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 changes in old quests????

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Velvet
Antediluvian
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:55 pm

er...

i had trouble getting nines to teach me melee....
what dialogue options would lead there?
or as this aspect been dropped in TFN?


on another note.
i recently stumbled upon an idiom (native tongue one, which i will literally translate, though it might not be the right way to put it, nor the correct corresponding idiom...)
it's like this:

i trace arabesques with my writing.
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Velvet
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:55 am

claudia,

but anyone else...

this is the selfpublished story that earned more accolades....

(since you said, until i am published and acknowledged)

SunRise
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Claudia
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:12 am

Fanfics are not published material. Anyone can put babbles online and claim themselves to be authors. You're not.
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Velvet
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:25 pm

claudia...

i don't know how it works for you....

see,
to me,
and others far better,
there is a distinction:

to be.
to do.

unfortunately, nowadays, people get those mixed, in several senses of the word.
(some people are only what they do, whichs is to say, almost, they are not, they do something. or another way to put it, there is a wonderful side to it.... take sentences like, married to his carreer... people who ARE wgat they do, what they do is infused with all their beings....)
but i digress.

a most common mix of to be with to do is,
well,
like you side,
i would only be an author if i did that for a living, if i had works published under my true name, through the scrutiny of an editor, with the send off help of a publisher, have both critical and readership notice, acclaim and appraiase, and, there we go back to the beginning, earn enough from it to make a living.
in my view, you are mixing being a writer with doing writing.
under that appreciation, i am the first to say, i am not an author.

but
to me
you are operating under a misconception, a misaprehension.

i...
have a relationship with a goddess that sends me, now and then, inspiration.
i have a sort of access to the world of forms, the world of ideas and souls
where story ideas live

every so often, one of such stories has presented itself to me
or i have caught a glimpse of it.
i have nurtured it in my mind, and not just conscious mind, also in my unconscious, what writers would call the back burner,
for a time,
the same way a mother carries a child in her womb while it develops
i have tried to cartograph the story
and then present as good a map of it as i can

and then
because i would not presume to own the story the same way no mother should have the presumption to own her child

and also because
the whole
editor scrutiny
publishing machine
(don't get me started on that one)
(i will: industry that wants as many customers as possible, and assumes the average, and ergo majority, of the human race are rather dumb so will only buy to consume dumb products)
(on the subject of editor scrutiny... ambivalence... depends on the editor, i would guess, but, to have to appeal to just one person in order to get published??)


wanting to send my story to the world
wanting to share it with the world

under an assumed pen name
i published it in a self publishing domain

(and you know what?
not too long ago, a respected fantasy and science fiction magazine, and his respected ctitic, said exactly the opposite.... a writer whose work was TOO GOOD was forced to self publish... and then herself engender a marketing campaign... that critic was all too happy to help in that, divulge her work...)

and i published probably half a dozen stories
and got acclaim for them....

in that sense,
i AM, oh so very much i AM, an author.

and you are entitled to that opinion.
i just dismiss i9t out of hand.


under that assumption, i could say that, even though apparently you have done story telling for white wolf itself, you ARE NOT a story teller, story telling is just something you do.

and to me it is quite beneath the point how good you are at that which you do.
just because it is merely something you do,
i don't even care anymore the quality.


(and some things you said about your way of story telling suggested to me you lacked the right atitude towards story telling that would entitle you to in my view say you ARE a story teller.)


it is not just because you do story telling that you are a story teller.
quite frankly
i am now convinced,
even if you do do story telling,

you most certainly are not a story teller



(not too long ago, i read a note from an author about a story she wrote:
the character had introduced itself to her, and demand she the writer tell her the character's story, which the author had been compelled to tell
too often have i stumbled, writers writing about their stories, the characters had gained a life of their own, took the story where the writer in the beginning didn't intend the story to go
that to me tells me, they ARE authors.)

(your.... atitude, to story telling....
fell a little short, on that regard...)
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Claudia
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:28 pm

Would someone translate that in clear nice intelligible sentences with clear ideas, proper vocabulary and punctuation ? Sorry I don't have the patience or reading you so called 'poetry'.
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:43 pm

Sorry, too much work.
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SaulottheGentle
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:12 pm

I do have much time, being in Nach's place, but I specifically have none for Tremere. :3
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:25 pm

Why so bitter? It's not like we murdered your parents or anything.
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:49 am

Dragatus wrote:
Why so bitter? It's not like we murdered your parents or anything.

Shocked

Only nearly full Clan...
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Velvet
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:51 am

claudia

in a nutshell then

i AM more an author than you are a storyteller, no matter at what level you DO it.

check out
infinity publishing
sara kuhns
a sigh for life's completion

before you dismiss self publishing



(and if you feel its too much a bother, or, anything of the sort....
well, how to put it?
the worse dumb ignorant blind is the one who does not care to look at
or something....
by all means, from the top of your self satisfied conviction of your know it all, there is no need to look beyond....)


Last edited by Velvet on Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:52 am

the rest of you...

don't allow for past grievances
to taint present relatiosnhips....
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:02 am

Velvet, my child, how have I allowed you to roam the world freely for so long? R'lyeh beckons you home, child. Return to from where your mindness stems.
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Velvet
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:06 am

do know that henceforth a part of me, some of my minds, will forever more dwell in your kingdom in abeiusance of you, but....
the whole of me, my fleshly form and all the minds wherein encased
still have a mission in this world,
one of its tenets to further your aims,
i must sorrowfully decline your invitation,
claiming as sole explanation
allegiance to you
and devotion to further your cause
in this here shadowy realm....
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:45 pm

And what, dear Velvet, is your so important mission on earth? Annoying the nice lady of the immortality usurper's clan?

- geek

_________________
- geek

Tuesday is Soylent Green day.
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Velvet
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:55 pm

mission?
as in,
something to do?

oh, dear ancestor, in this regard you are so way off the mark...

i'm here to
not exist
not survive,

but

to live

and, most of all,

to merely BE.
(which is so much more than...)

pity those who feel affronted for who i am
their problem

what i say and do i do not to relate
but to express who i am
if someone takes issue with it
their problem
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:42 pm

*Throws up white flag*

Don't hiss at me my darlings for jumping in but when you post something online, that is a legitimate form of publishing. All publishing is is simply taking your intellectual works and putting them out there in a media form others are allowed access to. One can absolutely publish their own works as an author or in my case, composer. Forums such as this are an excellent environment to publish literary works for the reading pleasure of targeted audiences. You don't have to go through "pro-publishing" to be published. I personally consider "Pro-Publishers" equivalent to those who practice the art of "Corpse Bothering." It's nasty business. I stay clear of both whenever possible. HA HA So Yes! Velvet is a published author and Yes! Claudia is also a published author. Authors are Storytellers study

Velvet, I've been in the fan fiction section of this site but confess I haven't linger. I will to spend more time in our "library" section so I can read your works.
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:30 am

aneumann01 wrote:
I personally consider "Pro-Publishers" equivalent to those who practice the art of "Corpse Bothering." It's nasty business. I stay clear of both whenever possible.

So what you're saying is that you're not a Giovanni?

As for the whole what counts as published, I believe the crux of the issue is quality control. There are thousands of bad fan-fictions floating around the internet. Should the people who wrote them be considered published authors? I don't think so. But if someone writes a good book and self-publishes it online then yes, they should count as a published author. And then we have the unfortunate case of things like Twilight, where I'm afraid we still have to count the writer as a published author because someone was willing to invest in her books and apparently a lot of people were willing to pay money to read them.

So as a rule of a thumb I propose that in order for someone to count as a published author, someone else had to be willing to pay them for their writing (this can be a publisher who prints your book, people who buy your e-book online or something else entirely).
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:53 am

Dragatus wrote:


So as a rule of a thumb I propose that in order for someone to count as a published author, someone else had to be willing to pay them for their writing (this can be a publisher who prints your book, people who buy your e-book online or something else entirely).

There is a merit to your suggestion.
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:58 am

I don't despise self publishing on the net (aka "opening a blog and put stuff online"). I think it's great that anyone can post stuff and shit. For the same reasons I won't say every deviantart account is one of an artist. BUT it is true that there are awesome stuff on dArt and on fanfiction.net. The fact that Wen-m is on DeviantArt doesn't make all accounts ever created on that site legit authors/artists/photographers (ditto with Instagram).
Velvet just ain't one of those great artists out there on the Internet. She doesn't qualify for good writer. And in my sense she doesn't qualify even for writer since she has no communication skills whatsoever.
Velvet ain't Wen-m, nor Ken Meyer Jr, and she ain't Maxus (I have a hard time following his stories but it's good work !). She ain't the guy who made the awesome VTM the musical thing on fanfiction either. She's just one of many self-centered people who post something and consider themselves the best thing since sliced bread.

I'm more of an author than she is, since people have PAID so I would Story-Tell them a VTM game, I have reviews and quotations on my Tremere the Pyramid Essay. My characters have had fanarts (and not only by my players ! and not by request !). And I don't consider myself an author at all because being an author is both hard efficient and effective work and talent.

Just cuz you can clic "new topic", and copy paste something in it, be it Lorem Ipsum, and give it a title, doesn't make it "published work".
But I do admit that "official published work" can be sometimes crap, and the fact that it's popular and bought everywhere doesn't make it any better, cf. twilight and stuff. However, until you have praising reviews, great critics, a fandom and a whole lots of views on fanfiction, nope, you're not an author, and you don't do art. You babble, you fishmalk stupidly, you don't get what a Malkavian is, yet you claim it. You sexually harass Zer0 while you perfectly KNOW he's in a relationship. You're just a creepy person. And not "good artist creepy" (like Lady Gaga or Murakami, or lots of dubstep songs), but just.. random.
You don't listen everysingletime we tell you TO USE THE FUCKING EDIT BUTTON INSTEAD OF TRIPLE POSTING. To use proper punctuation.
As someone else put it : "she is saying that you're not a good ST. In fact, she was saying that even though she hasn't authored anything, she's a better author than you are an ST. She was trying to say that some people "do" things while others simply "be" them, thus implying that even though she wasn't written anything, she was born to be an author."


Sometimes you have good ideas, sometimes you say interesting stuff, but then you ruin it all, you take everything on the first degree and seriously, instead of seeing the message, you just stop at one word and babble around that word, and you just don't get it. You just don't listen. You're not creative, you're autistic (I mean the medical definition, it's not an insult nor "something bad").

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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:30 pm

Claudia,

That was a brilliant response baby. I nearly snorted coffee through my nose when I got to the third paragraph. HA HA HA A genuine response indeed. I like people who say where they're really coming from instead of dumping out the insults and never touch the heart of their issues.

For the sake of general conversation, I have to say that Publishers will only do what you either can't afford to do or are too lazy to do yourself. That's why they make big money. I know plenty of authors who became their own publishers. They went to a printing company, ran off as many copies as they could afford of their book. They then loaded it up and went around to bookstores and sold their works. Essentially that's what a publisher does for you only they save you the gas mileage. As the profits roll in, he gets a hefty cut of the book sales before you see a dime. Many times, he gets more than his share, especially if you're a new author but promises you'll make lots of money if you keep writing for him. When the internet became a popular/"Respectable?" media outlet, some authors bypassed the paper versions of their works because it's just so dang cheap to publish online. When they built a fan base, they used that to their advantage to sell future works and gain profits. The twilight author was smart. She picked a great audience: young girls. They're simple to write for and easily hooked on the "latest thing." If she was writing for adults, she wouldn't have made as much money as she does. It's unfortunate to say this but because you can't filter out crappy authors online, the internet is somewhat of a cesspool that can never be cleaned out.

When I was younger, I use to write. Creepy poems and short stories. I published a few online on a site where readers would vote on their favorites. I placed third and second place several times but I think I creeped some people out so I never got first. HA HA HA
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:02 pm

Feral wrote:
Dragatus wrote:


So as a rule of a thumb I propose that in order for someone to count as a published author, someone else had to be willing to pay them for their writing (this can be a publisher who prints your book, people who buy your e-book online or something else entirely).

There is a merit to your suggestion.
Been to the Pirate Bay lately?

Childe of Malkav wrote:
And what, dear Velvet, is your so important mission on earth? Annoying the nice lady of the immortality usurper's clan?
A noble quest indeed! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:05 pm

Jad.3 wrote:
Feral wrote:



There is a merit to your suggestion.
Been to the Pirate Bay lately?

So you are saying that to be a recognized author you need to be pirated too? What times do we live in!?
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:13 pm

I'm saying that there are authors that give their works out free of charge!
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:35 pm

@ aneumann01 1 thank you for coming in my aid and then attempt to negotiate a peace treaty between me and claudia

anyway.
for example, i trust the editorial acumen of some editors of some magazines i subscribe/buy from newsstands,
and i am aware of the term slush pile, and like panning for gold nuggets amidst it.
but as for novel length i reiterate my earlier point, which i see subscribed, they "buy" what they think it will sell, and that all too often is dumb...
...
i will also agree that too often it is stuff too bad to be published otherwise, while sometimes it is too good...
or a new way to think about publishing...
the answer to napster
so, they want to publish something for free?
so WE publish something for free....
we find that editors / publishers are biased
we publish on our notion of our own merit...

(my story is the last thing you find in the fanfiction, it was the first thing published there, actually that section was created for that...
but i would advise you to follow the link...)

i diggressed....

@ dragatus and feral....
totally sidetracked: i wouldn't touch napster, would make a point to go top itunes....
gawds there are ways to access works published on the net for small fees...
i'll quote source
james patrick kelley on the net asimov's science fiction elaborated on net publishing...
creators are entitled to earn something for the work they created...
i already made a case for the need of quality control....

@ claudia
i would be the first to call myself autistic
but i make no claim of being better than
i just make a claim of being
and i make no claim of being extraordianry, or special, or...
any other things than just this:
i am who i am that i am.

and you are being...
you actually don't believe that the link i posted was to a story i wrote under a different alias?
that one in particular has been favorite-ed and reviewed...
i would call you....
i don't know....
in that denial....

and...

people in this thread are.... splitting hairs, or not doing it enough, or saying the same thing in ways so different that they sound different things, or saying different things in ways that make them sound similar....

let me try to categorize....

ANYONE who has ever published ANYTHING in the internet in ANY format is a published author.
no matter how horrible the quality, or even the fact that no one ever read it (difficult in internet, there are people who will look for everything, leaving no stone left unturned) and even more, that it eventually was deleted.

you seem to be confusing authors with categories of authors
good authors vs bad authors
professional authors vs amateur auteurs
acclaimed authors vs neglected authors vs vilified authors
authors that do it for love vs authors that need compensation
this one is difficult
only work that people are willing to pay for should be considered work?
what about authors needing to be monetarily compensated for their work?
creativity, man-hours, the need to make a living out of their work....
side tracked again...

(and what about idiot savant?)

oh, and...
getting stuck in a word and babble?
you as an author...
believe it or not
scientific background
awareness of
concept
and its definition.
i don't just settle for consensual definitions,
i try to present my own definitions to.... any and all concepts...
(and i make no claim that mine are better)
they are mine...

i don't doubt, like you do, that you are a professional storyteller, though i don't bother to search for evidence, while you dismiss out of hand my authorship of that story....
i even am willing to grant you are damn good at it.

it's just that....
you... seem to feel you are GOD in the stories you tell, pointing players along paths you want them to thread (and even God gave man free will...)
while to me an author
(and some talented people agree)
i see myself as a vehicle for the stories to write themselves.
god forbid i should be comparing myself
and i would the first to admit....

you know what?
to each his own (taste)
some people might find my fiction execrable
and if they explained to me why...

(you never even bothered to admit i could have authored the story i posted the link to...
autistic, to me...
neither to read my story here...
not even to see i have a story published here under this monicker, velvet...)

if i deffended my work
is like a parent deffending their children....
gods no parent enjoys hearing their children bad mouthed...

i digress...

@ aneumann01 2

i enjoy your impartiality...
i guess claudia did make a good case
and she sure claimed.... moral? professional? high ground from which to...
self important self righteous self.....
and did she really enunciate the toes where i step that make her cry out in anger?

i agree with everything you said afterwards re internet publishing....
though there is a teenage girl in me, fed on too many disney fairy tales, that is seriously tickled in a very good way by twilight saga...
or.... shame on me... did i buy / fell for the hype???
discerning me????

anyway
if
unlike claudia
you are willing to admit i did the same thing you did
wrote some short stories and some poems
self published them in respectable outlets for such ends
and gained a measure of acclaim for that
check out
fanfiction - ineendubh
fictionpress - rearden


@ jad.3
i guess i adressed your point...
publishing online indeed all too often piracy, a way to circunvent having to pay for reading / listening / watchiong something

and then

you are only an online author if you somehow get paid for your work?

what's the inconsistency in that reasoning???


oh and thank you for your pledged alliance.....
claudia is indeed someone who feels so self important for all her accomplishments she thinks she is entitled to lay the law and the standard...

indeed there is a side of me that can't help poke at that...

wait!!!

dragatus named her usurper!!!
you bet i am in a quest to depose the usurper



@
claudia again

i was too dumb to take the hint to understand that zer0 was in a relationship
anyway
you also missed the point
there was no hint of eroticism (him wearing my skin notwithstanding)
and not even any hint of romance
your filthy mind oops your....
saw them there.
(i never even used the word love.... did i???)

gawds....

i can love....
(a catchphrase of mine: snow is so important to eskimos they have dozens of words for snow, each for a different kind of snow, there should be as many words for love...)

beloved friends, i have in facebook....

and not the first time a girlfriend felt jealousy for my friendship with her boyfriend....

you obviously missed when i said platonic....

and the allusion for bear being mother, way over your head...

@ feral 2

see????

we are back to where we began
or on a tangent altogether....

or mired in quicksand....

see, claudia?

it is not only me "babbling" on the word author....

apparently, what it means to be author when it comes to self published on the internet....

(lol put 9 jews arguing about the bible and you get 10 opinions, or something like it...)

i will make clear this:

everyone is unique
identity, personality, character, life history... some other less important things, like, position or recognition....
and that is their unique vantage point from which they look at the world
every one has their unique Point Of View
and ev erybody inhabits their own reality
everyone has its own unique definition for each concept

claudia, i am horribly offended that i was trying to say i was better than you, or that my view was better than yours

to me that unique individuality is sacrosant
i wouldn't...
anathema, to say that mine is better
anathema, that everybody should follow mine...

i am DEFFENDING mine with teeth and claws because it is mine
god forbid i should be taken to be trying to impose mine on others, commit such aggression...

and to argue this case to at least reach a consensual?
then i will abandon this discussion!!!

@ claudia....
yup some of your.... utterances...
aneumann callled them insults....

but in the end

i would respectably agree to disagree with you...

to me the only acceptable result to an argument is to agree to disagree

to me
arguing is more like a game of i show you mine you show me yours....
(without the pejorative tone... or the competitive one...)

i present to you my view
you present to me yours

we both win
get to know each other better
see the world from another's point of view.

if it feels like i am at war with you
i will not have anyone impose theirs on me (or anyone else)

@ jad3

thanks for alliance on that count....

@ jad3

see??
the others, see??
jad apparently can conceive of authors and not gain from it!!!
and in a way it is a most commendable atitude!!!!
to give one's story for free.....

to release their children into the world,

to spread Stories far and wide...

to give of their creativity and work without expecting compensation.....



but i also argued above....

they should indeed be entitlteld to compensation....

gawds i hate money
but you do need it to get things that you need...


just to know the Stories are out there!!!!

or to gain recognition....
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Voraxith
Antediluvian
Antediluvian


Posts : 799
Join date : 2012-03-20
Age : 35
Location : Boise, Idaho

PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:14 pm

Velvet, she criticized your ability as a writer. I've read your writing, and while I have no desire to be cruel or mean-spirited, honestly, I find it extremely painful to read. I spent a year as a volunteer tutor helping people learn the necessary skills to write an essay for a state-sanctioned educational test. I'm fairly well-versed in proper grammar and mechanics. You lack these skills. Your ability to string a proper sentence and paragraph together are roughly at a 5th grade level. I have proofread some of the most disturbingly disjointed paragraphs ever written, and your writing gives me a headache.

As for your criticism of her Storytelling abilities, I think you are being grossly unfair, and frankly, quite uninformed. A Storyteller in a White Wolf game, for all intents and purposes, is God. That is the role of that person. From what you've written, I can only conclude that you have never actually participated in a tabletop role playing game. So please refrain from passing judgment on something you know nothing about. I have been gaming for nearly twenty years. I've become a pretty good judge of a good ST/DM/GM or whatever term one prefers. Claudia is damn good. There are also good players. It doesn't matter how good the ST is if you don't have good players. A role playing game, especially in the World of Darkness, is all about mutually developing a quality and entertaining story. I think we're doing a pretty good job.

So I am asking you to please stop lambasting Claudia with unwarranted personal attacks when all she did was criticize your grammatical skills. Because to be blunt, she's been nice. Were I to have had you as a student, I would not be so nice.
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PostSubject: Re: changes in old quests????   Today at 9:58 pm

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