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 Implement diablerie.

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azrael
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PostSubject: Implement diablerie.   Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:29 pm

Just that.
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joemarra052075
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:48 pm

azrael wrote:
Just that.

Seconded
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:49 pm

Very complicated ; There are very few kindred to diablerize, and to be honest, statistically, a week old neonate, even if as badass as the Bloodlines PC, wouldn't survive it....
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:55 pm

Claudia wrote:
Very complicated ; There are very few kindred to diablerize, and to be honest, statistically, a week old neonate, even if as badass as the Bloodlines PC, wouldn't survive it....

Wow..a PnP week old neonate would wipe the floor with the Bloodlines PC. Especially if they dots work the same in the stats and abilities.

In order for it to work two things would have to be added, generation and staking. Then a third thing would have to be added that anytime a NPC with Auspex of 2 would be able to sense that the PC had done the deed and would react accordingly with their views on it.
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:04 pm

joemarra052075 wrote:

In order for it to work two things would have to be added, generation and staking.  Then a third thing would have to be added that anytime a NPC with Auspex of 2 would be able to sense that the PC had done the deed and would react accordingly with their views on it.

In other words: Almost certainly impossible to be done with the game engine.
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:22 pm

ThePhilosopher wrote:
joemarra052075 wrote:

In order for it to work two things would have to be added, generation and staking.  Then a third thing would have to be added that anytime a NPC with Auspex of 2 would be able to sense that the PC had done the deed and would react accordingly with their views on it.

In other words: Almost certainly impossible to be done with the game engine.


Actually it shouldn't be that difficult if Malkav can add staking like he said he might be able to do in a different thread.

Now, mind you I haven't done any programming in years but here we go:

Generation would be a simple stat that would be applied to the PC and every NPC in the game. By the way I think Bloodlines works the primary benefit would be that it would use less blood per power and maybe a bigger blood pool. Base Gen would be 13th.

Auspex would be even simpler. If a character commits diablerie they gain a new trait that every NPC with an Auspex of 2 or greater would be able to see and react to.
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:36 pm

Let's say Malk manages to add a stat (generation) in the engine and add said stat to every vampire NPC in game.
Let's say Malk manages to add a stake-like mechanic in the game
Let's say Malk manages to add a diablerie mechanic where staked vampires become drainable
Let's say Malk manages to add a formula that lowers the PC generation stat if the vampire he drained was of lower generation
Let's say Malk manages to add the reaction check for auspex NPCs

What reactions you propose then? The official "rule" of the camarilla against diablerist is to eliminate them, maybe calling a blood hunt on them. Strauss, Tourette and the Nagloper are possible Auspex users that have nothing to gain from covering you up, the Sheriff even less so. The Prince would certainly be interested in knowing about diablerists on his domain, and reward hansomely for the info.

Among the anarchs, Venus is a possible auspex user who's far too soft to mingle with a diablerist. The anarch baron is also a possible auspex user with no reason to let you live if he finds out.

(Jack and Beckett are also possible candidates due to their old age, but possibly they wouldn't give a fuck)

If that's the reaction you propose, then the PC has no chance of survival, nor chance to complete the main quest.
If the reaction you propose is simply a voiced "hah you silly diablerist" by certain non-essetial NPCs, we would need a voice actor with access to recording equipment and a grunt to do the lip-syncing job.
The only reactions feasible would be a non-voiced, non-synched extra line for diablerists or no reaction at all. The last three options are the least cohesive with the lore and setting of WoD, while the last two are incredibly unprofessional.

I've been championing for diablerie since my first day, on the now defunct forum of TFN. It is either impossible or extremely costly (far beyond TCI means) to make a system of diablerie with the appropriate dangers and punishment that comes with it. So I say: If it interests Malkav, after he finishes his main plans for the new mod, he could do a diablerie addon, totally optional to download and install, that completly forsakes the "NPC reaction" part of the diablerie. Yes, that goes against the setting and lore. But the engine simply does not allows such a system to be translated perfectly into the game. You don't like the fact that you're able to diablerie everyone and talk to Strauss like nothing happened? Too bad, don't download the addon. Fuck your lore and setting, we just want that delicious kindred blood down our gullets.
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:48 pm

The primary use of it would be in the multi-player mode...and (at least when it came out) that was where the game shined.
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:05 pm

ThePhilosopher wrote:

Among the anarchs, Venus is a possible auspex user who's far too soft to mingle with a diablerist. The anarch baron is also a possible auspex user with no reason to let you live if he finds out.

Although I greatly appreciate that you mentioned my favorite character in Bloodlines, I believe you meant to say Velvet.

As for Issac, he didn't care when you killed his messenger, so why should he care if the PC diablarizes someone? Better yet if the diablarized was his messenger.
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:33 pm

If Malkav could also add in merits and flaws (I know, I know more work) there is a merit called Hidden Diablerie that prevent's Auspex users from seeing the black veins in the Aura.
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:35 pm

joemarra052075 wrote:
The primary use of it would be in the multi-player mode...and (at least when it came out) that was where the game shined.

I might be grossly unaware, but I don't recall malkav or zer0 ever saying anything about bloodlines multiplayer, let alone that they're planning to make content for it. Does CE and/or TFN even work in multiplayer?

And yes you're right Sally. I remember she was called VV and I thought her name was Venus Vesuvius or something like that, but Venus is someone else. Whatever, I ain't gotta recall the names of any fucking toreador  Laughing

Elders in general are much more afraid of proven diablerists than undisciplined workers. I can't say how the baron would react any more than I could for Jack and/or Beckett  Neutral
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:49 pm

ThePhilosopher wrote:
joemarra052075 wrote:
The primary use of it would be in the multi-player mode...and (at least when it came out) that was where the game shined.

I might be grossly unaware, but I don't recall malkav or zer0 ever saying anything about bloodlines multiplayer, let alone that they're planning to make content for it. Does CE and/or TFN even work in multiplayer?

And yes you're right Sally. I remember she was called VV and I thought her name was Venus Vesuvius or something like that, but Venus is someone else. Whatever, I ain't gotta recall the names of any fucking toreador  Laughing

Elders in general are much more afraid of proven diablerists than undisciplined workers. I can't say how the baron would react any more than I could for Jack and/or Beckett  Neutral

Hmmm..maybe I should make a new thread for a modded multiplayer..but I would also want to know if anyone would be willing to play on it. (Could be fun for Claudia's game for instance to every once in a while set up a day and time and everyone meet on bloodlines in character in an elysium(sp).)
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:13 am

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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:15 am

As I posted in another thread I was getting the multiplayer thing mixed up with Vampire: Redemption.

On the other thread I posted a link to a already completed multiplayer mod.

I don't know how that one is, but since you guys are the Bloodlines Mod Kings I'm sure you could put something together that was spectacular.
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:17 pm

I can't work on the actual engine. the only option I have is work around the limitations with python.
For diablery, I agree there is no way for the character to get away with it. Too many auspex users who would either deal with a diablerizer themselves or inform the prince.

geek 

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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:14 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
I can't work on the actual engine. the only option I have is work around the limitations with python.
For diablery, I agree there is no way for the character to get away with it. Too many auspex users who would either deal with a diablerizer themselves or inform the prince.

geek 
Makes sense to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:11 am

Ahem, from the rulebook:

Hidden Diablerie (3pt. Merit)
The tell-tale black streaks of diablerie do not manifest in your aura.
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:24 am

So it's oh so convenient that the PC just so happens to have that one merit...

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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:25 am

I don't even consider getting away with it once it's done. A week old neonate wouldn't survive the act itself anyway !

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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:53 am

Nor would they survive beating a bunch of elders to death with their bare hands or killing a werewolf. Didn't stop my character from doing it, though.

And it's a 3-point merit, and considering it's implied that diablerie is a lot more common than the Camarilla likes to admit (the veins disappear after two years on their own, though you'd never be able to conceal it from a Tremere who really wanted to find out), it might be a bit more of a common merit than you'd think.
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:56 am

Claudia wrote:
I don't even consider getting away with it once it's done. A week old neonate wouldn't survive the act itself anyway !


ThePhilosopher wrote:

What reactions you propose then? The official "rule" of the camarilla against diablerist is to eliminate them, maybe calling a blood hunt on them. Strauss, Tourette and the Nagloper are possible Auspex users that have nothing to gain from covering you up, the Sheriff even less so. The Prince would certainly be interested in knowing about diablerists on his domain, and reward hansomely for the info.

Among the anarchs, Venus is a possible auspex user who's far too soft to mingle with a diablerist. The anarch baron is also a possible auspex user with no reason to let you live if he finds out.

(Jack and Beckett are also possible candidates due to their old age, but possibly they wouldn't give a fuck)

If that's the reaction you propose, then the PC has no chance of survival, nor chance to complete the main quest.
If the reaction you propose is simply a voiced "hah you silly diablerist" by certain non-essetial NPCs, we would need a voice actor with access to recording equipment and a grunt to do the lip-syncing job.
The only reactions feasible would be a non-voiced, non-synched extra line for diablerists or no reaction at all. The last three options are the least cohesive with the lore and setting of WoD, while the last two are incredibly unprofessional.

I've been championing for diablerie since my first day, on the now defunct forum of TFN. It is either impossible or extremely costly (far beyond TCI means) to make a system of diablerie with the appropriate dangers and punishment that comes with it. So I say: If it interests Malkav, after he finishes his main plans for the new mod, he could do a diablerie addon, totally optional to download and install, that completly forsakes the "NPC reaction" part of the diablerie. Yes, that goes against the setting and lore. But the engine simply does not allows such a system to be translated perfectly into the game. You don't like the fact that you're able to diablerie everyone and talk to Strauss like nothing happened? Too bad, don't download the addon. Fuck your lore and setting, we just want that delicious kindred blood down our gullets.
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:58 am

I'm playing the Final Nights right now and I've actually increasingly wished I could use diablerie with some of the new clans.  Before that though, I always though it would be poetic justice if we could at least use diablerie against Bruno Giovanni considering the families history.  It's something I'd definitely be interested in downloading should the option ever become available.  Not that we should be able to drain the main characters or anything, but it would be nice to drain some of the villains if they're going to die anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:33 am

I can't see any way a diablerist could survive. And even if he could survive, there'd be no chance to finish the game.
O.K. You can avoid Strauss. Isaak would probably have you killed, or at least he would force you out of his domain. Therese/Tourette would sell you off to the prince. Don't know about Jeanette. I'm sure the prince will have all visitors checked by an Auspex user...
So while it's technically possible to allow feeding from vampires, I'd also have you killed at your next visit at the tower or the chantry. And the sheriff called in when you visit the Asylum as a Diablerist if Therese is still around. And I don't know what possible benefit there might be.

geek 

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PostSubject: Re: Implement diablerie.   Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:19 pm

Ditto.

In a nutshell, too many Auspex users.

Plus, Camarilla really frowns at Amaranth. Elders fear the young Licks waaay too much to overlook it. Were VtMB set in a Sabbat city, then maybe. As it is, no go.
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