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 Creative uses for Disciplines?

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SaulottheGentle
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PostSubject: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:35 am

In hopes of making the forum as alive as undeath can be, I've decided to make a thread for all of our ideas for discipline usage. Not new levels to disciplines, but creative ideas for existing ones. Even Blood Magic is allowed for creativity. If you gotten the idea or the creative use itself from a different place, please give credit where it is due.

To begin, my ideas are for the discipline of Obeah. Most of my ideas came from looking up on Tvtropes underneath the trope of "Harmful Healing". (lololololo)

Corpre Ensano:There's an idea of healing something with Obeah the wrong way. Think of Vietnam War Veterans. In prisons their legs were broken, but no medical assistance was provided, so when their bones were healing themselves, they healed the wrong way. All stiff and no way to bend it. For it the heal correctly, the leg would have to be broken the exact same way before it can be healed correctly. This could be useful for modern Salubri, as who would believe the Tremere without them exposing their crimes?

Pain killing from pleasure:Then there's the thought of the feeling the "getting healed" from Corpre Sano and Renewed Vigor, perhaps even Mens Sana, feeling pleasurable. Of the painkiller high, you perverts~
Of course, another thing about Painkillers is that they're highly addictive for those purposes. Just something to think about.

Obeah 4 - Mens Insana:Mens Sana, the Obeah 4 derangement cure. Sure, it stops derangements, so it's good, right? Then think about how the derangement may be the only thing keeping a person from doing majorly bad things. Supposedly a regressive who wants to take care of everything as a true egotist could fall into bouts of fear if they're pleasing to everyone. Or depression keeping someone so subdued in action and cynicism. When cured with Obeah 4? You may cure the inactivity, but not the pain from the memories, possibly causing the depressed to commit suicide.

No Doctorate:There's also the idea of a Salubri with NO dots in Medicine. If s/he had dots in Obeah, it would be the same as a doctor with no idea of what he's doing. Like healing a broken right leg while using the left foot as a reference, completely messing up the person's center of balance with two left legs.

Tzimisce, we learned it by watching you! :And then there's the idea of Cancer. A cell of the body trying to heal something, and ending up damaged itself. Now think if a Salubri could heal a wound...wrong. Not normal wrong, just wrong. Ending up causing not just cancer, but a supernatural Obeah infused Cancer. One that only Obeah could possibly heal. Think of how nightmarish that is...

Unleash the Forgotten Pain:Finally, there's the thought of a bullet wound or a weapon attack with the weapon breaking off into the body of the person. Obeah can heal it, but if they didn't remove the offending item, this can be quite the body wracker indeed.

Please share your own ideas on creative uses for disciplines, this is open to all.


Last edited by SaulottheGentle on Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:39 pm

And then you guys complain on how everyone hunts your asses. Look at all this evil shit
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SaulottheGentle
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:45 pm

ThePhilosopher wrote:
And then you guys complain on how everyone hunts your asses. Look at all this evil shit
Coming from a Tzimizce, I'll take it as a compliment.
But please, let's save any "Guilty or Not Guilty" arguments for later, for now, ideas :3
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:53 pm

My thoughts is that fancy disciplines (speshul) are complicated to tweak because unlike others, they aren't a "general neutral concept". Obeah is "to heal", because the authors wanted to create "nice" vampires for a "nice" concept (Golconda). Like the whole clan is nice. Bleh.

I think all of what you wrote basically goes against the concept of Obeah (supernatural healing), but then I think the mere idea of playing a Salubri is an abomination XD

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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:14 pm

Claudia wrote:
...I think all of what you wrote basically goes against the concept of Obeah (supernatural healing), but then I think the mere idea of playing a Salubri is an abomination XD
...says the person who diablerized Saulot to become a vampire.scratch 

But back to the topic. What do I use if I want to drive someone completely nuts? Dominate? Dementation? No, simple Obfuscate 3 is enough. Just let him glimpse his recently died granny, or something similar impossible, behind every corner...Twisted Evil 

-geek 

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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:47 pm

I think only the first example Sally posted would really work, but I approve of the thread in general.


My idea is to use Obfuscate 3 to make yourself look like yourself and hide the fact you've just grown your Protean claws. Then you walk up to someone, have a nice little chat, and wait for them drop their guard ... Twisted Evil

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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:15 pm

Simply go to somebody, chat about whatever, say goodby, turn back, shift into a wolf (or whatever for the Gangrel) and canter away.

Mindfuck guaranteed.

Having Retinue shrink as a combo could add steady flow of cash into the equation.
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SaulottheGentle
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:41 am

A couple more ideas for Obeah. Somewhat came to me after reading the Imperius Curse's description. The second is a thought I got from Umineko.

Inappropriate Anesthetic Touch:When in battle, use Anesthetic Touch on an enemy, proceed to cut/shoot them up, then when it ends, their blocked pain suddenly hits. Hard.

Or better yet, use one of the "Harmful Healing" maneuvers listed above first, then use Anesthetic Touch to "delay" the feeling of it passing on, at least enough time to make a getaway. That way, the offending being would have hard to heal, or damn near unhealable damage and the only person who could've done something escaped.

Crushing Neurtal Guard:Then there's Neutral Guard/Shepard's Watch, which creates a ten foot barrier which is impregnable to people trying to pass it (though projectiles can move through it). Because you have to have more willpower successes to pass it, the Salubri can also move with the barrier in effect. Which can do some nasty things. Like lets say...forcing a Tremere into his own Iron Maiden. Or escaping from a Baali by drowning him in his own pit, dessicated and eaten by his own insects.

Or best yet, killing off a would be killer by erecting the barrier, cornering him, then simply advancing until he's nothing but a crushed heap in the corner. The most deliciously evil part of this is that it technically isn't an attack. No amount of Strength or Stamina can save you. The Salubri is simply "defending" himself, the only rolls to even resist such a thing is for willpower, and the requirement is 3 higher successes than the Salubri's own! And if the Salubri has 3 successes more than the would-be intruder, the intruder gets paralyzed for five turns. More than enough time to crush them, escape is impossible and death is next to inevitable.

Chaosmaker:A third comes in the form of Peacemaker, another ability of Obeah 3. The Salubri can secretly use this power to silently allow negociations to  go through, while using Auspex 2/4 to poke at everyone's auras/thoughts to see the tensions between the certain people. And when the undesirable person (which is most likely a Tremere) is going to begin to speak, the Salubri then simply drops it, allowing everyone's repressed tensions to surface and to take it out on the speaker. Or better to use it until after they're done speaking, better to suspect some witchcraft was behind it.

The Eye sees All:A final use for Obeah I can list is in Sense Vitality. Pretty much the best feeding and use tool, especially if the Salubri is a doctor. They can learn of and gain entirely clean blood, make excellent money while holding domain of a place and possible haven (so long as their clan isn't revealed). Or if the desire for more discreetness is wanted, being a street side palm-reader/fortune teller is a nice way to go along.

And I'm afraid that's all the uses I can come up with for Obeah. I have some ideas in Obteneration and Vicissitude, but I'll hold to let others go first.


Last edited by SaulottheGentle on Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:28 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:24 am

SaulottheGentle wrote:

And I'm afraid that's all the uses I can come up with for Obeah. I have some ideas in Obteneration and Vicissitude, but I'll hold to let others go first.
Regarding Vicissitude, don't wait for me. My creativity is in an all-time low.
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:44 am

SaulottheGentle wrote:
Or better yet, use one of the "Harmful Healing" maneuvers listed above first, then use Anesthetic Touch to "delay" the feeling of it passing on, at least enough time to make a getaway. That way, the offending being would have hard to heal, or damn near unhealable damage and the only person who could've done something escaped.
What do you mean only person who could've done anything?

All a vampires needs to get themself fixed is the presence of someone with decent Medicine. Then just take a knife, remove flesh to expose the bone, let the Medicine person tell you where it needs to be broken again, then break it there, set the bones properly and spend blood to heal.

Or even simpler, amputate the limb then spend 1 Willpower and 5 blood to regrow it.

Granted, the Salubri will get away in the meantime and came out on top in the exchange, but the harmful healing damage is perfectly fixable.
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SaulottheGentle
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:42 am

Dragatus wrote:
SaulottheGentle wrote:
Or better yet, use one of the "Harmful Healing" maneuvers listed above first, then use Anesthetic Touch to "delay" the feeling of it passing on, at least enough time to make a getaway. That way, the offending being would have hard to heal, or damn near unhealable damage and the only person who could've done something escaped.
Granted, the Salubri will get away in the meantime and came out on top in the exchange, but the harmful healing damage is perfectly fixable.
But incredibly painful to fix. Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:15 pm

SaulottheGentle wrote:
Dragatus wrote:

Granted, the Salubri will get away in the meantime and came out on top in the exchange, but the harmful healing damage is perfectly fixable.
But incredibly painful to fix. Twisted Evil
Are you sure you are the good Cainite here? Suspect 
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:29 pm

Feral wrote:
SaulottheGentle wrote:
Dragatus wrote:

Granted, the Salubri will get away in the meantime and came out on top in the exchange, but the harmful healing damage is perfectly fixable.
But incredibly painful to fix. Twisted Evil
Are you sure you are the good Cainite here? Suspect 
You know our Saly. For some inexplicable reason he has a grudge against wand-wielders.Razz 

Another idea I just had is for obfuscate. Quite useful in public shower rooms. Not only for the obvious reason (peep). Cool  You can also slip in a bar of soap if there is someone who needs a nasty accident...

-geek 

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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:23 pm

Feral wrote:
SaulottheGentle wrote:
Dragatus wrote:

Granted, the Salubri will get away in the meantime and came out on top in the exchange, but the harmful healing damage is perfectly fixable.
But incredibly painful to fix. Twisted Evil
Are you sure you are the good Cainite here? Suspect 
You think I'm a good Cainite? Me, blood bonded to a Tzimizce with war ghouls of which I know are some unfortunate souls glued together with magical plastic surgery and tasked with certain missions of which me or Kara are not allowed to speak of and friends with a Ravnos who taught me everything I know about stealing things? No treats for you! Evil or Very Mad 

I don't want to get into fields of black and white morality, as feeding is somewhat akin to rape (IIRC, most likely I'm wrong) and blood is more like an addiction and we're all undead abominations. But to explain how my clan sees it, that doesn't mean that you can't be decent about it. Cultivating healthy relationships with mortals so they're more willing to give blood (easier of said mortal is a blood doll), or receiving blood for services rendered.

And without delving into conceptualization, the ideas are only solutions for a cornered Salubri. Any chance to escape, to unlive, and most importantly to survive their attackers.
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:37 pm

SaulottheGentle wrote:
and friends with a Ravnos who taught me everything I know about stealing things?
Was my pleasure, Sallyboi What a Face

SaulottheGentle wrote:
I don't want to get into fields of black and white morality
Pro tip: Grey.
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:02 pm

Karavolos wrote:
SaulottheGentle wrote:
I don't want to get into fields of black and white morality
Pro tip: Grey.
I wanted to say that, but then I would have said "Shades of Grey", and then promptly face palmed at the insinuations of the book of the same name. *shudder*
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:29 pm

SaulottheGentle wrote:
Karavolos wrote:
SaulottheGentle wrote:
I don't want to get into fields of black and white morality
Pro tip: Grey.
I wanted to say that, but then I would have said "Shades of Grey", and then promptly face palmed at the insinuations of the book of the same name. *shudder*
Suffice to say both you and Kara are on Path of Typhon...
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:38 pm

Feral wrote:
SaulottheGentle wrote:
Karavolos wrote:
SaulottheGentle wrote:
I don't want to get into fields of black and white morality
Pro tip: Grey.
I wanted to say that, but then I would have said "Shades of Grey", and then promptly face palmed at the insinuations of the book of the same name. *shudder*
Suffice to say both you and Kara are on  Path of Typhon...
What makes you say that? A dead god is still dead.
And if you want paths, it's called "The Path of Getting Shit Done". :3
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:09 pm

SaulottheGentle wrote:
Feral wrote:
SaulottheGentle wrote:
Karavolos wrote:
SaulottheGentle wrote:
I don't want to get into fields of black and white morality
Pro tip: Grey.
I wanted to say that, but then I would have said "Shades of Grey", and then promptly face palmed at the insinuations of the book of the same name. *shudder*
Suffice to say both you and Kara are on  Path of Typhon...
What makes you say that? A dead god is still dead.
And if you want paths, it's called "The Path of Getting Shit Done". :3
Shades of grey are very snake-ish...
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:52 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
You know our Saly. For some inexplicable reason he has a grudge against wand-wielders.Razz 
Oh come on. I use a proper staff, not some silly little wand.


SaulottheGentle wrote:
Then there's Neutral Guard/Shepard's Watch, which creates a ten foot barrier which is impregnable to people trying to pass it (though projectiles can move through it). Because you have to have more willpower successes to pass it, the Salubri can also move with the barrier in effect. Which can do some nasty things. Like lets say...forcing a Tremere into his own Iron Maiden. Or escaping from a Baali by drowning him in his own pit, dessicated and eaten by his own insects.

Or best yet, killing off a would be killer by erecting the barrier, cornering him, then simply advancing until he's nothing but a crushed heap in the corner. The most deliciously evil part of this is that it technically isn't an attack. The Salubri is simply "defending" himself. The only rolls to even resist such a thing is for willpower, and the requirement is 3 higher successes than the Salubri's own! Escape is impossible and death is next to inevitable.
This wouldn't work. I just read the entry on Shepard's Watch in V20 and the barrier is psychological, not physical. You could use it to push someone against a wall, but not to crush them.

And people outside can break through if they win an extended, resisted Willpower roll. Difficulty for the Salubri is the opponet's current Willpower and the difficulty for the opponent is the Salubri's current Willpower. And the Salubri had to spend 2 points of Willpower to activate the ability. Razz


Alright, not to be just a party pooper, I'll try to contribute a little.

Obtenebration 3 - Arms of the Abyss

Makes 6 foot tentacles extend from the shadows. You know where you can always find a bit of shadow? Inside your opponent's mouth. And if the mouth isn't big enough for all the shadows you conjure up ... Twisted Evil 


Thaumaturgy - Movement of the Mind path

This path allows you to lift things with your mind. At 5 dots you can lift up to 500 kg. But if you can push things up, you can also push things down, right? With enough force to lift a 500 kg object. Twisted Evil 


Thaumaturgy - The Path of Conjuring

Allows yo uto create objects up to your own size. With 3 dots you can craty any non-living item as long as you have the proper knowledge. Whatever you need, you got it. Twisted Evil 


Vicissitude 3 - Bonecraft

Can be used to give handicaped mortals new limbs. tongue
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:00 pm

Feral wrote:

Shades of grey are very snake-ish...
Feral, if there's one universal painting lesson I learned in art class, it's to never cover up a dark color with a lighter color. The black paint underneath is too dark to be hidden by white paint. Even if enough coats were applied to fully cover it, it's still obviously noticeable as the thickness of the white paint is MUCH greater and clumsily formed than the black underneath. (Black = Nature, White = Demeanor)

To restate, thread is for creativity. There's more than likely any number of Salubri that's fully aware of what they CAN do, like what I listed above, but because the clan tends to embrace those who were necessarily good people they would never do those things. Even the incorrectly healed bones and sanity are temporary. At best, the "Car Compactor Technique" (Neutral Guard + Corner = Inescapable Death) would be used as a last resort on someone, at least leaving them incapacitated, or if an ally of theirs was near, in Torpor.

But the Salubri Antitribu on the other hand...

Dragatus wrote:
This wouldn't work. I just read the entry on Shepard's Watch in V20 and the barrier is psychological, not physical. You could use it to push someone against a wall, but not to crush them.

And people outside can break through if they win an extended, resisted Willpower roll. Difficulty for the Salubri is the opponet's current Willpower and the difficulty for the opponent is the Salubri's current Willpower. And the Salubri had to spend 2 points of Willpower to activate the ability. Razz
Well then...
We'll just have to test it out then, won't we? What a Face
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:24 pm

SaulottheGentle wrote:

We'll just have to test it out then, won't we? What a Face
*cracks knuckles* Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:41 pm

Thanks Mouser for screwing it up for all of us on the mega-mod. Due to what has been done it is no longer available.
If you don't believe me then I suggest you check the makers forum.
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:50 am

Dragatus wrote:
SaulottheGentle wrote:

We'll just have to test it out then, won't we? What a Face
*cracks knuckles* Twisted Evil
*Takes a deep breath, and whips out own V20 Book, flipped to Shepard's Watch*
I don't see anything in this book does it specify that the barrier is only psychological, nor any of it's physical qualities are explained. In all of the sources I've read on this power, as it follows the creation of it requires 2 willpower points, it extends 10 feet in diameter of the Salubri, a contested willpower roll must be made to cross. Intruder needs 3 successes more than the Salubri's successes to invade. Salubri needs 3 successes more than intruders own to paralyze him/her for 5 turns. Not to mention if using Auspex 2, the barrier certainly appears, and it's a golden color. *Slams shut book and web sources*

In any case, I feel that this is best left to the individual Storytellers to decide rather than the players.
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PostSubject: Re: Creative uses for Disciplines?   Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:57 am

"Enemies armed with guns or other ranged weapons can still attack, but none may approach closer than a few paces."

It doesn't stop mindless projectiles. This combined with the fact you can push through if you beat the Salubri in a Willpower roll makes me certain that it's a mental effect, not a physical one.

V20 doesn't mention anything about the barrier being visible with aura perception (or paralysis) so that is storyteller's discretion.
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