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lofgren
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PostSubject: Change weapon stat   Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:17 pm

Does anybody know if it is possible to change the stat that a weapon bases off of? I have looked at the item files and at first it seemed easy but I'm not really sure. Changing the entry in the damage line (e.g. "2 Lethal Close_Combat_Melee DMG_SLASH" to "2 Lethal Close_Combat_Brawl DMG_SLASH") does seem to have an effect on its damage, but it does not change the requirements info in the inventory ui (still says "melee combat requirement" and lists your feat adjustment based on that stat).

I feel like it might be neat to make some weapons base off of brawl (I was thinking knife, maybe the swords) in order to increase the variety of weapons that are useful in the game. You often get weapons after they have lost all usefulness, or gain another weapon shortly thereafter that is much better. You get the katana knockoff shortly after or even just before you get a knife, for example, and brawl being relegated to bashing damage only makes it a suboptimal choice for everybody but gangrel (supposedly offset by a greater chance of successful feeding, but I have never really had a problem feeding). If the knife could be used as a potential upgrade for your fists, it would make brawl a lot more attractive.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:04 pm

Hm, making the knife brawl based seems to be a good idea, but not the swords. And you state it yourself, you get the knife at about the same time as the first of the swords, so it would still be quite useless as a weapon if you made the swords brawl based, too.
For the game mechanics, I'll look into it and come back to you, if I find something.

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lofgren
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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:17 am

My thinking with the swords was that then at endgame you would have a choice between the bushhook and that magic sword that does aggravated damage. Since the swords and the knife (and the police baton, I suppose) are the only weapons that are actually built to be weapons, I thought it would make a nice conceptual divide. Actual weapons vs. improvised brawling implements like a fireaxe or a sledgehammer.

However it does seem like that would make brawl too superior, and I suppose you could justify the knife because it is the only other close fighting weapon.
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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:23 am

lofgren wrote:
Does anybody know if it is possible to change the stat that a weapon bases off of? I have looked at the item files and at first it seemed easy but I'm not really sure. Changing the entry in the damage line (e.g. "2 Lethal Close_Combat_Melee DMG_SLASH" to "2 Lethal Close_Combat_Brawl DMG_SLASH") does seem to have an effect on its damage, but it does not change the requirements info in the inventory ui (still says "melee combat requirement" and lists your feat adjustment based on that stat).
I've run a few tests, and found the same things you figured out, too. You can change the stat the weapon uses to calculate the damage, but the description seems to be tied to the items name.
When I tried to rename the knife file to item_w_claws, the character moved protean-fashion and I even got the claws graphics when I attacked someone. But the description in the inventory still said: melee.
So you can use the knife (or any other weapon) as an extended brawl, but it will always show up as a melee weapon in the inventory.

Thinking about your suggestion, I have another idea for increasing the value of unarmed combat. we could change one of the less common rings into a powerup for unarmed. I think I'll make a few tests on that and keep you informed.

- geek

Edit: I've moved this topic from questions to ideas.
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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:09 pm

What about adding a brass knuckles item?
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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:24 pm

That's what I was thinking about. But I couldn't find the english word. Problem is, you'd have to make it as a brawl or unarmed feat powerup, or you have to use one of the "claws_protean" items and end up with that funny hopping as soon as you equip it

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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:27 pm

Couldn't you just copy the "fists" item, but change the damage type to lethal?
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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:34 pm

I'll have to work on it. Will keep you updated.
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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:37 pm

Don't feel pressured. Just spitballing.
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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:23 pm

One of the big problems with modding items is, that you can't just create a new one, even if all the models are there. You can only change existing ones, so for any new weapon I try to create, I'll have to remove another one. No
That's the reason why I said, I'd have to use the protean claws. It's the only item_w not used for a weapon. No matter which weapon I take out of the game, someone will probably shout "Where is my favorite gun?" or "Why did yo kill the severed arm? It's the best form of unarmed combat ever invented." Twisted Evil

I thought I could use the throwing star, but the game doesn't accept it as a legal item even if it appears in the items folder.
I'll go through further tests when I got the time, but for a 1.3 version of CE, a powerup for brawl/unarmed is probably better than a new weapon.

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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:29 pm

Personally, I like the severed arm because it's hilarious. But it's also useless. Rather than the knife, it would make a lot of sense for the severed arm to be the "improved brawl" weapon, and to just convert it to lethal damage instead of bashing. I don't have a good explanation for why a severed arm would do lethal damage while an arm that is connected to your body still would do bashing damageā€¦ but it does solve two problems at once.
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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:56 pm

The problem is, the arm would be gone. I'd have to use the item but replace every model... with the fist, or it would still register as a melee weapon in the inventory description. Same thing as with the knife. The arm was just an example for the problems I'd face if I delete an existing weapon to make room for a new one; and a bad one at that, because I think it's necessary to find it in the Hollywood sewers, when the tape guy gets caught by the monster.

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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:14 pm

If the only problem is the inventory description, it really doesn't matter. I believe you can alter the flavor text (white text that says, "Some knives are never used for a malicious purposeā€¦"), so I would just add a line to that to disregard the weapon stats. Since it's the arm, it could even say something like, "This screwy arm has it's weapon stats all messed up. Why would their be a melee requirement to fight unarmed?" Just leave the model and everything except else as-is.

The problem with a straight brawl powerup is that no matter how many dots you have in the feat, it's still just bashing damage. It would have to be a major powerup to justify ever using bashing damage when you can just grab a weapon and cut right past many of your enemy's soak feats.
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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:53 pm

I don't really get on with this. I've tried everything i could think of. Even making the claws of the Chang brother available as a standard weapon. no success so far.
So it seems there are only two ways of making brawl more attractive:
1) making the knife brawl-based, but leaving the description as it is
2) transforming the fancy ring into a brass knuckles item (powerup, not weapon) and giving it a substantial bonus like 150% brawl-damage

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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:07 pm

If you could make the rings a stackable bonus it would be hilarious They stack in your inventory anyway, so wearing more bling - more pain!
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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:27 pm

8people wrote:
If you could make the rings a stackable bonus it would be hilarious They stack in your inventory anyway, so wearing more bling - more pain!
That can be easily shut off. I just have to set "is stackable" in the items description to zero, so only one ring, only one bonus. I never intended to make this kind of bonus usable more than once.
My first thought on turning the rings into powerups was +1 unarmed feat per ring with a maximum of 4 rings for 4 fingers.

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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:59 pm

+10% bonus damage max five?
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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:47 am

again, i wanted to pose a question without opening a new topic, and this was the only topic i could find that matched, but it still appears on topic.
and then reading this topic inspired me some thoughts.
since very early in the game i only use firearms. and my computer being very slow, that includes when the foe has managed to close the distance to close combat and ins inflicting upon me brawl or melee damage. what i usually do is incapacitate him with discipline, freeze him, and then finish him off by firing upon him.
staying on topic, i only use melee weapons for stealth kills. and while the damage the weapons inflict is not an issue, a staelth kill is a sure kill, still the animations differ, there is one different animation per kind of melee weapon used in the stealth kill.
but getting back to my question, i just completed Hallowbrook Hotel quest, and to combat Andrei i decided to us the Flamethrower. And it hapened a lot, that he would close on me and start inflicting brawl damage at close quarters, i would freeze him with either Lingering Malaise or Hysteria, and then would fire the Flamethrower upon him. the thing is, he would often be standing almost within touching distance. and it was my notion that the Flamethrower was exceedingly ineffective at such close quarters. to finish him off i had to learn to freeze him with a discipline and then put some distance between the both of us by withdrawing a few steps, and only then to use the Flame thrower on him, to get any sense that the Flame thrower was indeed damaging him at all.
and on that same note, i also felt that the falme thrower had a limited range, it also could not strike him when he was too far away.
can anyone confirm that the Flamethrower indeed only has a very short range and does not inflict damage beyond a certain distance on one hand, and on the other hand is notoriously ineffective at very close quarters?
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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:10 pm

Velvet wrote:

can anyone confirm that the Flamethrower indeed only has a very short range and does not inflict damage beyond a certain distance on one hand, and on the other hand is notoriously ineffective at very close quarters?

Flamethrower is so imbalanced, that I don't use it at all.For a firearm it is really weird that your ranged feat doesn't increases damage much (it increases by 1%) and unlike other firearms in hands of any clan and any character type flamethrower is so overpowered,because it has extremely high damage and can kill easily anyone from huge groups of enemies to Ming Xiao/Sheriff.Also aiming,range effectiveness,using while moving is same regardless of your ranged feat.

And yes flamethrower has short range, and I think damage is same regardless of your target's distance.
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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:36 pm

Well, I think the Steyr is the most effective firearm at almost every distance. And you can only carry one tank of spare fuel for the flamethrower. So why bother with that thing?

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PostSubject: Re: Change weapon stat   Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:28 am

well, i just thought i should give it a try, is all.
but frankly i feel so disapointed with its performance that i think i won't be doing it again.

thanks srle for your enlightenment.
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