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 Weird Thought

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joemarra052075
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PostSubject: Weird Thought   Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:28 am

I had a very weird thought.

If by some chance you managed to commit Amaranth on Caine (I would guess that you would have to roll all ten's and he would have to roll all one's) would you, thanks to the details of God's curse saying a worse curse would befall any that killed Caine, become something even worse than a Vampire?

Silly thought I know but it's 6:30 am here and I haven't been to bed yet. The mind comes up with silly things.
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PGM1961
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:39 am

At first, Caine is worried that anyone who sees him will kill him.  (This raises the question of "How many other people were around by this time?"  But that's another topic.)  So God reassures him saying that, ""anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.”  Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him."  (Different translations give different wording, but you get the idea.)

So at first, it sounds like the threat of God's vengeance is the only thing protecting Caine.  But then God puts the mark on him.  Does this mark identify Caine, so that people will know that killing him will unleash God's wrath?  Or does this mark actually make it impossible to kill Caine, as some scholars have suggested?  If it's the latter, it may not be possible to Diablerize Caine.

However, if you do manage to slip Caine the amaranth, I guess your curse would be sevenfold worse than what Caine suffered... or maybe just one vengeance, done seven times?  The bible is unclear on this point.  (I know-- hard to believe, isn't it?  It's so clear everywhere else.)

From a game and Storyteller standpoint, it's a moot point -- if Caine is still around, despite what the Camarilla says, then your character would never be able to Diablerize him.  Not only is he the most powerful vampire in existence, but he can pretty much make up new disciplines at will.  Even if several characters managed to Diablerize Antediluvians, they would simply not have the skills to take down a vampire that powerful.  Any Storyteller stupid enough to let his players defeat Caine does not deserve to run a Masquerade game.
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:57 am

If it is a seven-times curse of Caine's curse, it's hard to imagine what that would be. I mean, what's worse than being an undead creature that must feed off humans to survive, cannot ever enjoy the thrills that life has to offer, and even after embracing a ton of children to spend eternity with, just gets to watch them all kill each other or make a mess of everything? According the some sources in the world of darkness at large, being a vampire can also mean that your soul stops being in the "cycle" and just stops existing. It's a pretty depressing existence.

However, on the matter of how one would kill Caine, obviously someone isn't familiar with Caine's Sheet.
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ThePhilosopher
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:00 pm

"Horrible parenting skills"

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Nachtrae
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:05 pm

"Only a fleshwound."
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:28 pm

LordNoir wrote:
If it is a seven-times curse of Caine's curse, it's hard to imagine what that would be. I mean, what's worse than being an undead creature that must feed off humans to survive, cannot ever enjoy the thrills that life has to offer, and even after embracing a ton of children to spend eternity with, just gets to watch them all kill each other or make a mess of everything? According the some sources in the world of darkness at large, being a vampire  can also mean that your soul stops being in the "cycle" and just stops existing. It's a pretty depressing existence.
Maybe your personality will be imposed into 7 independent bodies who not only suffer each from Caine's curse, but also have the imperative to kill each other over and over again... affraid  And you still know it's you in all the independent bodies, so each time one of you kills or hurts another one, all seven will feel it.

@PGM: I agree. Anybody who wants to play a character able to defeat creatures with god-like powers should stay at D&D...

geek 

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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:03 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
LordNoir wrote:
If it is a seven-times curse of Caine's curse, it's hard to imagine what that would be. I mean, what's worse than being an undead creature that must feed off humans to survive, cannot ever enjoy the thrills that life has to offer, and even after embracing a ton of children to spend eternity with, just gets to watch them all kill each other or make a mess of everything? According the some sources in the world of darkness at large, being a vampire  can also mean that your soul stops being in the "cycle" and just stops existing. It's a pretty depressing existence.
Maybe your personality will be imposed into 7 independent bodies who not only suffer each from Caine's curse, but also have the imperative to kill each other over and over again... affraid  And you still know it's you in all the independent bodies, so each time one of you kills or hurts another one, all seven will feel it.

@PGM: I agree. Anybody who wants to play a character able to defeat creatures with god-like powers should stay at D&D...

geek 

So whoever kills Caine becomes Voldemort and his horcruxes with vampire powers and a highlander-complex? affraid 
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Eliza
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:13 pm

I made the mistake of sipping at my Earl Grey while reading this topic. Good thing I had willpower points left to protect my monitor, otherwise I'd have spat tea at that last comment.  lol! 

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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:22 pm

I have an extremely weirder thought.

What if Caine's curse had been extended throughout all vampires? Not as in whoever got hurt (1 box of health) would suddenly result in the attacker recieving an even worse hit (7 boxes of health lost). But as in someone else would receive the pain seven times as worse due to someone else related to the attacked, like God himself promises vengeance upon those who hurt Caine.

In my mind, this would explain very greatly of how the Jyhad is and all of the backstabbing. One person gets hurt, they and their friends hurt the other in a disproportionate manner. A group gets hurt, the allies will rain hell on them. The loss of Carthage, the Sabbat Inquisition, the war between Camarilla and Sabbat, the Antedeluvians clan curses are practically giveaways.

And when it comes in mind to fighting Caine with the manner of curse I described...well, he has entire millennias underneath his belt, mastered every discipline and has God on his side...the only probable way to kill him would probably require nothing less than a miracle to kill him. And probably the entire military arsenal of all nations on Earth combined.
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joemarra052075
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:26 pm

As I said...the mind comes up with weird things during lack of sleep
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:46 pm

My suggestion:

Blow it up.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:48 pm

SaulottheGentle wrote:
I have an extremely weirder thought.

What if Caine's curse had been extended throughout all vampires? Not as in whoever got hurt (1 box of health) would suddenly result in the attacker recieving an even worse hit (7 boxes of health lost). But as in someone else would receive the pain seven times as worse due to someone else related to the attacked, like God himself promises vengeance upon those who hurt Caine.

In my mind, this would explain very greatly of how the Jyhad is and all of the backstabbing. One person gets hurt, they and their friends hurt the other in a disproportionate manner. A group gets hurt, the allies will rain hell on them. The loss of Carthage, the Sabbat Inquisition, the war between Camarilla and Sabbat, the Antedeluvians clan curses are practically giveaways.

And when it comes in mind to fighting Caine with the manner of curse I described...well, he has entire millennias underneath his belt, mastered every discipline and has God on his side...the only probable way to kill him would probably require nothing less than a miracle to kill him. And probably the entire military arsenal of all nations on Earth combined.
That htought isn't as weird as it sounds. It's just the way this whole old testament god works.
And since it's not only the god of the jewish religion but also the islam, there probably will only be one possible outcome for the whole palestine conflict: total extinction of at least one side.

@Eliza: Earl Grey it is? in that case: Phasers and photons armed and locked on Caine. Awaiting your orders, Captain.

geek 

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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:25 am

Make it so.
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Duncan.Oliver
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:21 am

Jad.3 wrote:
Make it so.

Picard: Fire at will.
Will: Wait, what?
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:29 am

Duncan.Oliver wrote:
Jad.3 wrote:
Make it so.

Picard: Fire at will.
Will:  Wait, what?

 Laughing 
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:31 pm

Duncan.Oliver wrote:
Jad.3 wrote:
Make it so.

Picard: Fire at will.
Will:  Wait, what?
Worf: *drawing phaser* Die with honor, Commander!

geek 

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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:33 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Duncan.Oliver wrote:
Jad.3 wrote:
Make it so.

Picard: Fire at will.
Will:  Wait, what?
Worf: *drawing phaser* Die with honor, Commander!

geek 

Q quietly pops in behind Worf munching on a tub of popcorn and enjoying the show.
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:50 pm

Duncan.Oliver wrote:
Jad.3 wrote:
Make it so.

Picard: Fire at will.
Will:  Wait, what?

Five hours, five hours dammit before I got the joke!
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:22 pm

Don't worry, you're Gangrel. Nobody expected better of you. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:41 am

Dragatus wrote:
Don't worry, you're Gangrel. Nobody expected better of you. Wink

I got it in seconds...

*rises fur and bares fangs at Dragatus*
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:37 pm

Oh come on. Surely you have enough Fortitude to survive a little mild teasing. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:38 pm

Feral wrote:
Dragatus wrote:
Don't worry, you're Gangrel. Nobody expected better of you. Wink

I got it in seconds...

*rises fur and bares fangs at Dragatus*

There, there Feral. *scratches behind ears and pets* Don't let the blood thieves get under your skin to use it to make another "creation".
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PostSubject: Re: Weird Thought   Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:50 pm

Fortitude is more for Physical challenges. Though high levels work for Mental too...

Thanks, Sally. I would not like yo end like poor Vora. Though a little Tremere Vitae isn't bad. Claudia makes fabulous cookies out of it. XD
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