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 Dancing and humanity

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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Dancing and humanity   Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:31 am

Does anybody know how to disable the humanity gain for dancing?

I don't like the easy humanity gain through dialog and dancing anyway. So I'm changing the dialog based humanity gains to small xp gains. 1 to 3 xp depending on the situation, and in some cases on your current humanity just as I made the humanity losses dependent on humanity according to the sins table.
Remember that I also changed the xp needed to increase stats by a factor ten, so 3 xp is a lot less than it looks like on first view.
This way friendly behaviour will gain a small bonus, but has less impact on the game than the original method. So if you decide to play evil you loose only very little compared to the other way. That might help even the minmaxers to play more according to your character's personality and less to the needs of powergaming.

As an afterthought, since I have dropped the double humanity gain/loss for Toreador and made humanity loss easier for them, should I give them more xp in the humanitygain situations?

What do you think about this idea?

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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:18 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:
That might help even the minmaxers to play more according to your character's personality and less to the needs of powergaming.

Go team Malkav! It might encourage even, well... Me... to cut on powergaming.

Childe of Malkav wrote:

As an afterthought, since I have dropped the double humanity gain/loss for Toreador and made humanity loss easier for them, should I give them more xp in the humanitygain situations?

What do you think about this idea?

I think it is valid. Torries are simply better at this game, so they should get more out of it.
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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:40 pm

I ran into this problem with the Baali being able to dance to gain humanity past their limit which is 6. To remove this potential bug, I simply removed the dance logo for the Baali clan only. I'm sure you're looking for a solution where the PC can still dance, it just doesn't give Humanity after 5 minutes of doing it. I'm not sure where that is to change it. It seems hardcoded or something. scratch
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Dragatus
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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:03 pm

If you remove dancing altogether, that would be acceptable to me.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:58 pm

If there isn't an easier way like making the game think the character has already gained humanity at this dance spot I can think of two other solutions.
-I could try to force the player out of the dance before the five minutes are up.
- I can try to remove the electric bugaloo trigger and recreate the effect in another way.

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malak
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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:52 pm

Would it be possible to change the time required to gain humanity by dancing to something ridiculously long (over 9000 hours)? Seems like that would be the easiest way to 'fix' this, assuming you can find where that line of code exists.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:42 pm

malak wrote:
Would it be possible to change the time required to gain humanity by dancing to something ridiculously long (over 9000 hours)? Seems like that would be the easiest way to 'fix' this, assuming you can find where that line of code exists.
If that line existed in one of the editable files I could change it. But as it is, I'll have to think about something else.

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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:48 pm

hmm. Does it use an internal clock that you could lie to, or does it track off the system clock? Could you feasibly make a cloned system clock, then slow it down by a few orders of magnitude? Would probably require refinagling the bloodloss timer to the new clock, so most likely more work than it is worth, but it's an idea.

Been far too long since I've danced for humanity. IIRC, each spot will only give one humanity rating across the entire game. How does the game track this? Could you have all of them 'pre-triggered' by Jacks initial dialog? If so, even if you cannot remove them, by lowering humanity by 5, then triggering all of them, it comes to a net zero.
Other thought would be to link them all together, such that you can only get one humanity from the dancing, vice 5. A half-measure, but mayhaps a functional one.

Both of those are assuming that I am correct in that each spot only rewards once, though.
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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:04 pm

I've checked the map files where dancing is allowed and I have yet to find a timer or a function that points to a timer in a python file but it has to be located somewhere, just not sure where.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:33 am

Since appearently both the timer and the counter are hardcoded, I think I'll go about it in another way. Replace the trigger electric bugaloo with a simple switch, define dance as the use icon for the switch, let the switch handle the activating/deactivating of the dance spots, and create a playercontroller to force the pc to dance.
Perhaps I should first try kicking the player out of the dance after 4 minutes or so.

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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:25 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Perhaps I should first try kicking the player out of the dance after 4 minutes or so.

Do you think some people will see that as a bug and report it?

"Why does my character stop dancing after 4 minutes, it keeps me from getting the Humanity point I want!!!" No
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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:15 pm

People are for sure going to think it's a bug. If you go for this, make it stop the dancing after 1 minute.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:15 pm

I've been working on changing the electric bugaloo to a normal switch and forcing the player in a scripted sequence dance. But as yet it doesn't work as intended.
Well I still have some aces up my sleeve, but I hope I don't need them. Would be a very ugly hack...

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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:19 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Would be a very ugly hack...

We already know your hacks are ugly, we've gotten used to it, it's okay! lol!
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:19 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Childe of Malkav wrote:
Would be a very ugly hack...

We already know your hacks are ugly, we've gotten used to it, it's okay! lol!
Not as ugly as this one. Promise. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:58 am

Forcing the player out of a dance came to my mind too. But please, don't remove dancing altogether! Where would I learn my moves?
Anyway, I wouldn't remove dialogue gains for Humanity. Instead, could you make it like the losses are? Meaning, if the PC is too far down the spiral, they don't gain anything, or they don't even get the dialogue option. Compassion or whatever is meaningless to them. Well, a suggestion Smile
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:42 am

Jad.3 wrote:
Forcing the player out of a dance came to my mind too. But please, don't remove dancing altogether! Where would I learn my moves?
I found a way to kick you out of the dance. I set it to 3 minutes. Of course you can still stop dancing any time you like before the three minutes are up.
(Zer0, I send you a pm with the code)
Quote :
Anyway, I wouldn't remove dialogue gains for Humanity. Instead, could you make it like the losses are? Meaning, if the PC is too far down the spiral, they don't gain anything, or they don't even get the dialogue option. Compassion or whatever is meaningless to them. Well, a suggestion Smile
I've been thinking about this too, but doesn't it limit the player's choices too much?
And how do I decide which act deserves humaity gain and what is the range of current humanity.
For example I wouldn't give a player with humanity 9 or 10 a bonus for comforting Hannah...

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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:46 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Jad.3 wrote:
Anyway, I wouldn't remove dialogue gains for Humanity. Instead, could you make it like the losses are? Meaning, if the PC is too far down the spiral, they don't gain anything, or they don't even get the dialogue option. Compassion or whatever is meaningless to them. Well, a suggestion Smile
I've been thinking about this too, but doesn't it limit the player's choices too much?

I don't think much about limiting choices. Having dialogue limited due to low Humanity is even vanilla thing, right?

Childe of Malkav wrote:
And how do I decide which act deserves humaity gain and what is the range of current humanity.
For example I wouldn't give a player with humanity 9 or 10 a bonus for comforting Hannah...

Frankly, I don't know and imo it is for a longer and exciting discussion Smile We can start by identifying all the opportunies (I can do that, but dear reader feel free to pitch in), and flame about it for later versions.
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PostSubject: Re: Dancing and humanity   Today at 8:19 pm

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