as a new haven, with henchmen and whores at their disposal. I have alot of crazy ideas so we'll see what happens.

-Skillbooks are GROTESQUELY expensive.
See my above post

-Firearms seem to harm you like a human. What the? I am no longer a demigod against dumb humans with popguns.
There's been some debate on guns being overpowered in TFN (Jad). My response to this is yes, they are more powerful than in vanilla. One or two shots from a handgun is enough to kill a normal human in TFN, much closer to real life than vanilla Bloodlines was. I'll agree that gunfire is a bitch at the beginning of the game, but if you put a little XP into things that help your soak feat like Stamina, Blood Buff, or Fortitude (if you have it), then you will eventually walk around like a demigod against dumb humans with popguns by the end game. Purchasing armors also help alot in this category and 3 of the 7 clans get Fortitude.

-Blood healing and blood boost should either cost less XP or have other ways to boost it. Canon-wise, Kindred spend blood to close wounds per dot. Its speed isnt changing anyway. Too few XP, too many avenues to spend XP on now.
I took the idea of "You can't be good at everything" to heart. I personally like how you're forced to make incredibly touch decisions on how to plan out your character, and by picking this means you lose something else that's just as important. I've found myself scratching my head as to what to pick next and I love that aspect of TFN.

Vampire and gaming veteran here, a tip to developers: Making everything vastly difficult all of a sudden and jacking up prices don't make anything just better. I admit on using console to improve my Salubri as Salubri are all notoriously Low Generation due to survivors being hardass. Low blood on humans just are too much for a 13th gen Salubri. Salubri should have extra dots for starters to compensate for their harder chances.
I don't see a way to program this on a technical level but know that Salubri have the most powerful potential defensive/survivability capabilities of all of the clans in TFN. Their Fortitude combined with Obeah stacked with Bloodheal can potentially make them unkillable. Ask anyone who has actually completed TFN with a Salubri and they can tell you how extremely tankable they can be at end game. Of course you don't start out that way as a baby hatchling, you gotta earn it. Smile


I hope I answered some if not most of your questions or concerns. I'm interested to see your comments on what I wrote so stick around and answer back. Very Happy
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Maxus Corvin
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:38 am

Zer0Morph wrote:


On another note, I have been toying with the idea of adding certain repeatable quests that allow the player to earn money. Something along the lines of criminal activity which would naturally lower the character's humanity by connecting them to the criminal underground world. Things such as credit card theft, simple street muggings for money, etc... I would really like a side quest that allows the player to become a criminal kingpin in some way, and maybe even to earn a chance at getting a room at the Empire Arms Hotel as a new haven, with henchmen and whores at their disposal. I have alot of crazy ideas so we'll see what happens.

I can certainly see things like that lowering your humanity, depending on how high or low it is already, but maybe some could be cases were you can steal something, and if you learn all you can about it, it either gets rid of the humanity loss entirely, or perhaps it even doubles it(you are told that the money is for charity[-1 humanity] and finding our more reveals that if stolen, it might cause the deaths of one or more people[-2 or -3 humanity]). Certainly similar to the Gallery Noir quest, although taken a little further, in that some of the cases might have you actually stealing money that is for a charity, or money that might be a donation to a hospital(supposedly for new equipment, or for a new wing of the building), and pressing for more information could tell the player that the plans for the money isn't as nice(used to line the executives pockets, or used for a completely unneeded renovation).

Zer0Morph wrote:

Vampire and gaming veteran here, a tip to developers: Making everything vastly difficult all of a sudden and jacking up prices don't make anything just better. I admit on using console to improve my Salubri as Salubri are all notoriously Low Generation due to survivors being hardass. Low blood on humans just are too much for a 13th gen Salubri. Salubri should have extra dots for starters to compensate for their harder chances.
I don't see a way to program this on a technical level but know that Salubri have the most powerful potential defensive/survivability capabilities of all of the clans in TFN. Their Fortitude combined with Obeah stacked with Bloodheal can potentially make them unkillable. Ask anyone who has actually completed TFN with a Salubri and they can tell you how extremely tankable they can be at end game. Of course you don't start out that way as a baby hatchling, you gotta earn it. Smile

Indeed. Pour enough experience into Obeah and Fortitude, and you find that almost every enemy in the game is close to wasting their time. Even the sheriff might not get in too much damage before you beat the ashes out of him.

Still, the only part of the clan I don't like, is the limited feeding. I forget if what I read of the Salubri was that they had an issue with feeding from humans in general, or if it was just from unwilling humans that was the issue, but I think it was the latter. Although, perhaps what might be a better option is to have a history that does allow for more blood, but maybe it either puts a cap on the character's humanity(although this might be too similar to the Baali), or perhaps a limit on social skills.
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:17 am

Well for earning money, I was thinking something strictly evil, which lowers your humanity to a certain point but also earns you money. I've put some thought into how I could write some code to make it possible to steal credit cards from people, then mail them to a identity theft professional, in which he mails you money for payment. Another idea was that you can now murder people and take their money. It could be a randomized amount of money, but generally a higher amount of money given that doing it too much can drop you to 0 humanity and make you lose the game. The credit card theft quest would only hurt your humanity to a certain point, but then you could repeat it without losing anymore humanity, but would also not make you as much money. I haven't figured out the fine points of that yet but It would be a way for the player to make infinite amounts of money if they're willing to put in the time.

Maxus Corvin wrote:
Still, the only part of the clan I don't like, is the limited feeding. I forget if what I read of the Salubri was that they had an issue with feeding from humans in general, or if it was just from unwilling humans that was the issue, but I think it was the latter. Although, perhaps what might be a better option is to have a history that does allow for more blood, but maybe it either puts a cap on the character's humanity(although this might be too similar to the Baali), or perhaps a limit on social skills.

This is a really good idea. I haven't put any time yet into the expanded histories idea but this one will most likely make it in.

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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:44 am

In p&p healer Salubri can only feed on willing mortals (I think they automatically puke out the blood of any unwilling victim or something like that) and warrior Salubri are unable to refuse if someone asks them for help.
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:28 pm

Thanks for all responses! You deserve an award for the game!

Tips:

I break in a Russian Mafia or Glaze club. Now please, dont tell me their luxurious suite doesnt have thousands of dollars in stock. My advice would be raiding a drug cartel or nightclub to grab tons of cash.

Its a downer when I break in Russian Mafia safe and find...

200 dollars.

Others:

Fat Larry's job could bring in 500 like the companion mod.

Random valuables in hotel suites and luxurious residences.

Tong holdouts should have cash drawers.

Random cash on enemies (told before)






Base Tip: Inflate the money! Just add a zero to all money amounts(Except blood bags)! Its so damn silly Troika made it.

Also, congrats on voices! You need more people just so you can make even sequels to the game! Maybe a Sabbat mod.
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:59 pm

Dragatus wrote:
In p&p healer Salubri can only feed on willing mortals (I think they automatically puke out the blood of any unwilling victim or something like that) and warrior Salubri are unable to refuse if someone asks them for help.

Militant Salubri in days of first Baali wars carried skinfulls of animal blood to combat and wilderness training, so I guess livestock cleanly killed dont count bad.
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:46 pm

Zer0, you remember!!! I love you
You have to hit the sweetspot to kill a human instantly, otherwise it can survive multiple gunwounds... potholes Smile
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:59 am

Jad.3 wrote:
Zer0, you remember!!! I love you
You have to hit the sweetspot to kill a human instantly, otherwise it can survive multiple gunwounds... potholes Smile

An elephant never forgets! elephant

HAHAHAHA!!!!

As far as locational based damage, which is what I think you're referring too, I've looked in the files and it shows that heads shots count the same as body, arm, leg, etc... shots. They are all 100%.
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:36 am

Quote :
Quote :
I don't know if Zero is going by anything different from Bloodlines(at least in terms of building on what Bloodlines already did), but the amount of blood points the player has, is 15. Which might suggest the character being at least 8th gen. There is a line in the clandoc file(located in 'Vampire/vdata/system') that seems to signify generation, but it isn't used in the game.

Hmmm....interesting....still Salubri are grossly underpowered as they have to be quite powerful heroic loners.

...You may want to put more into Fortitude and Obeah. Then the Salubri would be a nigh unstoppable tank.
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:23 pm

Looks like the fledgeling is about to start his own mod. Nevertheless,

Zer0Morph wrote:
As far as locational based damage, which is what I think you're referring too, I've looked in the files and it shows that heads shots count the same as body, arm, leg, etc... shots. They are all 100%.
it's actually there? Do you feel tempted? Smile How come that when I was shooting szlachta in the Hollywood sewers, sometimes I hit for 25, sometimes a clean 80 kill?
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:29 am

Jad.3 wrote:
it's actually there? Do you feel tempted? Smile How come that when I was shooting szlachta in the Hollywood sewers, sometimes I hit for 25, sometimes a clean 80 kill?

Yeah it's actually there but I don't think it's used. I've never felt tempted to try honestly, I guess I left that up to Fallout 3 to have locational damage.

As far as the szlachta goes, that's strange that you hit for 25 with one round, then 80 with another of the same bullet and gun. I know you can hit enemies anywhere from 0 (enemy soaked the entire damage) to maximum that the weapon will do (enemy soaked nothing). Obfuscate can give you a huge bonus too but I'm sure that wasn't the case here. Weirdness....
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:45 pm

My thoughts on firearms and other miscellaneous subjects in Bloodlines/TFN:

1) Humans should die VERY VERY easily from guns. Period.
2) Guns technically should NOT be able to kill Kindred (but then, nor should fists, tire irons, baseball bats, or falling damage - it's all bashing damage for vampires, which cannot do permanent harm; but then again, that's another limitation with adapting the p&p system to a video game).
3) Using money to increase the difficulty of acquiring skill books has always seemed rather artificial to me. In real life, if I really wanted to, I could go to the library (or even just Google) and increase all sorts of skills for free. Perhaps increasing the dependency on Research would be a bit more realistic, and still keep the late-game difficulty on par. I'm still a big fan of what Malkav did with the college in CE, though, so perhaps I'm biased.
4) I don't believe Blood Heal should be an upgradeable Discipline. In the p&p game, one Blood Point heals one Health Level. I do love having Blood Heal as an option as it is more in line with how the p&p game works, but I just don't like the idea of it being a full-fledged Discipline. But then, maybe I'm just being picky.
5) Going back to bashing/lethal damage: I don't know if this is at all feasible, but I would love to see a new mechanic for those that does not result in Final Death, as only aggravated damage should do that. If it's possible, perhaps make it so that if your Health drops to zero from non-aggravated damage, instead of Final Death the character simply goes into long crouch like how essential NPCs in Skyrim do. I don't believe there is an animation like that in Bloodlines, though, so that may be downright impossible. I dunno. I just absolutely detest how vampires can die from things that they should simply be able to shrug off, even without armor and Fortitude.

[/endrant]
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:15 pm

http://mediafire.com/?b6j8tfu1dejjj6u

Here is the Baali clanbook Zer0morph. It is radically different from your Clan description.

The Samedi aren't Giovanni made either, but are the Cappadocians fleeing into Caribbean, defying the Feast of Folly.


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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:25 pm

I put up a link in a topic in the Dark Room for several VtM books, the Baali is included.
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:16 pm

Voraxith wrote:
My thoughts on firearms and other miscellaneous subjects in Bloodlines/TFN:

1) Humans should die VERY VERY easily from guns. Period.
I can agree to this. Even if a hit to the arms or legs usually isn't deadly, it still incapacitates you. As a human, you can't just go along with broken arms or legs, or a bullet in your stomach.

Quote :
2) Guns technically should NOT be able to kill Kindred (but then, nor should fists, tire irons, baseball bats, or falling damage - it's all bashing damage for vampires, which cannot do permanent harm; but then again, that's another limitation with adapting the p&p system to a video game).
From a p&p gamer's point of view you're of course right there. But even so, what happens if they keep on bashing until your blood is used up, or the sun rises (which doesn't happen in bloodlines)? I don't believe it's possible to make bashing damage unable to kill the pc. But it is possible to increase the soak pool for certain types of damage. Btw, falling damage in bloodlines is a category of its own, and is considered lethal by the game. And for each type of damage there are two forms. The damage for humans and for kindred.

Quote :
3) Using money to increase the difficulty of acquiring skill books has always seemed rather artificial to me. In real life, if I really wanted to, I could go to the library (or even just Google) and increase all sorts of skills for free. Perhaps increasing the dependency on Research would be a bit more realistic, and still keep the late-game difficulty on par. I'm still a big fan of what Malkav did with the college in CE, though, so perhaps I'm biased.
Hm, there are also requirements for research on the books. And at least in TFN they are so high that it just doesn't pay to bother with the high grade books at all. And using the college in CE also costs money. You can't even lower the price with haggling.
The main difference between the two systems is that with the college you have more freedom in selecting what you want to increase, and when. And you can select if you want to increase your research, or if you are prepared to pay for low research with a higher blood cost and the ensuing frenzy risk.
To be honest, while I prefer the choices of the college to the limitations of the books, I'm still not completely happy with it. But I didn't have a better idea yet.

Quote :
4) I don't believe Blood Heal should be an upgradeable Discipline. In the p&p game, one Blood Point heals one Health Level. I do love having Blood Heal as an option as it is more in line with how the p&p game works, but I just don't like the idea of it being a full-fledged Discipline. But then, maybe I'm just being picky.
In any case, I think bloodheal is better than the feed-healing from the vanilla game. And I think for a computer game, which is more combat related than the typical p&p campaign, the healing ability should increase with experience. So while it's not perfect, I think for a game like bloodlines, bloodhealing as a full discipline is the best way to do it.
Another question for that matter is, if bloodheal should be instant, instead of increasing the healing speed for a given time. Though I'm not sure now if this can be implemented.

Quote :
5) Going back to bashing/lethal damage: I don't know if this is at all feasible, but I would love to see a new mechanic for those that does not result in Final Death, as only aggravated damage should do that. If it's possible, perhaps make it so that if your Health drops to zero from non-aggravated damage, instead of Final Death the character simply goes into long crouch like how essential NPCs in Skyrim do. I don't believe there is an animation like that in Bloodlines, though, so that may be downright impossible. I dunno. I just absolutely detest how vampires can die from things that they should simply be able to shrug off, even without armor and Fortitude.

[/endrant]
Even if this can be arranged, the npcs stay hostile and keep on hitting your character, even if they can't kill him. So you get caught in an endless loop. And any npc with the necessary knowledge (hunters, ghouls, kindred, most other supernatural enemies) would have a means of applying aggravated damage once you are down. A simple fire-lighter and a can of hair spray or two would do the trick Twisted Evil

- geek

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Maxus Corvin
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:29 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Quote :
5) Going back to bashing/lethal damage: I don't know if this is at all feasible, but I would love to see a new mechanic for those that does not result in Final Death, as only aggravated damage should do that. If it's possible, perhaps make it so that if your Health drops to zero from non-aggravated damage, instead of Final Death the character simply goes into long crouch like how essential NPCs in Skyrim do. I don't believe there is an animation like that in Bloodlines, though, so that may be downright impossible. I dunno. I just absolutely detest how vampires can die from things that they should simply be able to shrug off, even without armor and Fortitude.

[/endrant]
Even if this can be arranged, the npcs stay hostile and keep on hitting your character, even if they can't kill him. So you get caught in an endless loop. And any npc with the necessary knowledge (hunters, ghouls, kindred, most other supernatural enemies) would have a means of applying aggravated damage once you are down. A simple fire-lighter and a can of hair spray or two would do the trick Twisted Evil
- geek

Although I certainly do understand how much sense it makes, how would the player get themselves out of it, save for reloading a save? If they are not "dead" yet, then should it really require going back to a previous save? Also, what if it happens in a place were getting any kind of help is impossible? Although I don't know what kind of help would be needed, since adding parts of the CompMod just for that wouldn't make sense(as it could still be that you do not have anyone with you when this happens), and it isn't likely something that is planned or wanted anyway.

Also, why would they keep hitting you, if you look dead already? Other supernaturals or hunters I can see, but just humans? Probably not.

Overall, although it would bring it closer to the source material, it wouldn't really work, since it would play like the final death does now, in that once it happens, you can only reload a save to continue playing.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:00 pm

Ok. You can program the game so that humans stop hitting you when you're down. But even then, most humans would do something to get rid of the "corpse". And that can easilay lead to aggravated damage even for people who don't know you're kindred.

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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:21 pm

Is there even an animation for the PC models to lay on the ground?
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:12 pm

The whole "only crouch from anything else than aggravated" thing sounds like a bad idea imo, I get the closer to P&P thing, but it kinda ruins the survival instinct to me.

Khantengri wrote:
The Samedi aren't Giovanni made either, but are the Cappadocians fleeing into Caribbean, defying the Feast of Folly.

While I feel inclined to agree with the theory, there's not really been any Word of God confirmations on it.
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:22 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Quote :
2) Guns technically should NOT be able to kill Kindred (but then, nor should fists, tire irons, baseball bats, or falling damage - it's all bashing damage for vampires, which cannot do permanent harm; but then again, that's another limitation with adapting the p&p system to a video game).
From a p&p gamer's point of view you're of course right there. But even so, what happens if they keep on bashing until your blood is used up, or the sun rises (which doesn't happen in bloodlines)? I don't believe it's possible to make bashing damage unable to kill the pc. But it is possible to increase the soak pool for certain types of damage. Btw, falling damage in bloodlines is a category of its own, and is considered lethal by the game. And for each type of damage there are two forms. The damage for humans and for kindred.
The corebooks say that many Elders underestimated automatic rifles just once. Hear this: I took him by surprise (a lot of aiming), but I took down a Brujah with my AK in P&P. Took two mags but only one more turn after I emptied the first one in him. Poor frenzied bastard.
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:44 am

Khantengri wrote:
Here is the Baali clanbook Zer0morph. It is radically different from your Clan description.

The Samedi aren't Giovanni made either, but are the Cappadocians fleeing into Caribbean, defying the Feast of Folly.

I thought the new world Cappadocians were the Harbinger of Skulls. Well either way, my clan description and background info located in the "Create a New Character" section of TFN was the result of my online research. Maybe I got the wrong information but I'm not too worried about it. Same goes for the Baali.
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PostSubject: Re: A review...What I liked and what I didn't-   Today at 2:18 am

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