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 How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?

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Alucard92
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PostSubject: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:02 pm

I have a few questions

I was wondering why change some of the disciplines in the game such as - Beckoning (Replaced Summon Wolfie, New Sound/Graphics) ? And some of the others like mass suicide and so on. Was their balencing issues or were they glitchy because they look pretty badass. I dont mean to insult this mod in any way i bought this game when it came out and was rather annoyed with all the bugs. I picked it out of my old gaming bin and thought of playing it again Very Happy . sadly it dident work so i tryed steam and now it wont work because i have vista! Mad

Is this gem worth getting windows 7 i heard from a friend that its compatiable with this game and he told me their have been patches and awesome mods out for it that got me coming back. I was wondering what opinions people have for me on what mods would make this game perfect for my new replay through.

mods im looking at:

arsenal mod- looks cool but not that sure. bugs mostly and i dont know if i like it replacing the old weapons is it for the better?

camarilla edition- (of course) only thing im worried about is if the discipline changes are for the better because some of the old ones were awesome. Blood timer is genius!!!

companion mod- cool to have people fight with you but it might be a little to easy

clan quest mod- http://www.moddb.com/mods/vtmb-clan-quest-mod here it says it integrates several other mods. Dose this mean it will add these along with it? Or dose it simply mean its compatiable with it?

Weapons Sounds Mod- awesome sounds.

and lastly Unofficial Patch 6.6 is a no brainer.

I know that only one of my questions was related to this mod but i just want to play one of my favorite games at its fullest. And any advice and a answer to my question would be amazing and thank you for taking time to read this post.
Awesome job on this mod!!!
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Claudia
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:50 am

The problem with playing various mods is that if one mod is updated, if it's not on the pack, it will not work out. They are mods ;-)

For instance, Clan Quest Mod 1.2.1 (latest up to date, right ?) has unofficial patches up to 6.5 (I think) and CE 1.1 But if you want to play with CE 1.2, you have to forget about Clan Quest Mod. Files are erased and remplaced by new files, they are not merged together.. Therefore, if two mods have two different files for Strauss' dialogues, well it will be either one or the other, they can't fusion like Goten and Trunks.

When Clan Quest Mod will have an update to become CQM 1.3, they'll probably make a new pack with CE 1.2 (and maybe 1.3 if it is released then).




For my experience, playing with CE 1.2 only (which has unofficial patches up to 6.5 if I'm not wong) and playing with CQM 1.2.1 (yes I did two installs, no I am not ashamed), either way is awesome. It's like playing another clan and aiming for another ending, it changes everything.

If I were you, I'd go for CQM 1.2.1 full install (with the mods and patches it has on the pack) and poke around. New disciplines are very interesting, and on my expertise, closer to the original disciplines of the pen and paper game. Animalism and Dementation are just awesome Smile And Thaumaturgy is less powerfull (so the game is a bit harder = challenge !). CQM has very very interesting pluses, since they added more visible things (especially if you play a character for her clan), but CE 1.3 has also very visible new things (I'm talking blood dolls here). I hope they'll merge soon Wink

But that may just be what I thought of it...
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:34 pm

Thank you Claudia for responding so fast your insight was very helpful cheers .

I see what you mean with the mods not working with all these patches and versions they can get a little confusing at times. confused Im just going to have to experiment with all these great mods and find which one is to more of my taste. If any one else has any other opinions that could help It would be greatly apreciated. I love you
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:09 pm

Well, about what is the best for your experience depends on.. you.
Actually, it will depend on how do you play your characters.

I play soundless most of the time because I know all of the talking and I have the musics -clubs and streets, combat and not combat- on my mp3 player, except for the Ocean House Hotel which should be played with earphones, in the dark, and late at night, so you can imagine anything changing the sounds or music doesn't appeal to me (although new music by CE is very interesting, I turned on the sound to hear a little bit of it, but once I got the feeling..).

Concerning CQM, when it says it integrates other mods, it means that those mods are being installed together with CQM (but in the installation setup, I think you can choose if you instal or do not instal Arsenal Mod, for which I haven't noticed very different things, but that's because I'm way more into the role-playing than into zombie slashing).


What I'd recommend is that you play once with CQM 1.2.1 (the one on your link) full install, so you have a good overview of what the community is doing here and there, and once with CE 1.2 only (which means a full reinstall of the game).
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:01 pm

Wow Claudia your the shit hahah thank you so much!!! Very Happy

You have definitely answered all my questions. I think its time to go through this game again. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:17 pm

Well I want to help (and I got too much free time...) Wink
Anyway I'm sure other will give you a more obtective vision of the mods Smile
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:12 pm

These are all great questions Alucard, for someone just coming back to start playing Bloodlines again, who has been absent and want to know whats available as far as mods go, this is a great question to ask.

I will try to break down your question one mod at a time...

You pretty much named all of the most popular mods in your list...

Arsenal Mod- I haven't played this one yet but from the screenshots it appears to add new skins, models, and sounds to the weapons. From what I understand it also changes the weapon damage as well, how I don't know, but I wouldn't suggest playing this mod with another mod that manipulates weapon damage, like CE for instance.

Camarilla Edition - Oh course I'm a little biased being the creator of this mod, but the whole idea of this mod was to overhaul the game by fixing anything that needed improvement, add new content, and create a new overall feeling of "Newness" so players could experience Bloodlines again "For the first time". Anyone who has beaten Bloodlines 50+ times still loves the game, but we have all but memorized every nook and cranny and we got bored. My goal was to RE-offer Bloodlines back to the veterans for a truly NEW experience, especially seeing that no new VtM games are going to come out anytime soon, Bloodlines and Redemption are all we've got to play with. The changes and added content are so radical that a professionally made game manual was created explaining everything you need to know to play (it really feels like a new game honestly). What CE DOESN'T do is add new quests or change weapon skins and sounds. Fortunately others have already gone down this road.

Companion Mod - Again another VERY popular mod that I've never played. I've watched youtube videos on it and from what I see it looks amazing and professionally done. This mod are for people who would like to be able to embrace someone other than Heather, and have them fight along side you. How does this effect game balance? I don't know but I would think the game would be alot easier. I prefer to solo in my RPGs, like Oblivion and Fallout, games like Dragon Age where they force you to control more than 1 person drive me nuts, so this mod really isn't for me. This mod is NOT compatible with any other mods.

Clan Quest Mod - Now this one I've played and Burgermeister (the creator) did an amazing job on it. He even hired professional voice actors to speak the new lines of pre-existing NPCs, like Damsel and Bertram. What this mod does is add 1 unique clan specific quest for each clan so you can learn more about that individual clan. In order to play all of the new quests you have to play that specific clan. What this mod DOESN'T do is make any changes to game balance or add new content in any way except for the 7 new quests, therefor this mod can be mixed with many other mods like Arsenal Mod or Weapon Sound mods. This mod is NOT compatible with Companion Mod or CE 1.2, however CQM 1.2.1 integrates CE 1.1.

Weapons Sounds Mod- Pretty self explanatory. I'm sure this is compatible with any other mods, even CE 1.2.

Unofficial Patch 6.8 - 6.8 is the latest to date of Wesp's Unofficial Patches. His BASIC patch simply fixes bugs and I highly recommend this if you want to play vanilla Bloodlines bug free. His PLUS patch is the same as the BASIC except he threw in some added content he felt would improve the game, such as allowing you to save Heather's life. It's more of a Mod than a patch really but many people seem to like the changes.


Overall my opinion, if you're looking for a brand new overall experience to the original game and concept, I would recommend CE 1.2 stand-alone. If you want companions and are looking for more "TEAM" play, definately go with Companion Mod. If you want brand new quests and a more in-depth look at each of the 7 original clans, CQM 1.2.1 is for you. If you want to play the good ol' fashioned original Bloodlines without the bugs, UP 6.8 BASIC is what I'd install. All other mods are more or less bells and whistles really that concentrate on eye or ear candy.

Of course it really comes down to what YOU want for your Bloodlines experience, and if you have a chance I would try them all. I hope my little review helps you out and anyone else just coming back to Bloodlines from years of being away and are looking to enhance their Bloodlines game.
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Alucard92
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:11 pm

Wow i must say i am utterly stuned by all the help i have received Shocked . I was honestly expecting to get a two sentenced breif explination on how i should return to this awesome game and instead i am blown away on how thorough of an explination I got ....WOW Exclamation

Zer0Morph I love your mod i started playing again yesterday and its a completly diffrent experience than i had with the original version. Its amazing on all the things you and your team acomplished and your not even getting payed and yet you guys took the time out of your lives to expand a game that was rushed out even tho it was way ahead of its time as ways of rpgs go. And I am the same way with rpgs i normally like going solo having npcs follow you around and having to upgrade their charcter along side yours and their gear can get a little overwhelming. I am also a huge fan of Bethesda's Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3 they took so many hours out of my social life it was ridiculous geek . It would be interesting tho to see Oblivion and Fallout in co-op tho Smile .
Anyways (MORE PRAISE)! I am amazed at your professionalism and how detailed of an answer you gave me in each individual section. It answered all my questions and then some THANK YOU so much! Very Happy

This is a amazing community that we have here on this game thank you Claudia and Zer0Morph for such a quick reply and step by step what the mods do and how they work and what i should do to experience this game in a new way Wink you guys/gals kick ass! I feel bad that i cant give you guys anything in return but my gratitude and my thanks. Sad

If this game were in real life i would be Zer0Morph and Claudias blood dolls hahah dorky vampire humor Laughing.
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:33 pm

HAHA your last comment made me LAWL! geek

Well I don't know what to say other than "Thank You for the praise" and I'm really glad you like what you see in our mod. CE has turned out to be much bigger than I originally thought possible thanks to all of the incredible fans that have jumped in to help. So many minds, so many ideas from all around the world have gathered and thanks to their hard work, I think we've come up with something that everyone can enjoy.

To be honest, the only reason I stick around here is because of wonderful posts just like yours that we get on occasion. It's the fuel that drives modders to continue pushing the envelope in terms of newer and cooler things.

Thanks again for your support and praise and do visit the "Ideas" thread because we'd like to hear how you think CE could be even more improved! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:47 pm

Well, concerning me, as you got no life because of gaming, I got no life because.. Well.. Because I'm a college student.
But not hard college where you actually need to work, I have about 15 hours a week of class in Practical Foreign languages (for Spanish and English), in which I'm very good at...


Anyway I just tried to give a "player" point of view here, I do think Zer0's post was more helpfull but...


Zer0, do you think it may be possible one day to merge many, many "mods" and patches and adds together ? Maybe something with CE, CQM, antitribu... ? Anything that adds new quests (which don't interfere with each other of course), correct bugs and adds blood dolls (and other characters you can interact with)...
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:53 pm

Would be a lot of work unless there is an appending system that can be utilised rather than an overwriting system. As far as I know the engine doesn't have an inbuilt appending command, only complete overwrites of files are used to patch up information.
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:30 pm

That's whay I thought about the overwritting thingy Sad

Thanks people8 Smile
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:54 pm

Well I had to merge CE 1.1 with UP 6.6 so I am familiar with merging and yes it is difficult. What needs to happen is...

You take the core files from mod A
Take the core files from mod B

Then use a software program that is able to do a file comparison between any overlapping files and it will show you the differences between the 2 files. From there you must look and see what you can use and what you can't. When 2 different mods change the same thing you have to decide which changes to use and what to discard, which really comes down to personal preference and your decisions can weigh heavily on game balance.

After all of that is done you need to test all of the changes using ALL possible combinations to see if you can break something. If you can, you fix it, if you can't, you move on to the next change, until ALL changes have been thoroughly tested.

Lastly you need BETA testers who can see if they can find issues, glitches, game imbalances etc....

Then you advertise your product, let the community know what your doing and reveal it to the world, crossing your fingers that all goes well.

This process can last months... So all in all, yea it's a long tedious process that requires patience and dedication to the team merging mods.

Your question: Is it possible to merge these popular mods together? Yes it's possible, hell anything is possible if someone is willing to put in the time and knows how to do it. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:55 am

And there is a further problem: every time one of the mods releases a new version, you have to do the whole process again affraid
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:31 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
And there is a further problem: every time one of the mods releases a new version, you have to do the whole process again affraid

You're so right about that!
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:44 pm

Yes I know that and I understand, but making the process about once a year seems reasonable (the problem is getting everymodder on a sort of schedule, but am I wrong to think most of you know each other at some point or another ?).
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:44 pm

I wish this can be done too but we also have to consider that modders do in fact have lives Laughing . I think what Zer0Morph, 8people, and childe of malkav are saying is that what you are talking about can be accomplished its just all the time and effort shit it gives me a headache just thinking about it.
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:07 pm

Then you have creative differences between modders, people not wanting to combine mods, people not wanting to play combinations of mods, bugs caused by installation orders meaning a modder can't update his mod because another modder isn't updating theirs for a few months now...

In short, modders do not work like development teams. If they did they wouldn't be modders and mods would lose a lot of flexibility and charm.

We do what we do in our own time, to our own schedule - if you want us to work like we're in the industry - you're going to have to expect to pay for it as you would any other developed project.
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:09 pm

Pay? Did somebody mention pay? Man I wish I got paid for 5,000+ hours I've put into CE, HAHA!

8people's right though, to fulfill all of the requests we modders get for this and that, we'd have to quit our day jobs meaning we'd need money to do it.
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:15 pm

Zero I have a question. If my memory doesn't fail me, Burgermeister said some time ago that he was working on mixing the latest clan quest with CE 1.2. Is he still working on that?
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:23 pm

Honestly I haven't talked to him since January, or wait was it December. Either way I'm not sure what he's doing, I know he had the intention of merging CQM 1.3 w/ CE 1.2 a few months ago but he's fallen off the radar since then.

I plan on sending him an email here soon to say hi, and I need his help with some scripting questions for a project I'm working on.
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:52 pm

Is the project bloodlines related ? Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:25 pm

Indeed it is... Razz
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:18 pm

Can you give us some hint what it is exactly going to be about? Razz
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PostSubject: Re: How to get the best experience out of vtmb? And why change some disciplines?   Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:13 pm

A hint... hmmm lemme see here. Well let me just say that I've been working on it for weeks, nobody knows about it, and it's going to require a 2nd forum linked to this one.

Thats all I'm going to say about it for now, it's still VERY early in the works and now that I'm working fulltime again, the amount of time I can spend on it is limited. Let me just say this, if I can manage to do everything that I have planned... OMG, it's going to smoke anything you've seen so far.

No more hints until I get more finished.
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