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 Clan Change - Warriors of Set

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Should we change the clan or keep it the same?
Change them to the Warriors of Set
23%
 23% [ 3 ]
Keep them regular Followers of Set
77%
 77% [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 13
 

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Cretino
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:10 am

Did Nosferatu have Fortitude or Potence?
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:22 am

Cretino wrote:
Did Nosferatu have Fortitude or Potence?

Potence. Awesome clan to play!
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:47 am

For the game mechanics. You can't lower stats in python. and the only console command for it is vstats sell.
So it has to be an item. Make it undroppable and unsellable like the clothes and put a note nearby to state that this is a one time opportunity. And if the player doesn't take the item, remove it on the next mapload. Or put it in the mailbox, and the note as an email or close to the ones from Strauss and Mercurio.
The problem is, you ned two items, one if the removed discipline has 1 dot, and another if the removed discipline has 2.
If you decide to do something like this, contact me for the details of scripting.

Wait, I have an idea. It might be possible to write a script that uses vstats sell to get rid of the old discipline and vstats buy to get the new one. That is if you can sell down to -1.

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kyoden
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:51 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Let me describe the problem in more detail. Say you want to play a Setite. You select a Warrior history and open the sheet where the dots are placed. Then you decide that you prefer Obfuscate over Potence. So you go back to the clan selection sheet.
And here is the problem. If you just switch to a Follower history, the disciplines in the sheet don't change. So before you can use the Followr, you must select another clan, open the charactersheet for that character, and then return to Setite. Now the correct disciplines will show.

Why is that so? I assume that you can use the histories to load different disciplines?

I personally would add a line which explains which disciplines this clan has in the clan description anyways. While alot of people are familiar with some of vampire lore certainly not all know about the Laibon etc.

So this would look like this:

"Osebo

clan desciption blabla

Osebo have AUS POT CEL as their clan disciplines."

-----------
"Followers of Set

clan description - (adding short info about both castes within the clan)

Followers of Set have disciplines depending on the history and therefore caste you choose"

-----------
Follower of Set histories will look something like this then:

"MMA Fighter

history text

Selecting this history will result in POT PRE SER beeing your clan disciplines as you belong to the warrior caste"
-----------

Now, the player is informed about his choices before he makes them. Of course he could always decide for something different. The likelyhood is very much decreased though. And while you say that histories maybe shouldn't influence which section of a clan embraces you, actually it is very important. As a warrior it is much more likely to embrace that mma fighter (just an example) instead of the book worm to pass on my legacy.

I know that you want the player to explore things for added replayability. I do think it is important to let the players know that there is something they actually can explore and play differently. Thats why I wanted to history description modified as well. Maybe I never had the idea to play my character that way, but the presented story and bonuses help me to gain a picture of my new character.

-----------

@Zer0 I totally understand what you are saying and I never want to havea "modded" bloodlines. Everything should feel as it could be in vanilla version of the game. I as you know have 0 clues about how python works. I only propose things and you tell me if it is interesting to pursue and if it is doable of course. We all want this to be awesome!

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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:10 am

Kyoden, you can change the disciplines with histories, but the changes don't show until you have opened the stats screen for another clan. As for why, ask Troika or the source engine developers.

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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:39 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:
For the game mechanics. You can't lower stats in python. and the only console command for it is vstats sell.
So it has to be an item. Make it undroppable and unsellable like the clothes and put a note nearby to state that this is a one time opportunity. And if the player doesn't take the item, remove it on the next mapload. Or put it in the mailbox, and the note as an email or close to the ones from Strauss and Mercurio.
The problem is, you ned two items, one if the removed discipline has 1 dot, and another if the removed discipline has 2.
If you decide to do something like this, contact me for the details of scripting.

Wait, I have an idea. It might be possible to write a script that uses vstats sell to get rid of the old discipline and vstats buy to get the new one. That is if you can sell down to -1.
In this way you could add a Brujah history for the Osebo (that wouldn't change much the penalties of the clan) and maybe a Toreador history for the Ishtarri bounce
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:32 pm

I just wrote this new python script in vamputil.py. Do you think this would even work? I'm at work right now so I can't test it out.

def VstatsBuy(char, StatName):
char.VstatsBuy(StatName)
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:01 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
I just wrote this new python script in vamputil.py. Do you think this would even work? I'm at work right now so I can't test it out.

def VstatsBuy(char, StatName):
   char.VstatsBuy(StatName)
It won't work that way for several resons.
First, the syntax is not correct. The command is vstats, and it takes three arguments: buy/sell/get; Attribute/Ability/discipline; #
Then it doesn't need the specification pc.
But the biggest problem is that it is a console command. I'm not sure if you can pass arguments to console commands via python. Have to research it. And in any case you have to include any console commands in a try/except block when you use them from python.

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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:35 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
It won't work that way for several resons.
First, the syntax is not correct. The command is vstats, and it takes three arguments: buy/sell/get; Attribute/Ability/discipline; #
Then it doesn't need the specification pc.
But the biggest problem is that it is a console command. I'm not sure if you can pass arguments to console commands via python. Have to research it. And in any case you have to include any console commands in a try/except block when you use them from python.

I'm humbled to even stand in your presence, oh great master. Embarassed

I know so little... Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:21 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Childe of Malkav wrote:
....

I'm humbled to even stand in your presence, oh great master. Embarassed

I know so little... Crying or Very sad
Well, this post wasn't intended to beg for compliments. But no monkey rejects the key to the banana plantation... cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:38 pm

I find Potence in Bloodlines to be a rather boring discipline and would prefer to keep the Setites as they are.
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:31 pm

Dragatus wrote:
I find Potence in Bloodlines to be a rather boring discipline and would prefer to keep the Setites as they are.

I've got a great idea! Let's just do whatever Zer0 wants to do, HAHAHAHA! rabbit rabbit rabbit rabbit
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Maxus Corvin
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:35 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Dragatus wrote:
I find Potence in Bloodlines to be a rather boring discipline and would prefer to keep the Setites as they are.

I've got a great idea! Let's just do whatever Zer0 wants to do, HAHAHAHA! rabbit rabbit rabbit rabbit

I'm game.

Please do not shoot us.
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:37 pm

Maxus Corvin wrote:
Zer0Morph wrote:
Dragatus wrote:
I find Potence in Bloodlines to be a rather boring discipline and would prefer to keep the Setites as they are.

I've got a great idea! Let's just do whatever Zer0 wants to do, HAHAHAHA! rabbit rabbit rabbit rabbit

I'm game.

Please do not shoot us.

HAHA! Actually your post just gave me an idea. What if I create a bunch of false accounts to agree with myself and increase the vote count, then can I have a snake with potence?
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:39 pm

Personally, I would vote, although I'd go for the compromise if possible. If not, well, I don't mind it either way.
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:48 pm

If we can't get the item (vstats) idea to work and since I already don't like the idea of using histories for disciplines, castes, or bloodlines, I'd like to make the Followers of Set the Warriors of Set and put the Vizier caste back to the Warrior caste for Assamites...

But since I see that everyone but Malak hates that idea, I guess I'm stuck with status quo.
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:57 am

Seems like the vstats approach won't work. You can sell back to -1. But I haven't found a way to enter the command via python, and if I'm not completely mistaken, there is none.

Item should work, with preparation:
-in clandoc, set both disciplines to 1
-in traitseffects clan, set the optional discipline "modifier" "-2"
in traitseffects item, set the standard discipline "modifier" "-2" and the optional discipline "modifier" "+2"

Make the item undroppable and unsellable, and put a warning message nearby, then it can't be exploited.
One more thing. You need two items. One if the discipline is level 1, one if it's level 2. And I hope the necessary "+3" doesn't make the 2nd dot in the new discipline blue.

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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:21 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Seems like the vstats approach won't work. You can sell back to -1. But I haven't found a way to enter the command via python, and if I'm not completely mistaken, there is none.

Item should work, with preparation:
-in clandoc, set both disciplines to 1
-in traitseffects clan, set the optional discipline "modifier" "-2"
in traitseffects item, set the standard discipline "modifier" "-2" and the optional discipline "modifier" "+2"

Make the item undroppable and unsellable, and put a warning message nearby, then it can't be exploited.
One more thing. You need two items. One if the discipline is level 1, one if it's level 2. And I hope the necessary "+3" doesn't make the 2nd dot in the new discipline blue.

Thanks for putting in the time to make this work Malkav. In your opinion, given my obsessive need for professionalism and consistency, do you think this would be professional? It seems a little messy and the more I think about it, the less I like the idea. If we decide not to do this, then I'll just keep the Setites how they are now, as Followers, not Warriors (to my disappointment). I suppose I can just swap Obfuscate for Potence in my own game since I know how.
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:28 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Dragatus wrote:
I find Potence in Bloodlines to be a rather boring discipline and would prefer to keep the Setites as they are.

I've got a great idea! Let's just do whatever Zer0 wants to do, HAHAHAHA! rabbit rabbit rabbit rabbit

*shrugs*

Your mod, you can do what you want. But you wanted to know people's opinions so I gave you mine. Wink

One thing you could do is give all clans the 3 physical disciplines Celerity, Fortitude and Potence. But make it 50% more expensive to raise them if they're not your clan disciplines. However, this would make the already dull Ishtari and Osebo even more boring than they already are since both of those clans feature 2 physical disciplines.
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:41 pm

Dragatus wrote:
*shrugs*

Your mod, you can do what you want. But you wanted to know people's opinions so I gave you mine. Wink

One thing you could do is give all clans the 3 physical disciplines Celerity, Fortitude and Potence. But make it 50% more expensive to raise them if they're not your clan disciplines. However, this would make the already dull Ishtari and Osebo even more boring than they already are since both of those clans feature 2 physical disciplines.

I think I'll just keep it the same and modify my own personal game when I see fit. Let the community have what they want. Zer0 loses out again... Crying or Very sad LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:11 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Dragatus wrote:
*shrugs*

Your mod, you can do what you want. But you wanted to know people's opinions so I gave you mine. Wink

One thing you could do is give all clans the 3 physical disciplines Celerity, Fortitude and Potence. But make it 50% more expensive to raise them if they're not your clan disciplines. However, this would make the already dull Ishtari and Osebo even more boring than they already are since both of those clans feature 2 physical disciplines.
Hm, all physical disciplines for every clan. Could be worth a shot, but only if they are really expensive and start with no dots, unless they are clan disciplines. On the other hand, it makes clans that have two of them extremely boring.

Zer0Morph wrote:
I think I'll just keep it the same and modify my own personal game when I see fit. Let the community have what they want. Zer0 loses out again... Crying or Very sad   LOL
Or do it the way you want and include the recipe for the change in the manual. scratch

And I agree with your previous post. Making the choice after the embrace would be very unprofessional.
Of course there is the option of making additional clans that can only be accessed through the description part, not with the pulldown menu. I know, not professional... Cool

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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:33 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
And I agree with your previous post. Making the choice after the embrace would be very unprofessional.
Of course there is the option of making additional clans that can only be accessed through the description part, not with the pulldown menu. I know, not professional... Cool

I'm glad we see eye to eye on the professional part. I know Troika had a ton of awesome ideas, including the histories and stuff, but they pulled it because it wasn't polished and professional by the release date. I would rather not have something in the game then do it half assed. If it's not ready, it simply doesn't get published.

This was one thing Burgermeister and I disagreed on. He had no problems releasing NPCs without the lip movements and spoken dialogue. They would just stand there while you read it. It didn't bother him, and that's fine, but it bugged the hell out of me.

As far as putting it my way then having to write a manual for everyone to change it back -OR- simply keep it as is and have me (only 1 person, who knows how) to change it. Well, the choice is obvious here. I'll keep it the same.
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:44 pm

What you can do is, put copies of different clandoc files in the extras folder. Then people have the choice without it looking unfinished ingame.

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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:53 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
What you can do is, put copies of different clandoc files in the extras folder. Then people have the choice without it looking unfinished ingame.

That's a great idea, except that I wanted to re-write the Attributes/Abilities descriptions reflecting the change too, so they'd have to move 2 files. I like where your heads at though.
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PostSubject: Re: Clan Change - Warriors of Set   Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:40 pm

I finally got Malkav to agree to let me change the Followers of Set to Warriors of Set and Assamite Viziers to Assamite Warriors. So we would have...

Warriors of Set
Serpentis
Potence
Presence

Assamite (Warrior Caste)
Quietus
Obfuscate
Celerity

Can we PRETTY PRETTY please do this for TFN 1.4?!?!?! PRETTY PLEASE WITH SUGAR ON TOP?

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