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 Obeah and Salubri overhaul

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neonedrid
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PostSubject: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:30 pm

Current realization is good enough, but maybe break Discipline down to tiers? Or turn Golconda into permanent bonus to stats, just make it more difficult to achieve?
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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:33 pm

Break the discipline down into tiers? As in a Targeted discipline instead of a Passive discipline? What bonuses would they get?
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neonedrid
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:38 pm

I am not sure, maybe change some gameplay effects. I know good effects are difficult to code. You see, I just restarted Salubri playthrough and while I get the immersion feeling that I am Salubri, I don't get this feeling with Obeah. It feels just like, you know, aura with vision and bonuses to stats.

.....or maybe it's just me
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:46 pm

I'm open to this idea if we can come up with something better than what we have. We can change anything we want, YAY! Smile Let me know what you come up with.
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neonedrid
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:18 pm

Some thoughts:
 

-Golconda
1.a Could be achievable state at some point of the plot if Humanity is 10.
You get some kind of significant bonus to Frenzy.
1.b it is 5 level of Discipline, but it's like costing no blood and triggered always active as long as your Humanity is alright.
2. You must find out about it first (because lore-wise it's a special path)
3. You can lose this state if you drop your Humanity to some level ( below 7 or maybe you lose if you just drop it.

Humanity drops if you are saint and you did something bad Already implemented in 1.3

-Obeah
It doesn't grant additional healing, because Salubri already gets Higher regeneration rate as merit (maybe make "pure" regen rate lower, but increase Blood Heal for them?

4th or 5th tier is "Safe Passage" - nobody shall notice and attack you if you haven't been already discovered for short time with long enough cooldown. Too dad, it's 7th tier of Obeah in tabletop. Well, they are almost all 8yh generation anyway.

What do you think?
I know, it can be hard to make.
Maybe make Golconda like some kind of token? item in inventory, like with "Heart of Darkness", but invisible and unaccessible for player?
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:42 pm

I'll absorb your information into my brain and stew about it for a bit, then use your ideas and blend them with mine to see if I can come up with something.... better.
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Dragatus
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:51 am

Leave my Salubri alone! Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:54 am

Ahem. What I meant to say is that I am against incorporating golconda into the game. Golconda is a mythical state that may or may not exist and is incredibly difficult to achieve. In the Vampire lore there are kindred who've been trying to do it for centuries and still had no success. For some fledgeling to reach it in a matter of weeks would be beyond ridiculous. I dare you to ask Claudia for details. Wink

In my opinion Obeah is fine as is. When I activate it I feel like a dark crusader, sent by Heaven to scourge the Earth of evil.

The only thing that's a little off about the Salubri is that their signature dsicipline acts like Valeren when activated and like Obeah when used in dialogue.
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kyoden
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:49 am

I agree as well. With Golconda you are supposed to never feed again, walk the sun, blabla. That kind of mythical powers. I'm not certain if I know of any vampire in the wod lore that actually achieved golconda (with stats not storywise). Again a Sub-Zer0 move, if you know what I mean Razz

And certainly. The Salubri we see here is more a Salubri Antitribu. Antitribu are more the Warriors while normal Salubri are more the healers. Its like warrior setites and normal Followers of Seth. They have different functions and roles.

Just checked the char creation screen. The whole clan description screems "healer salubri" (btw warrior salubri - antritribu salubri rapidly grow in numbers). The discipline does reflect a combat oriented approach.

Anasthetic touch could be a touch based attack that lets the target cower in fear (closest to getting sleepy etc).

While rereading the whole obeah description (I usually prefer other clans ... shame on me) You certainly haven't achieved Golconda.

Maybe if we want to, we can look into a complete discipline revision. Yes, the salubri probably won't be a combat monkey, but he shouldn't be anyways. Like a malkavian it should be a complete new playthrough.

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Obeah

We can also look at alternative powers to choose from. I find it intriguing to give this clan a better feedbacl in the world.

Edit: As I haven't played a salubri yet ... is there some special interaction with Strauss?
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Feral
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:02 am

Dragatus wrote:
Ahem. What I meant to say is that I am against incorporating golconda into the game. Golconda is a mythical state that may or may not exist and is incredibly difficult to achieve. In the Vampire lore there are kindred who've been trying to do it for centuries and still had no success. For some fledgeling to reach it in a matter of weeks would be beyond ridiculous. I dare you to ask Claudia for details. Wink


Basically what I was about to write.
Golconda is a no-no. Unless we do VtM Elder Edition, of course.
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MxM
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:29 am

kyoden wrote:

Edit: As I haven't played a salubri yet ... is there some special interaction with Strauss?
Not with Strauss but with other NPCs through Obeah use Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:32 am

There were times where Tremere killed Salubri "on sight".
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:49 am

kyoden wrote:
There were times where Tremere killed Salubri "on sight".
Yes, but it will the game way too short (you are decapitated after your sire lol! )
I'm inclined to think Strauss doesn't identify you as one... or he wants to use you then kill you Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:57 am

Yeah, the reason why I didn't make special dialogue for Strauss and the Salubri was because if Strauss knew you were a Salubri, why wouldn't he tell LaCroix and have you beheaded immediately. It's in the best interest for the Salubri to keep quiet about their powers of Obeah and quietly heal those in need. At least, that was my reasoning for not incorporating more dialogue with Strauss.

On the other hand, I would like to setup special dialogue with Silvia and the Salubri character only, being that she works for one.

Lastly, I've read what you guys are saying about Golconda and it makes sense. I also read about how TFN's Salubri acts more like a Salubri Antitribu w/ Valeren instead of a traditional Salubri with Obeah. I already made the Valeren discipline logo years ago and you're making me wonder if a slight clan correction and discipline correction is needed.

Let's discuss...
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Eliza
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:17 pm

kyoden wrote:
There were times where Tremere killed Salubri "on sight".

They are still killed on sight, as the Tremere propaganda was very efficient and everybody sees the Salubri as basically the same level of depraved that the Baali reside on ... if they even know of them at all, as most modern Kindred (aka ~500 years and younger at least clown ) shouldn't have heard the name. Same goes for the Baali, though.

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kyoden
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:09 am

I heard my sire was an "upstanding member of this community" before he was beheaded for embracing me ...

So, as what did he pose? Should that posing be relevant or change how certain NPCs react to me?
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:22 am

Dragatus wrote:
Leave my Salubri alone! Evil or Very Mad

Aww you kind blood thief you~ =w=
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Cretino
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:30 am

kyoden wrote:
I heard my sire was an "upstanding member of this community" before he was beheaded for embracing me ...

So, as what did he pose? Should that posing be relevant or change how certain NPCs react to me?
Vanilla never mentioned anything about our sire. The only thing I could notice (vanilla) is that the sire model's is wearing a body armor equivalent of 3 (4 is given by Heather)... I guess he was strong.
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:06 pm

In his intro monologue in the theater LaCroix describes your sire as an upstanding member of the community.

Anyway, regarding the Salubri, here's the thing about warriors and healers. If we do it by the book only a healer would be able to heal people in dialogue, but then the discipline would need to be revamped. However, Valeren works better for the game and is in it's current incarnation pretty kick ass.

So in this specific case I advocate turning a blind eye to the lore and leaving things as they are. Because if we don't we'd have to either revamp a perfectly good discipline (and somehow turn it from a passive into an active one) or remove the Salubri's unique dialogue interaction. And both of those options suck.
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PostSubject: Re: Obeah and Salubri overhaul   Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:07 pm

SaulottheGentle wrote:
Dragatus wrote:
Leave my Salubri alone! Evil or Very Mad

Aww you kind blood thief you~ =w=

You're welcome, Soulsucker.
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