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 Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?

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SaulottheGentle
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PostSubject: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Sun May 05, 2013 7:53 pm

This topic is simply meant for fun and/or debating upon for the NPCs within the game. There will be no name calling, flesh rendering, dominating, dementationing or soul stealing. However, this can be used as a means for finding out why certain people simply are. Such as what path of enlightenment Ming Xiao follows or how Venus simply knows you're capable. Let's begin, shall we?

The four thinbloods:
Copper
Julius
E
Lily

Two Plaguebearers:
Bishop Vick
Jezebel Locke

Two Anarchs:
Tsundamsel What a Face
Skelter

Sabbat:
Messy Sabbat (Simple Clothing, only a shirt and pants)
Grotesquely Handsome Sabbat (Black Hair, Dark blue Jacket, white undershirt and black cargo pants)
Sabbat Miniboss (Carbon copy of Tremere PC, but with different color scheme)

Misc:
Venus (Simple discussion, I feel as if she doesnt get enough love)
Ming Xiao (What she exactly follows in the terms of powers and things in Kuei-Jin terms)

For certain things, I'll leave these ideas of mine for their clans.
For Lily, and by extension, E, I believe them to be Thinblood Toreadors. Rolf is described as "beautiful" by Lily, as well as having a sports car and generic Toreador must-haves. Not to mention the Malkavian PC states her as E's "Dark Muse"

For Bishop Vick, he's an enigma when it comes to clans. He manages to rally other people under his cause, has Celerity and gets people with his Prescence, implying him to be a Brujah. However, people call him "beautiful", like how Toreadors use their Prescence to inflict, and not to mention himself taking the mantle of "God", possibly pointing him towards Clan Toreador.
As for Jezebel, she does have Presence and uses it for enticing beauty, possibly looking at Toreador. However, her "consorts" dont exactly remember how the sex went, as well as a possible Malkavian PC naming her "The Wicked Queen", pointing towards possibly being a Ventrue with her blood preference being Prostitutes.

Then there's Damsel. she does act like a Brujah, complete with a meltdown when confronted with Lacroix's secret Kuei-Jin Alliance. However, I find it hard to understand as to why she didnt frenzy at all, even when you went for options to intentionally piss her off. The Malkavian PC even intentionally goes for it, as if sensing that she wont do anything even when pissed. I believe that either she has spectacular self control, or that really an Anarch Toreador.
As for Skelter, well, he is also an enigma. He definitely seems to hate oppression as much as next Anarch, but unlike most, he doesnt seem to fit as a Brujah. He also states being in Vietnam, which for the most part was fought in the wilds. To finish this argument, in the case files, he's listed as a Gangrel.

For the Messy Sabbat, we mostly see them with the limping gait, elongated claws and activated Fortitude of the Gangrel. However, a few have Potence active. More or less, they mostly are Brujah Antitribu or Gangrel Antitribu.
For the grotesquely handsome sabbat, a few use Fortitude, but they mostly have Auspex and Celerity active at the same time. One after the trio of the Lasombra has Auspex, Celerity and Presence active, possibly pointing them towards Toreador Antitribu.
As for the Sabbat Miniboss. Most say Tremere Antitribu. Well, I honestly dont know about this one, but IIRC, they were all purged sometime after 1999. And the game takes place sometime in or after 2004.

Finally, for Venus and Ming Xiao. I honestly cant see how someone, no matter how desparate, could hire a normal human being, no matter how talented, would hire them to take out an entire gang force in a penthouse hotel. Desperate, yes. Foolish? I don't think so. I feel as if Venus is...what are they called? Hunters who can see past the veil that the supernaturals weave, yet do nothing about it. If anything, I feel like she makes a tidy and happy business out of it. Which can help describe how Venus hired the PC so quickly.

As for Ming Xiao...this is mostly speculation. She seems to follow the Song of the Shadow, a dharma where the followers are cold and analytical, and mostly comprised of those who died with lives unsatisfied. She also seems to follow the Flesh Shintai disciplines, allowing her to change her form at a whim, most likely the reason for the Malk PC calling her "The Mistress of Mirrors".

What are all of your thoughts when it comes to their clans?
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Sun May 05, 2013 9:23 pm

SaulottheGentle wrote:
For Lily, and by extension, E, I believe them to be Thinblood Toreadors. Rolf is described as "beautiful" by Lily, as well as having a sports car and generic Toreador must-haves. Not to mention the Malkavian PC states her as E's "Dark Muse"
Good argument, these two are now Torries in my mind What a Face

SaulottheGentle wrote:
For Bishop Vick, he's an enigma when it comes to clans. He manages to rally other people under his cause, has Celerity and gets people with his Prescence, implying him to be a Brujah. However, people call him "beautiful", like how Toreadors use their Prescence to inflict, and not to mention himself taking the mantle of "God", possibly pointing him towards Clan Toreador.
I wouldn't put it above several Brujah to play god.
But I really donno if he's a Brujah, Toreador or otherwise.

SaulottheGentle wrote:
As for Jezebel, she does have Presence and uses it for enticing beauty, possibly looking at Toreador. However, her "consorts" dont exactly remember how the sex went, as well as a possible Malkavian PC naming her "The Wicked Queen", pointing towards possibly being a Ventrue with her blood preference being Prostitutes.
Errhuu... I guess? Maybe?
She is far more similar to a Toreador imo, but I suppose it is a possibility perhaps. Maybe..

SaulottheGentle wrote:
Then there's Damsel. she does act like a Brujah, complete with a meltdown when confronted with Lacroix's secret Kuei-Jin Alliance. However, I find it hard to understand as to why she didnt frenzy at all, even when you went for options to intentionally piss her off. The Malkavian PC even intentionally goes for it, as if sensing that she wont do anything even when pissed. I believe that either she has spectacular self control, or that really an Anarch Toreador.
It's all but outright stated that she is a Brujah, will take downright confirmation for me to believe otherwise.

SaulottheGentle wrote:
As for Skelter, well, he is also an enigma. He definitely seems to hate oppression as much as next Anarch, but unlike most, he doesnt seem to fit as a Brujah. He also states being in Vietnam, which for the most part was fought in the wilds. To finish this argument, in the case files, he's listed as a Gangrel.
I really don't know what to think of Skelter's clan. Either seem entirely plausible to me; though I've more or less accepted TCI's view of him as a Gangrel.

SaulottheGentle wrote:
For the Messy Sabbat, we mostly see them with the limping gait, elongated claws and activated Fortitude of the Gangrel. However, a few have Potence active. More or less, they mostly are Brujah Antitribu or Gangrel Antitribu.
I've always thought of them as Gangrel Antitribu, but I wouldn't call it far fetched to say Brujah, especially not since Andrei the Tzimisce is their leader.

SaulottheGentle wrote:
For the grotesquely handsome sabbat, a few use Fortitude, but they mostly have Auspex and Celerity active at the same time. One after the trio of the Lasombra has Auspex, Celerity and Presence active, possibly pointing them towards Toreador Antitribu.
Never seen them use Celerity, but if you say so.
The GH can be pretty much anything as far as I'm concerned.
The Lasombra trio pretty much confirm it with their name. Granted it is possible that three Toreador Antitribu learned Obtenebration, but I find it far more likely that the Lasombra learned Auspex, since it's the more average discipline of the two.

SaulottheGentle wrote:
As for the Sabbat Miniboss. Most say Tremere Antitribu. Well, I honestly dont know about this one, but IIRC, they were all purged sometime after 1999. And the game takes place sometime in or after 2004.
inorite
Still, White Wolf tend to leave things to the storyteller, and I have heard of people having a rare Tremere Antitribu post-1999.
Buchea, I totally get what you're saying on this.

SaulottheGentle wrote:
Finally, for Venus and Ming Xiao. I honestly cant see how someone, no matter how desparate, could hire a normal human being, no matter how talented, would hire them to take out an entire gang force in a penthouse hotel. Desperate, yes. Foolish? I don't think so. I feel as if Venus is...what are they called? Hunters who can see past the veil that the supernaturals weave, yet do nothing about it. If anything, I feel like she makes a tidy and happy business out of it. Which can help describe how Venus hired the PC so quickly.
Venus is pretty much like Damsel in that I will need the word of god before I class her as anything besides human.
Besides, she only hires the PC for the penthouse after they proved themselves being capable of beating up armed Russian Mafia bruisers in a three-on-one.
Leading to what-I-imagine-being a "What else do I have to lose" scenario.

SaulottheGentle wrote:
As for Ming Xiao...this is mostly speculation. She seems to follow the Song of the Shadow, a dharma where the followers are cold and analytical, and mostly comprised of those who died with lives unsatisfied. She also seems to follow the Flesh Shintai disciplines, allowing her to change her form at a whim, most likely the reason for the Malk PC calling her "The Mistress of Mirrors".
I know little to nothing on Kuei-Jin fluff.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Mon May 06, 2013 1:16 am

Some good guesses, although in many cases there's just not enough evidence to be sure. Yet the clan stereotypes exist for a reason -- Kindred tend to Embrace those who best 'fit' their clan's ideals.

For the thinbloods on the beach, you're probably right about E and Lily. They could all be Caitiff, but those two seem to be caught in their romantic melodrama. The fact that E can't leave Santa Monica until he speaks to Lily shows a good deal of Humanity. The same applies to Julius... whether he collaborates on the screenplay to express his creativity, or to help uncover those who turned him, his method displays an artistic bent. I hope Copper is Caitiff, because I'd be embarrassed if he's Brujah... although his quest to kill the 'head vampire' is almost like the typical Brujah 'cause'.

I notice you left out Rosa. I think everyone is aware that she's Malkavian, with her sporadic insight into the future.

I'd always assumed Bishop Vick to be Toreador. Even when cornered, he never switches from shotgun to melee weapons or fists, like I would expect from a Brujah; I think he's low Strength and high Perception (ranged weapons), which would fit Toreador better.

I'd guess Toreador for Jezebel too, although Ventrue is possible. She does pick a high-class hotel for her haven.

As Karavolos said, Jack all but states that she's Brujah, and her temper fits. I think the reason she never frenzies has more to do with game mechanics (no NPC ever actually frenzies, as far as I'm aware, even if they attack you) rather than her self-control.

Skelter: The game files say he's Gangrel; no proof to say otherwise. He also has yellow or golden eyes, like a wolf.

As for the Sabbat: I'd say the 'messy' ones are most likely Gangrel Antitribu, due to the claws. City Gangrel is possible (a mostly Sabbat bloodline) but unproven due to no Celerity or Obfuscate displayed. For those displaying Potence, Catiiff is most likely -- or maybe they were just ghouls before their Embrace, and picked it up then.

The so-called 'handsome' Sabbat (like the one killed by Nines when he saves the PC) are likely Toreador antitribu -- they use Presence and Celerity often, and prefer ranged weapons to fists or knives. Like the Gangrel, any oddities are probably due to them being Caitiff.

The Sabbat 'miniboss' (I LOL'd at that title, 'cuz he's a wimp) is definitely Tremere antitribu, with Lure of Flames. Yes, I know canon has them all perishing underneath Mexico City, but you know there are always going to be a few who just can't make the trip, or never got the word until too late... or they had a bad feeling, and were too scared to attend. That's an Auspex ability, you know.

Venus: I think the most likely scenario is that she knows a little about the World of Darkness -- that some supernatural creatures exist, perhaps -- and she figures out that the PC is one of them, especially after taking out Igor and his buddies in the parking lot. Maybe Patti talked too much before you killed her/sent her away. Or maybe you just told Venus you drink blood, which is one of the ways you can get the job to take out Igor. Either way, if Venus doesn't know you're not human before you kill Boris, she probably does afterward. One guy/gal taking out 9 Russian gangsters? Please.

Ming-Xiao: I believe you are correct in saying she is a Bone Flower (Song of the Shadow dharma); and her skill in Flesh Shintai is obvious in the way she mimics Nines. She knows Demon Shintai as well, because her Boss form is obviously her demon (P'o) form. Her Direction (function in Kindred society) is a little harder. Wong Ho tells you that Ming-Xiao 'guards their traditions', which would seem to indicate a 'North' direction; yet her intellect, leadership, and her liking for the color red (her dress) might indicate a 'South' direction. Hard to tell.


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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Mon May 06, 2013 7:52 am

SaulottheGentle wrote:
The four thinbloods:
Copper
Julius
E
Lily
For Copper and Julius, I don't know. They're too much in the dark to give any hint about their lineage. The only thing you can guess upon is E mentioning that they got chased out of their cities by the Sabbat. So they're probably victims of some mass embrace for Sabbat shock troops.
For Rolf, Lily's sire, I'd think he is also connected to the Sabbat, maybe some Toreador bloodline. Never thought about it. Saulot's arguments on it are quite plausible. I take the Sabbat hints from Lily's journal where she writes about his group and that she is considered a liability.
For Rosa, the last thinblood, well there have been enough discussions about her over on PV, but nothing as yet has convinced me that she is or isn't a Malk thinblood.

Quote :
Two Plaguebearers:
Bishop Vick
Jezebel Locke
Until now I've never thought of them being anything but Toreador. On the other hand they do work with brother Kanker. The argument about the rabble rousing in the case of Vick might be valid, but Toreador also are known to play games with mortals.
For Jezebel being Ventrue, I can't see a Ventrue accepting a Torrie, and especially a Brujah as their Leader. And with enough Presenc, I don't think Dominate is necessary to have a mortally ill human not clearly remembering what happened there.
So for me, both stay Toreador.

Quote :
Two Anarchs:
Tsundamsel What a Face
Skelter
Well, Skelter afaik is mentioned as Gangrel somewhere.
For Damsel, she just lacks the style to have been embraced by a Toreador. And for her restraint, she is forced in the role of Nines' lieutenant, so she has to keep her temper under control. She knows she just can't rip a representative of the prince to pieces in an anarch Elysium without risk of starting open war with the Camarilla. And she knows that is NOT an option with the Sabbat and the Kuey Jin around.

Quote :
Sabbat:
Messy Sabbat (Simple Clothing, only a shirt and pants)
Grotesquely Handsome Sabbat (Black Hair, Dark blue Jacket, white undershirt and black cargo pants)
Sabbat Miniboss (Carbon copy of Tremere PC, but with different color scheme)
The shovelheads really can be anything. Only sure thing is that the ones in warform most probably are some Gangrel bloodline. The other disciplines, Potence, Celerity, Auspex, and even Presence are so common that you really can't juge anything by it. Even ghouls can learn them.
For the miniboss. most probable choice is Tremere antitribu. But there are also other undead sorcerours. Tzimisce, some Assamites...[/quote]

Quote :
Misc:
Venus (Simple discussion, I feel as if she doesnt get enough love)
Ming Xiao (What she exactly follows in the terms of powers and things in Kuei-Jin terms)
I don't know anything about kuey Jin, so no idea about Ming Xiao, exept that I get pissed by her superiority complex the moment my character first sets the eye on her. Same as for Lacroix, who I hate as soon as I enter his "throne room"
Venus certainly doesn't know about kindred. She's desperate, and often the player not only has dealt with Igor and his two sidekicks, but also is recommended by Larry after stealing the briefcase from the gangs in the parking garage.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Mon May 06, 2013 12:17 pm

PGM's suggestion about Julius's collaboration with David is a good point. For Copper, I wouldn't know... although Rosa obviously seems Malkavian... I'm not sure how else to account for the fact that (at least some of) what she tells the PC is spot on.

E. and Lily: I agree Toreador is a good possibility. The sports car does seem to support the idea. And since there might be something of a trend for some Toreador having bright red hair (the male PC, and arguably Jezebel and Damsel) her orange hair would be very fitting as a thin-blood.

Vick I always pegged as Brujah--the fact that he's described as beautiful doesn't convince me much, since some humans even fit that description. His disciplines could go either way, but his scruffiness, tattoos, and manner of speaking seem a bit odd for a Toreador, and his goals fit a demented Brujah pretty well (you don't get more iconoclastic than trying to create your own Armageddon). It is strange that he only uses his shotgun, but that thing was enough to kill me several times when I played... having to actually fight him hand-to-hand would've been nasty.

Jezebel I always assumed to be Toreador... especially given the way she talks. We certainly know Toreador can be classy, given that Isaac's little alleyway office has stained glass windows and such.

As far as Damsel goes... I also tend to consider that game limitations rather than part of her personality, since she seems awfully close to the edge at times. It would be poor form anyways--in-game, she would have to defy their "anarch Elysium" to do it, and technically, you'd probably be stuck with no way to defend yourself, since the game disallows fighting while you're there. (Plus what would you do, kill her?) Her red hair does seem a bit Toreador-esque, but then that can also be a stereotypical trait for hot-tempered people in general.

For Skelter, the only thing that doesn't seem to fit the Brujah possibility is his eye color (yellow), but that's all over the place (even plenty of human characters have yellow eyes). As far as him being Gangrel at some stage in the game's development... there is a game file that identifies Barrabus's cell key as "Bertram's cell key", so we do know a few of those comments are inaccurate as far as the final details of the game are concerned--while it's definitely good evidence, for me it isn't 100% unquestionable.

The "Messy Sabbat" really seem like Gangrel to me... I'm not sure why they'd look so lanky and misshapen otherwise (plus, geez, they even howl). We do see warform Gangrel in Hallowebrook, so some antitribu Gangrel are definitely floating around over there. It could be that the lanky ones are the fellows who just aren't experienced enough to have warform yet.

The "Grotesquely Handsome Sabbat" are all over the place, discipline-wise. Some seem to have Dominate (judging by the red glow)? Others have Celerity (the ones that shoot at you when you're coming down hallways, if you get too close will often use it to escape you), Fortitude (I think?), Presence, and Obtenetration--if not that disappearing trio in Hallowbrook, then the guy near your apartment in Santa Monica. The comments in the python scripts for the Hallowbrook level do identify some of them (the disappearing trio, I believe) as Lasombra... I suspect they represent members of two clans (Lasombra and Brujah antitribu) who just happen to look the same, hence all the disciplines.

The "Sabbat Miniboss" I just figured was an antitribu Tremere; since the anti-Tremere are supposed to be "extinct" I can see them using that as a nasty surprise (even though the PC isn't savvy to details like that). Or who knows, he could have been Andrei's fledgling. Razz Probably not, since I think Andrei would mention something like that, but it's kind of a funny idea.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Mon May 06, 2013 1:34 pm

I meant to include the howling done by the 'messy' Sabbat, but I forgot. Yes, Gangrel seems likely for most of them. Caitiff could have any discipline of course.

Maybe I just don't like the Idea of Bishop Vick being Brujah. I still think it could go either way: tattoos are a big fad right now, and not out of character for a Toreador... and the scruffiness could simply be due to his sickness and general death wish. Vick's so-called 'beauty' could be all Presence. His manner of speaking sounds almost exactly like a fundamentalist preacher, talking about hellfire and damnation. This may be one reason I enjoy hating the character.

I hated his shotgun too... his aim is too good. You go after him with a low Stamina and low Bashing Soak, and you will die.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Mon May 06, 2013 3:22 pm

Well...

*pees at an entry post to the board*


I agree with the so far conclusions. To add my $5

As for Thinbloods, Time of Thin Blood mentions clairvoyance among their strange abilities, and a reason why elders fear them. So Rosa could be of any descent.

I always thought Skelter to be Gangrel. First for his eyes, but more for fiercely independent demeanor.
Technically, he could be a Brujah, although I doubt.

Sabbat are known to share Disciplines almost freely among Packs. So, unlike power hoarding Cam Kindred, Cainites could not be identified by them. Books on Sabbat say that explicitly.

Venus is, or was, a Ghoul. She was intended to have Sabbat Ghoul plot line, but it was binned due to Activision derived fast release pressure. I remember Zer0 undigging that in the files. So she knows how to play with the get of Cain.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Mon May 06, 2013 6:22 pm

Feral wrote:
Venus is, or was, a Ghoul. She was intended to have Sabbat Ghoul plot line, but it was binned due to Activision derived fast release pressure. I remember Zer0 undigging that in the files. So she knows how to play with the get of Cain.

Steps over puddle. Dammit, what is that puddle doing there?

Had a suspicion she knew about Kindred, from the dialog. Nice to see my Masquerade sense is working.
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Mon May 06, 2013 6:57 pm

Duncan.Oliver wrote:
Feral wrote:
Venus is, or was, a Ghoul. She was intended to have Sabbat Ghoul plot line, but it was binned due to Activision derived fast release pressure. I remember Zer0 undigging that in the files. So she knows how to play with the get of Cain.

Steps over puddle. Dammit, what is that puddle doing there?
Waiting for Kent Allan Rian to stain his loafers.

Duncan.Oliver wrote:
Had a suspicion she knew about Kindred, from the dialog. Nice to see my Masquerade sense is working.
Hm, I'm not sure about that. If I recall right, there is some email contact between Venus and Isaak about the Sabbat's arrival in the files. But on the other hand, in the dialog files she seems not to know anything about Nossies.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Tue May 07, 2013 4:42 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Duncan.Oliver wrote:
Feral wrote:
Venus is, or was, a Ghoul. She was intended to have Sabbat Ghoul plot line, but it was binned due to Activision derived fast release pressure. I remember Zer0 undigging that in the files. So she knows how to play with the get of Cain.

Steps over puddle. Dammit, what is that puddle doing there?
Waiting for Kent Allan Rian to stain his loafers.

You made me a very happy puppy with that theory... lol!

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Duncan.Oliver wrote:
Had a suspicion she knew about Kindred, from the dialog. Nice to see my Masquerade sense is working.
Hm, I'm not sure about that. If I recall right, there is some email contact between Venus and Isaak about the Sabbat's arrival in the files. But on the other hand, in the dialog files she seems not to know anything about Nossies.

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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Wed May 08, 2013 12:41 pm

On the topics of Copper and Julius, I can see some of that stuff happening with Julius, maybe being a Toreador.

As for the idea of Copper being a Brujah...well, there IS such thing as double standards. A weak willed Brujah concept can be doable.

And on another note, bad puppy! No peeing on the topics board! *Flicks Ferals nose and goes off to get some cleaning detergent and a mop*
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Wed May 08, 2013 3:02 pm

SaulottheGentle wrote:

And on another note, bad puppy! No peeing on the topics board! *Flicks Ferals nose and goes off to get some cleaning detergent and a mop*

*sits and does the big, hurt, sad puppy eyes, looking at Saulot*
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Thu May 09, 2013 10:44 am

Feral wrote:
SaulottheGentle wrote:

And on another note, bad puppy! No peeing on the topics board! *Flicks Ferals nose and goes off to get some cleaning detergent and a mop*

*sits and does the big, hurt, sad puppy eyes, looking at Saulot*

*Le sigh, cleans up puddle*

I need to work on self control when it comes to puppies.

*Takes out a bone treat and proceeds to pet Feral*
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Thu May 09, 2013 3:26 pm

SaulottheGentle wrote:


*Le sigh, cleans up puddle*

I need to work on self control when it comes to puppies.

*Takes out a bone treat and proceeds to pet Feral*

*cuddles Saulot, wags, eats the bone and licks the poor Salubri into the floor wagging and whining all the time*
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:23 pm

Folks, I just realized we forgot somebody. Surprised

Or maybe not "we", but at least I did. What about Sweeper--that annoying dude with the sunglasses who nags you when you first come to Hollywood? Is it just generally assumed that he's Toreador?
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Karavolos
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:33 pm

Torrie or Brujah I imagine.
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Childe of Malkav
Beyond Caine
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:05 pm

Hm, he does have Presence, and I doubt that he is Ventrue or Setite.

- geek

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SaulottheGentle
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:28 pm

Ettinarius wrote:
Folks, I just realized we forgot somebody. Surprised

Or maybe not "we", but at least I did. What about Sweeper--that annoying dude with the sunglasses who nags you when you first come to Hollywood? Is it just generally assumed that he's Toreador?

I honestly wish I could rant on the Toreadors in the game, but it would get out of topic then.

But let's just say on my first playthrough, I was highly fed up with being the local bitch for everyone who had functional bodies yet weren't using them, so I proceeded to take my frustration out on the dude. He used only Auspex and Presence, but no Celerity, so I'm guessing that calling him a Toreador would be correct in wording. Thanks for pointing him out. :3
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ThePhilosopher
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:38 pm

SaulottheGentle wrote:
I was highly fed up with being the local bitch for everyone who had functional bodies yet weren't using them, so I proceeded to take my frustration out on the dude.

I quite enjoyed reading that
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SaulottheGentle
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:51 pm

ThePhilosopher wrote:
SaulottheGentle wrote:
I was highly fed up with being the local bitch for everyone who had functional bodies yet weren't using them, so I proceeded to take my frustration out on the dude.

I quite enjoyed reading that

*Buries head into Feral's fur and proceeds to scream*

Today is just not a good day.
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Feral
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:07 pm

SaulottheGentle wrote:
ThePhilosopher wrote:
SaulottheGentle wrote:
I was highly fed up with being the local bitch for everyone who had functional bodies yet weren't using them, so I proceeded to take my frustration out on the dude.

I quite enjoyed reading that

*Buries head into Feral's fur and proceeds to scream*

Today is just not a good day.

*wakes up with a start*
*sniffs Saulot intently to check if everything is OK*
*proceeds to nuzzle and whine softly, comfortingly*
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:42 am

ThePhilosopher wrote:
SaulottheGentle wrote:
I was highly fed up with being the local bitch for everyone who had functional bodies yet weren't using them, so I proceeded to take my frustration out on the dude.

I quite enjoyed reading that
I don't mind the possibility of attacking and killing that guy. But the reaction you get from Isaak is IMO completely wrong for several reasons.
First, he should care more about his employees than some paperpushing Camarilla cape.
Second, killing a cop is a severe crime in almost every civilized society. And the sweeper is something of a cop in Isaak's domain.
Third, you are there on official orders from LaCroix. So attacking one of Isaaks enforcers is effectively a declaration of war.

So, the least of consequences should be that Isaak demands an official apology from the prince, before he even considers talking to the player.
And that will bring you so low in your standing with the guy that you can never regain any status there. Plus the threat of a theate-CUTscene in case you do more stupid stuff...

- geek

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Maxus Corvin
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:05 am

SaulottheGentle wrote:
ThePhilosopher wrote:
SaulottheGentle wrote:
I was highly fed up with being the local bitch for everyone who had functional bodies yet weren't using them, so I proceeded to take my frustration out on the dude.

I quite enjoyed reading that

*Buries head into Feral's fur and proceeds to scream*

Today is just not a good day.

I just had a nice meeting with the floor. Pity it is so damn cold at the moment.

The laughs aside, I don't think you can write this shi...oh right. Why do I get the feeling now that I'm nothing more than words on a pa...a jumble of characters that input text onto digital page, made up of invisible numbers, one empty yet full of potential, and the other so damn lonely.
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Jad.3
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:08 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:
ThePhilosopher wrote:
SaulottheGentle wrote:
I was highly fed up with being the local bitch for everyone who had functional bodies yet weren't using them, so I proceeded to take my frustration out on the dude.

I quite enjoyed reading that
I don't mind the possibility of attacking and killing that guy. But the reaction you get from Isaak is IMO completely wrong for several reasons.
First, he should care more about his employees than some paperpushing Camarilla cape.
Second, killing a cop is a severe crime in almost every civilized society. And the sweeper is something of a cop in Isaak's domain.
Third, you are there on official orders from LaCroix. So attacking one of Isaaks enforcers is effectively a declaration of war.

So, the least of consequences should be that Isaak demands an official apology from the prince, before he even considers talking to the player.
And that will bring you so low in your standing with the guy that you can never regain any status there. Plus the threat of a theate-CUTscene in case you do more stupid stuff...

- geek
Consider it a freebie from Troika. Or WW. An apology for all the rest. I too enjoyed dusting that fckin' torrie weakling...
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SaulottheGentle
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PostSubject: Re: Debate topic on VtMB NPC clans?   Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:00 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:
I don't mind the possibility of attacking and killing that guy. But the reaction you get from Isaak is IMO completely wrong for several reasons.
First, he should care more about his employees than some paperpushing Camarilla cape.
Second, killing a cop is a severe crime in almost every civilized society. And the sweeper is something of a cop in Isaak's domain.
Third, you are there on official orders from LaCroix. So attacking one of Isaaks enforcers is effectively a declaration of war.

So, the least of consequences should be that Isaak demands an official apology from the prince, before he even considers talking to the player.
And that will bring you so low in your standing with the guy that you can never regain any status there. Plus the threat of a theate-CUTscene in case you do more stupid stuff...

- geek

To help Malkav's description, when you choose the dialogue option in the introductory sequence (if you killed the Sweeper first), he barely bats an eye at his death.

And for an entire summary of Issac without ranting, he is not a good person by Anarch standards. Just look at his dialogue tree in Notepad and note on his actions and how they are unanarch like, and you'll see why.

Feral wrote:

*wakes up with a start*
*sniffs Saulot intently to check if everything is OK*
*proceeds to nuzzle and whine softly, comfortingly*

You really are a good puppy, you know that?
*Pets on the head and gives blood pop*
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