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Claudia
Caine
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PostSubject: Diablerists post    Wed May 22, 2013 5:42 am

Hello !

This is the email I got. My remarks have >>> in front of it. Zero ?

^^



~~~~~~

I was just going to post on "the good, the bad and the ugly" but it looks to be locked.

I think it could be relevant for a couple of my questions/statements, so I feel the need to tell you I have only played this game 1 1/2 times since its release (1/2 when it first came out and just finished Cam Edition with a Gangrel) so I do not have a profound amount of exposure or knowledge about it.  I have been a loyal WoD fan since the original "Vampire the Masquerade" release (yes, all the lines and I do own every book, but always think first of Vampire when WoD or WW is brought up).  That being said....

--Going into TFN I optimized my character to try to take advantage of the Email Collage.  I find out that it no longer exists after playing for hours.  I had found no mention of this in the notes that I read about the game.  Now I have all this time invested into a Semedi character that is built wrong for the situation.  It makes me sad.
>>> the email college (collage is something else) is a Malkav feature for CE. TFN isn't based on CE so it doesn't have it. That's normal.  

--What was the significance of  "Restored Scholarship title removing Academics title"?  Just a name change or did its function change also?  If only a name change, why did you even bother?
>>> this is important to WOD lore. But yes that's just a name change. 

--"Starting money depends on Haggle feat"....uh, what starting money?  The money Marcucio leaves in your desk drawer?  If I am correct on this you tried to make everything in this more realistic and you do something like this?  What are you "Haggling" over before you even meet him?
>>>> it's "your money" as mercurio states. Probably the money the PC had before being embraced and staked. Your starting money changes depending on how much money the character might have had in his life > that's haggle. 

--Why do you only have male characters for some of the clans?  I think the Sire of the PC Semedi was a great rendition that would have been pretty awesome even if it was a copy of an NPC.
>>> Zero didn't create all models but that will change for the next version. The salubri only have a female as well as the Isshtari ^^

--I have a pretty damn good understanding of Humanity and how it -should- work and I cannot comprehend why a PC with 3 Humanity or lower would loose a Humanity automatically because it "excites the beast"?  Would it not make more sense that the PC would risk Frenzy rather automatically loose humanity?  I have to question your understanding of the Humanity system at all on this one.  Personally I think it weakens your argument over all about your intention on trying to make things more realistic, perceived, stated or otherwise.  A vampire with that low of Humanity would give no thought to (putting it nicely) some poor bastard getting shot in the face while feeding on them by a crap shot local cop.  Could you go a little further with your reasoning mechanically/system/balancing/anything.

>>>> engine limitations mostly.  I'll poke zero.

--"Items only appear if Inspection feat is high enough."  Appear?  I don't think they even exist unless you have Inspection high enough.  If something is sitting right out in the open you can't even accidentally find it?  Your integrity on "realism" is slipping even further here in my opinion.  After reading through this Forum I have confirmed my guess on why you did it this way, but would moving the objects to new places be that hard?  I think this would have been a better option than this.  Not being able to see them at all, let alone walking right over them (or at least where they should be) and not even getting the minute chance that your reticule could inadvertently pass over it and let you find it.
>>> can you accidentally find a 50€ bill in a trash can you're not searching through for ? They don't appear (aka you can't find them) if your character doesn't have the necessary stat. Inspection is worthless for veteran players who know where to find everything. Zero changed it so that trait is necessary/useful. He ALSO moved the objects around. But just moving them wouldn't be enough.
 

--What are the "new items" that are in the four Hubs and by "laid out" I assume you mean they do not exist either until your PC has the Inspection feat high enough.
>>> yepe. 

--"All weapons have a use, no weapon is worthless."  To what effect?  Do they all "guest star" in a mission?  Possibly integral in a specific fight?  Used to solve a puzzle or something like that?
>>> nope, it means there is no "better to all point" weapons. Some are heavier and harder to use, some have a better range but lower damage... All have different circumstances. 

--What is the "Completely new violation system".  I fed off a guy in Santa Monica from behind him as he walked by me, I was hiding in the tiny alley between the Tattoo Shop and the tunnel that goes nowhere with the only people around walking in the opposite direction with their backs turned and I was graciously awarded a Masquerade Violation for my efforts to stay hidden.  Since this was directly after a save I did the same action a few times and looked everywhere.  I could not find a single person within a more than reasonable distance that could have seen me.  The only one that COULD have was the stuck up ass standing in the little yard outside my shite apt. and he was a half block away and I was in a deep shadow. What exactly are the parameters being used?

--Just out of curiosity, what are, and what is the difference between a"Vanilla (Only on the neck and no foreplay?) Blood Doll and a CE (Chance Encounter?) Made-Blood Doll"?

--"Research books are no longer found but bought from vendors"  I like that you get (an) extra mission(s hopefully), but it is hardly worth it since from what I am seeing there is little enough money to aquire and the books are more expensive than the Email Collage was.  On top of that, taking out the books that were available throughout the game ultimately means by the end the character is going to be a lot less powerful.  Fun to some, but I am pretty sure that by the time I reach the Gallery mission that is not far off now, I am going to be totally fucked because I cannot buy up what I need to (monetarily and XP wise) to survive.

>>> "the character is less powerful". that was the idea. No free xp. It's about choices. 

--"Stealth has been modified to be more realistic/harder."  Ok, sure, but that combined with adding more NPC's walking around?  I get the impression that you simply wanted to make it harder for any PC without a daisy chain of Blood Dolls throughout the greater metropolitan area or Persuasion to get a prostitute to go into a dark alley with them.  This has more than just a possibly of forcing Frenzy upon them followed by a big fat heap of Masquerade Violation of course.
>>> that's the idea XD  

--What about all the "Magic Items" that used to be hidden around missions?  I just went through the Haunted Hotel and the "root of some such" that helped prevent Frenzy (I think) that was in a night stand toward the end of the mission was replaced with a fucking NORMAL watch, not even an expensive one.  Did you take all of them out, move them somewhere else, was my "Inspection" too low (at 3 currently I think) or am I going to have to purchase them with money also?  Either way I really liked those things and will be sad if they are gone.
>>> they were moved and hidden with inspection. 

Regardless, just getting the chance to play these clans alone is pretty rock regardless, so thanks for all your work.


Cheers,
Diablerist

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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PostSubject: Questions & Concerns   Wed May 22, 2013 2:54 pm

Claudia was kind enough to answer some of these more than adiquately, but to be thourough I am leaving my entire post plus some updates.

I think it could be relevant for a couple of my questions/statements, so I feel the need to tell you I have only played this game 1 1/2 times since its release (1/2 when it first came out and just finished Cam Edition with a Gangrel) so I do not have a profound amount of exposure or knowledge about it. I have been a loyal WoD fan since the original "Vampire the Masquerade" release (yes, all the lines and I do own every book, but always think first of Vampire when WoD or WW is brought up). That being said....

--Going into TFN I optimized my character to try to take advantage of the Email Collage. I find out that it no longer exists after playing for hours. I had found no mention of this in the notes that I read about the game. Now I have all this time invested into a Semedi character that is built wrong for the situation. It makes me sad.

--What was the significance of "Restored Scholarship title removing Academics title"? Just a name change or did its function change also? If only a name change, why did you even bother?

--"Starting money depends on Haggle feat"....uh, what starting money? The money Marcucio leaves in your desk drawer? If I am correct on this you tried to make everything in this more realistic and you do something like this? What are you "Haggling" over before you even meet him?

--Why do you only have male characters for some of the clans and females for others? I think the Sire of the PC Semedi was a great rendition that would have been pretty awesome even if it was a copy of an NPC.

--I have a pretty damn good understanding of Humanity and how it -should- work and I cannot comprehend why a PC with 3 Humanity or lower would loose a Humanity automatically because it "excites the beast"? Would it not make more sense that the PC would risk Frenzy rather automatically loose humanity? I have to question your understanding of the Humanity system at all on this one. Personally I think it weakens your argument over all about your intention on trying to make things more realistic, perceived, stated or otherwise. A vampire with that low of Humanity would give no thought to (putting it nicely) some poor bastard getting shot in the face while feeding on them by a crap shot local cop. Could you go a little further with your reasoning mechanically/system/balancing/anything.

--"Items only appear if Inspection feat is high enough." Appear? I don't think they even exist unless you have Inspection high enough. If something is sitting right out in the open you can't even accidentally find it? Your integrity on "realism" is slipping even further here in my opinion. After reading through this Forum I have confirmed my guess on why you did it this way, but would moving the objects to new places be that hard? I think this would have been a better option than this. Not being able to see them at all, let alone walking right over them (or at least where they should be) and not even getting the minute chance that your reticule could inadvertently pass over it and let you find it.

--What are the "new items" that are in the four Hubs and by "laid out" I assume you mean they do not exist either until your PC has the Inspection feat high enough.

--"All weapons have a use, no weapon is worthless." To what effect? Do they all "guest star" in a mission? Possibly integral in a specific fight? Used to solve a puzzle or something like that?

--What is the "Completely new violation system". I fed off a guy in Santa Monica from behind him as he walked by me, I was hiding in the tiny alley between the Tattoo Shop and the tunnel that goes nowhere with the only people around walking in the opposite direction with their backs turned and I was graciously awarded a Masquerade Violation for my efforts to stay hidden. Since this was directly after a save I did the same action a few times and looked everywhere. I could not find a single person within a more than reasonable distance that could have seen me. The only one that COULD have was the stuck up ass standing in the little yard outside my shite apt. and he was a half block away and I was in a deep shadow. What exactly are the parameters being used? I also keep getting criminal violations when no one else seems to be around also. Am I suffering a glitch or is the new system just that sensitive?

--Just out of curiosity, what are, and what is the difference between a"Vanilla (Only on the neck and no foreplay?) Blood Doll and a CE (Chance Encounter?) Made-Blood Doll"?

--"Research books are no longer found but bought from vendors" I like that you get (an) extra mission(s hopefully), but it is hardly worth it since from what I am seeing there is little enough money to acquire and the books are more expensive than the Email Collage was. On top of that, taking out the books that were available throughout the game ultimately means by the end the character is going to be a lot less powerful. Fun to some, but I am pretty sure that by the time I reach the Gallery mission that is not far off now, I am going to be totally fucked because I cannot buy up what I need to (monetarily and XP wise) to survive. (I actually was surprised. I beat it in two tries, and I thought it would be a lot harder not being able to see the shadow creature.)

--"Stealth has been modified to be more realistic/harder." Ok, sure, but that combined with adding more NPC's walking around? I get the impression that you simply wanted to make it harder for any PC without a daisy chain of Blood Dolls throughout the greater metropolitan area or Persuasion to get a prostitute to go into a dark alley with them. This has more than just a possibly of forcing Frenzy upon them followed by a big fat heap of Masquerade Violation of course. Update: I have noticed though that it seems far less likely for someone to walk up behind you through the allies. At least in Santa Monica.

--What about all the "Magic Items" that used to be hidden around missions? I just went through the Haunted Hotel and the "root of some such" that helped prevent Frenzy (I think) that was in a night stand toward the end of the mission was replaced with a NORMAL watch, not even an expensive one. Did you take all of them out, move them somewhere else, was my "Inspection" too low (at 3 currently I think) or am I going to have to purchase them with money also? Either way I really liked those things and will be sad if they are gone.

Regardless, just getting the chance to play these clans alone is pretty rock regardless, so thanks for all your work.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Wed May 22, 2013 6:52 pm

diablerist wrote:
Claudia was kind enough to answer some of these more than adiquately, but to be thourough I am leaving my entire post plus some updates.

I think it could be relevant for a couple of my questions/statements, so I feel the need to tell you I have only played this game 1 1/2 times since its release (1/2 when it first came out and just finished Cam Edition with a Gangrel) so I do not have a profound amount of exposure or knowledge about it. I have been a loyal WoD fan since the original "Vampire the Masquerade" release (yes, all the lines and I do own every book, but always think first of Vampire when WoD or WW is brought up). That being said....
Hi diablerist, welcome to the forum.
Just keep in mind that this barony isn't Sabbat territiory and we don't like too many black stains on auras...

For completeness of info, which version of CE did you play?

Quote :
--Going into TFN I optimized my character to try to take advantage of the Email Collage. I find out that it no longer exists after playing for hours. I had found no mention of this in the notes that I read about the game. Now I have all this time invested into a Semedi character that is built wrong for the situation. It makes me sad.
The college was my idea and went into CE after version 1.2, when I took over from Zer0. He actually never liked it too much and preferred keeping the books for TFN

Quote :
--What was the significance of "Restored Scholarship title removing Academics title"? Just a name change or did its function change also? If only a name change, why did you even bother?
Scholarship was renamed to the internal name academics in TFN 1.0. But it turned out that this caused technical problems. So Zer0 had to change the name back.

Quote :
--"Starting money depends on Haggle feat"....uh, what starting money? The money Marcucio leaves in your desk drawer? If I am correct on this you tried to make everything in this more realistic and you do something like this? What are you "Haggling" over before you even meet him?
Well, I agree with you that haggling has been turned from completely useless in the unmodded ("vanilla") game ito the one and only important feat in TFN. The way I see the starting money is, it's a bit of cash given to the character by the cam to buy the necessary starting equipment to get the task done. So no haggling involved. But if Zer0 sees it another way, well it is his mod after all...

Quote :
--Why do you only have male characters for some of the clans and females for others? I think the Sire of the PC Semedi was a great rendition that would have been pretty awesome even if it was a copy of an NPC.
Creating all the new skins, and in some cases also changing the models as well takes a lot of time. Time that Zer0 just didn't have. But if you really want to play one of the non existant genders and don't mind playing with vanilla skins, it's quite easy to reactivate the mising genders in clandoc000.txt. If you're intersted in that and need help, send me a PM.

Quote :
--I have a pretty damn good understanding of Humanity and how it -should- work and I cannot comprehend why a PC with 3 Humanity or lower would loose a Humanity automatically because it "excites the beast"? Would it not make more sense that the PC would risk Frenzy rather automatically loose humanity? I have to question your understanding of the Humanity system at all on this one. Personally I think it weakens your argument over all about your intention on trying to make things more realistic, perceived, stated or otherwise. A vampire with that low of Humanity would give no thought to (putting it nicely) some poor bastard getting shot in the face while feeding on them by a crap shot local cop. Could you go a little further with your reasoning mechanically/system/balancing/anything.
no comment on this one

Quote :
--"Items only appear if Inspection feat is high enough." Appear? I don't think they even exist unless you have Inspection high enough. If something is sitting right out in the open you can't even accidentally find it? Your integrity on "realism" is slipping even further here in my opinion. After reading through this Forum I have confirmed my guess on why you did it this way, but would moving the objects to new places be that hard? I think this would have been a better option than this. Not being able to see them at all, let alone walking right over them (or at least where they should be) and not even getting the minute chance that your reticule could inadvertently pass over it and let you find it.

--What are the "new items" that are in the four Hubs and by "laid out" I assume you mean they do not exist either until your PC has the Inspection feat high enough.
Items to be found if your inspection is high enough is part of both mods, CE and TFN. The idea is mostly to make inspection more worthwhile, but the acual implementation of this is handled differently in both mods.

Quote :
--"All weapons have a use, no weapon is worthless." To what effect? Do they all "guest star" in a mission? Possibly integral in a specific fight? Used to solve a puzzle or something like that?

--What is the "Completely new violation system". I fed off a guy in Santa Monica from behind him as he walked by me, I was hiding in the tiny alley between the Tattoo Shop and the tunnel that goes nowhere with the only people around walking in the opposite direction with their backs turned and I was graciously awarded a Masquerade Violation for my efforts to stay hidden. Since this was directly after a save I did the same action a few times and looked everywhere. I could not find a single person within a more than reasonable distance that could have seen me. The only one that COULD have was the stuck up ass standing in the little yard outside my shite apt. and he was a half block away and I was in a deep shadow. What exactly are the parameters being used? I also keep getting criminal violations when no one else seems to be around also. Am I suffering a glitch or is the new system just that sensitive?
Getting criminal violations if you're running around with weapons drawn is a feature from TFN. But getting masquerade violations for feeding even if there seems nobody to be around is something I also have encountered with other mods. Maybe it's a bit more sensitive in TFN, I don't know.

Quote :
--Just out of curiosity, what are, and what is the difference between a"Vanilla (Only on the neck and no foreplay?) Blood Doll and a CE (Chance Encounter?) Made-Blood Doll"?
As for the terms, "vanilla" is commonly used for the unmodded game. CE means Camarilla Edition. In this context it means blooddolls created for CE 1.2. These types of dolls are handled a bit differently in TFN. In later versions of CE I have disabled most of these new blooddolls again, or changed them to a behaviour as used for the other dolls.

Quote :
--"Research books are no longer found but bought from vendors" I like that you get (an) extra mission(s hopefully), but it is hardly worth it since from what I am seeing there is little enough money to acquire and the books are more expensive than the Email Collage was. On top of that, taking out the books that were available throughout the game ultimately means by the end the character is going to be a lot less powerful. Fun to some, but I am pretty sure that by the time I reach the Gallery mission that is not far off now, I am going to be totally fucked because I cannot buy up what I need to (monetarily and XP wise) to survive. (I actually was surprised. I beat it in two tries, and I thought it would be a lot harder not being able to see the shadow creature.)

--"Stealth has been modified to be more realistic/harder." Ok, sure, but that combined with adding more NPC's walking around? I get the impression that you simply wanted to make it harder for any PC without a daisy chain of Blood Dolls throughout the greater metropolitan area or Persuasion to get a prostitute to go into a dark alley with them. This has more than just a possibly of forcing Frenzy upon them followed by a big fat heap of Masquerade Violation of course. Update: I have noticed though that it seems far less likely for someone to walk up behind you through the allies. At least in Santa Monica.

--What about all the "Magic Items" that used to be hidden around missions? I just went through the Haunted Hotel and the "root of some such" that helped prevent Frenzy (I think) that was in a night stand toward the end of the mission was replaced with a NORMAL watch, not even an expensive one. Did you take all of them out, move them somewhere else, was my "Inspection" too low (at 3 currently I think) or am I going to have to purchase them with money also? Either way I really liked those things and will be sad if they are gone.

Regardless, just getting the chance to play these clans alone is pretty rock regardless, so thanks for all your work.
Hope I could answer a few of your questions. The rest is up to Zer0.

- geek

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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Thu May 23, 2013 1:42 am

Cam Edition is 1.6 and since you asked, is there something I missed about getting armor in that game? I played a Gangrel and never had access to armor throughout the entire game.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Thu May 23, 2013 2:26 am

diablerist wrote:

--I have a pretty damn good understanding of Humanity and how it -should- work and I cannot comprehend why a PC with 3 Humanity or lower would loose a Humanity automatically because it "excites the beast"? Would it not make more sense that the PC would risk Frenzy rather automatically loose humanity? I have to question your understanding of the Humanity system at all on this one. Personally I think it weakens your argument over all about your intention on trying to make things more realistic, perceived, stated or otherwise. A vampire with that low of Humanity would give no thought to (putting it nicely) some poor bastard getting shot in the face while feeding on them by a crap shot local cop. Could you go a little further with your reasoning mechanically/system/balancing/anything.

Losing humanity whenever an innocent dies, regardless of who does the killing was a result of technical limitations. The only way Humanity could drop lower than 3 was to make a script that checks for innocents getting killed, but it wasn't possible to filter the deaths by who does the killing. So it was either this or keeping the vanilla system where 3 is the minimum Humanity possible.

Yes, this conflicts with p&p VtM. Yes, this is not how Humanity is supposed towork. But it was deemed to provide a better gameplay experience and that's why Zer0 put it in.

Quote :
--"All weapons have a use, no weapon is worthless." To what effect? Do they all "guest star" in a mission? Possibly integral in a specific fight? Used to solve a puzzle or something like that?

No, it just means that all weapons are designed to have strengths and weaknesses that balance eachother out so that no weapon is clearly better than any other weapon. For example a knife has lower damage than a katana, but it's faster and gives you a bonus to Defense. On the other hand a Sledgehammer is brutally powerful, but it does bashing damage, is very slow, and gives you a penalty to Defense.

Quote :
--What about all the "Magic Items" that used to be hidden around missions? I just went through the Haunted Hotel and the "root of some such" that helped prevent Frenzy (I think) that was in a night stand toward the end of the mission was replaced with a NORMAL watch, not even an expensive one. Did you take all of them out, move them somewhere else, was my "Inspection" too low (at 3 currently I think) or am I going to have to purchase them with money also? Either way I really liked those things and will be sad if they are gone.

They're not gone. Not sure if it applies to all, but some at least can now be bought from Mr. Ox in Chinatown.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Thu May 23, 2013 12:58 pm

diablerist wrote:
Cam Edition is 1.6 and since you asked, is there something I missed about getting armor in that game? I played a Gangrel and never had access to armor throughout the entire game.
If you mean, you couldn't get any better clothes at all, I don't know what happened. If you are referring to the body armor, you can only get that one from Heather, and only if you didn't tell her to stay at home to save her from being abducted and killed by the Sabbat. Plus you have to visit your haven directly after your return from the society, before you go to the prince.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Thu May 23, 2013 2:43 pm

Quote :
If you mean, you couldn't get any better clothes at all, I don't know what happened. If you are referring to the body armor, you can only get that one from Heather, and only if you didn't tell her to stay at home to save her from being abducted and killed by the Sabbat. Plus you have to visit your haven directly after your return from the society, before you go to the prince.

Are you not supposed to be able to buy armor/clothes from the vendors in every Hub except Santa Monica?


Last edited by Childe of Malkav on Fri May 24, 2013 8:16 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : corrected the quote marks)
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Thu May 23, 2013 4:59 pm

Yes, you are supposed to be able to buy armors from the same vendors you bought them from in vanilla. If that doesn't work in your game, something is wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Fri May 24, 2013 6:34 am

I had put this and my remarks in the review section Smile since im on my phone and in the middle of studying can someone go and quote that shit here as well ? ^^

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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Fri May 24, 2013 8:26 am

Claudia wrote:
I had put this and my remarks in the review section Smile since im on my phone and in the middle of studying can someone go and quote that shit here as well ? ^^
I merged it in here. It's now top of this topic.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Fri May 24, 2013 9:11 am

Das German qualitit !

Thanks Malkav ^^

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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Fri May 24, 2013 11:25 am

Claudia wrote:
Das German qualitit ! Die Deutche Qualität!

Thanks Malkav ^^

Fixed.

We can blame it on posting from the phone.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Fri May 24, 2013 11:44 am

>_>
Thanks Very Happy

(why did i write german ? Oo)
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Fri May 24, 2013 2:33 pm

Dragatus wrote:
Claudia wrote:
Das German qualitit ! Die Deutche Qualität!

Thanks Malkav ^^

Fixed.

We can blame it on posting from the phone.
Ich habe nicht geweisst Sie kennen Deutsch sprachen?
Ja, Ich habe nicht ganz die Vatersprache vergessen. Ich finde. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Fri May 24, 2013 2:40 pm

gewust*

kőnnen*

sprechen*
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Fri May 24, 2013 2:48 pm

Dragatus wrote:
gewust*

kőnnen*

sprechen*

Alzheimer war also Deutsch... Crying or Very sad
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Dragatus
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Fri May 24, 2013 5:55 pm

auch*
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Fri May 24, 2013 6:05 pm

Did you hear that sound? That was Goethe turning in the grave...

- geek

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Tuesday is Soylent Green day.
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Dragatus
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Fri May 24, 2013 6:12 pm

Excellent. We can attach magnets to his body and generate electricity.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Fri May 24, 2013 6:49 pm

Dragatus wrote:
Excellent. We can attach magnets to his body and generate electricity.
Finally! A way to get clean energy. No more nuclear power plants, no more buying oil from the sheiks, no more buying gas from Putin... cheers

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Karavolos
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Sat May 25, 2013 1:36 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Dragatus wrote:
Excellent. We can attach magnets to his body and generate electricity.
Finally! A way to get clean energy. No more nuclear power plants, no more buying oil from the sheiks, no more buying gas from Putin... cheers

- geek
http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2429#comic

I spent nearly an hour tracking this one down in the archives, read it.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Sat May 25, 2013 4:31 am

Good one!

And we all thought the Bush wars were incited by their OIL-buddies... scratch

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Feral
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Sat May 25, 2013 1:16 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Good one!

And we all thought the Bush wars were incited by their OIL-buddies... scratch

- geek

Great one, Draggy!
lol!

So, letting unfair laws to be passed is in fact eco-friendly... I may be a Gangrel, but something is not raight with it, even for me... scratch

And, thanks for pointing out I need to work on the language of my ancestors a bit... It seems my sclerosis developed to unfavorable proportions... Besides, where are my shades...?
*starts searching*
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Dragatus
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Sat May 25, 2013 3:07 pm

Feral wrote:

Great one, Draggy!

As much as I like getting credit without having to do anything, I still need to point out that it was Karavolos who linked the comic.
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Karavolos
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PostSubject: Re: Questions & Concerns   Sat May 25, 2013 3:09 pm

cheers
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