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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Protean   Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:22 pm

Just in case you're interested. Today i have tested some things about protean. As I've already said more than once, I absolutely hate claws and that bunny hop of the clawed form.
So I created claws as a selectable weapon and starting equipment in addition to the normal unarmed fist for Gangrel and Nossies. Then I changed Protean 2 so that instead of giving you claws gives a bonus of +3 to unarmed and +1 to armed melee.
Seems to work quite well, at least for protean 2, 3, and 4. But with that, the warform also is able to use any weapon. To avoid this I've built in the usual changes for protean and frenzy claws use. But now the warform equips the claws, but moves in the normal way, not in that bunny hop you usually get with claws...
Dunno why scratch

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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:15 pm

That actually all sounds good to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:37 pm

I actually like the bunny hops, gave an animalistic aspect to it.

But, let me get this clear:

Protean 1 gives the player the option to select the protean claws in his inventory at any time, no need to activate it? And protean 2, 3 and 4 only give a buff to unarmed melee damage?
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:42 pm

If I get it right, yes.

Good changes as for me, especially if the claws could stay , or be made selectable, with Protean 2-4.

And, Philosopher... I have a little request for you. If you change this terrible avatar picture for something more... possible to look at, I will grant you one (reasonable) wish.
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:10 am

For now I have put the claws in the inventory of Gangrel and Nossies as a normal selectable "weapon", independent of protean use. Protean 1 still gives the red eyes, that's all.

About the bunny hop, it stays there when you use the claws, but when you activate Protean 5 (warform), the wolf model walks and runs normally. No idea what causes this behaviour.
Depending on my success or no success in discipline changes, maybe I can even create a more p&p like targeted Protean discipline. Mistform could be very useful in some situations, if there is a way of implementing it. But on the other hand, I can't see any real use for Earthmeld in bloodlines. Most of the game takes place in streets or buildings, so there is no soil you can meld with. And you can't move earthmelded, so it cannot be used as kind of ersatzObfuscate.
Spontaneously I can only see two possible uses: If you can't get out of the warehouse in time, you can meld between the railroad tracks and wait out the boom. And you can use it to wait for the next tram in Griffith park without having to run away from wolfie for the whole 4 minutes. though you probably have to be very fast when you unmeld and run to the tram...

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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:50 am

More PnPish Discipline is still interesting...
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:09 pm

Will the claws still cause Masquerade violations, or just cause the police to chase after you?
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:35 pm

Karavolos wrote:
Will the claws still cause Masquerade violations, or just cause the police to chase after you?
For now I can't say. I've only tested if it is possible to do this without crashing the game. Never left the tutorial map with the test character. So if I really implement it, the claws must be criminal and supernatural level 4 or so... scratch

Until now I have only ever played one Gangrel, and that one specialized on Animalism. Never put any experience in Protean. So I didn't even consider that Protean 2+ is overt discipline, causing masquerade violations.

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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:15 pm

Protean 1 is overt too. How many people with glowing red eyes have you seen this week? Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:17 pm

Feral wrote:
Protean 1 is overt too. How many people with glowing red eyes have you seen this week? Laughing
None actually, but quite a lot with very dark sunglasses Cool Maybe... scratch

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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:20 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Feral wrote:
Protean 1 is overt too. How many people with glowing red eyes have you seen this week? Laughing
None actually, but quite a lot with very dark sunglasses Cool Maybe... scratch

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In the weather we have... Suspicious. Beckett might have went on an Embracing spree or something. lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:16 am

Feral wrote:

And, Philosopher... I have a little request for you. If you change this terrible avatar picture for something more... possible to look at, I will grant you one (reasonable) wish.

That can be done, yes. As soon as I find an image I enjoy enough to replace my current avatar. But that can take some time.
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:44 pm

If it's at all possible, could the Warform somehow be melded into the "Armors" section of the inventory? So that it can be accessed when Protean is up to 5? Or...it doesnt work that way, does it?
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:15 pm

SaulottheGentle wrote:
If it's at all possible, could the Warform somehow be melded into the "Armors" section of the inventory? So that it can be accessed when Protean is up to 5? Or...it doesnt work that way, does it?
That might be possible. But it would probably trigger the same error that caused Wesp to disallow dropping or selling armor: When you wear a set of armor, and then drop/sell it, the character is forced to the armor0 model, but the stats for armor rating are not reset. So if you put on a set of heavy leather, drop it, pick it up, and don it again, you have armor rating 6.
So even if it's possible to turn an unused item into a set of warform"armor", you get in trouble when Protean expires.
Could be more interesting for Vicissitude: Make two sets, normal looking and warform. Then the apropriate dicipline level is used as a trigger: gives the item you don't have, forces you to use it, and removes the other one.

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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:43 pm

Why claws for Nossies?
Would not use Earthmeld - you came with 2 uses, how many in the whole game? There are other powers to choose from: 'Flesh of Marble' for extra soaking, 'Dual Form' would be fun Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:46 am

Jad.3 wrote:
Why claws for Nossies?
For now mostly for testing. And because it fits for the model in the game.
Quote :
Would not use Earthmeld - you came with 2 uses, how many in the whole game? There are other powers to choose from: 'Flesh of Marble' for extra soaking, 'Dual Form' would be fun Smile
Uses for earthmeld, the two uses I mentioned are about it. Where else is easily accessible soil? Hollywood cemetery, a few small spots in Santa Monica, maybe outside the Society of Leopold if it's not too rocky.
I don't know much about other powers. And apart from modding bloodlines it would be completely useless knowledge for me.
Call me a dinosaur, but I absolutely hate seaching the web for things. From my limited experience, you get 1000 hits. 998 are advertizing, 1 is nothing about what you are searching, and 1 might be useful if you find it in the junk pile of useless shit.

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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:54 am

That's where we come in Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:34 am

Flesh of Marble is Protean 6 and kind of duplicates Fortitude, which Gangrel already have. I'm sceptical how well Dual Form would work in Bloodlines and that's without even considering that it's Protean 9.
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:38 pm

Nobody likes doctor downer! C'mon, come up with something Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:20 pm

To be completely fair, the highest level of any chosen disciplines in CE/TFN would have to be Dominate 7 (Still the Mortal Flesh AND Tyrant's Gaze) and Serpentis 8 (Apep's Semblence). To further elaborate, the Vanilla game already screws the PnP rules. Like the Vanilla Dominate 3 "Suicide".
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:32 pm

Sally's outwitting you, Draggy What a Face
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:43 pm

But is he real? Or just some mirage made by an insidious illusionist?
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:26 pm

SaulottheGentle wrote:
To be completely fair, the highest level of any chosen disciplines in CE/TFN would have to be Dominate 7 (Still the Mortal Flesh AND Tyrant's Gaze) and Serpentis 8 (Apep's Semblence). To further elaborate, the Vanilla game already screws the PnP rules. Like the Vanilla Dominate 3 "Suicide".

That is all true, but to be completely fair (see what I did there? Razz) Malkav isn't responsible for any of the CE/TFN discipline changes and he specifically said: "Depending on my success or no success in discipline changes, maybe I can even create a more p&p like targeted Protean discipline."

So my impression was he prefered to follow the p&p rules, not break them. And even if we ignore that, my gameplay specific reservations still stand.

Karavolos wrote:
Sally's outwitting you, Draggy What a Face

How about we hold back judgement until the end of the discussion? Wink

Jad.3 wrote:
Nobody likes doctor downer! C'mon, come up with something Wink

scratch

Remind me, what exactly does Protean 3 do at the moment in the game?
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:56 pm

Dragatus wrote:


That is all true, but to be completely fair (see what I did there? Razz) Malkav isn't responsible for any of the CE/TFN discipline changes and he specifically said: "Depending on my success or no success in discipline changes, maybe I can even create a more p&p like targeted Protean discipline."

So my impression was he prefered to follow the p&p rules, not break them. And even if we ignore that, my gameplay specific reservations still stand.

scratch

Remind me, what exactly does Protean 3 do at the moment in the game?

To put it in a short version. Caine lowers the generation of the PC and makes it so the PC can break the rules of disciplines, or creates powers to disciplines that weren't there before, like Dominate 3 "Suicide". Caine is the Taxi Driver and he can pop up there despite canon because he is "The Powers That Be" for vampires. And by the reasoning of Caine willing the powers to be so, the PC getting supernaturally powerful, even learning 9th or 10th level of disciplines can be plausible because a wizard did it and Caine is that wizard.

And for Protean 3, it's Earthmeld.
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PostSubject: Re: Protean   Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:09 am

1. We all know Protean 3 in the p&p version is Earthmeld. I was asking what Protean 3 does in Bloodlines the computer game becasue it's been so long since I've played a Gangrel.

2. The taxi driver being Caine is a popular hypothesis, but it isn't necessarily true. He is certainly a low generation vampire, but it doesn't fit Caine's personality to get so involved in local kindred affairs. He's been busy not giving a fuck for thosuands of years (including the fun with Carthage, the purging of the Salubri by the Tremere, and the anarch revolt when several antedelluvians were thought to be dusted) and then he suddenly changes his mind in order to rid a single city of a little shit that barely qualifies as an elder?

3. You haven't actually adressed either my arguments which are:
a) From what Malkav said I understand that he would like to make Protean more like in the p&p version.
b) Flesh of Marble wouldn't produce interesting gameplay (Gangrel already have Fortitude) and Dual Form would be wierd. Though that lat one may be just me. I hate uncontrolable companions and prefers to go solo.
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