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 Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4

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Cretino
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:11 am

Yeah, that little P&P stuff can wait, right. Changing passwords so people "can't cheat" is a must do asap, but polishing the new system you're creating...
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YamiRaziel
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:14 am

I don't get what's with "so people can't cheat". To hell with people, I say. If they want to cheat, let them cheat. If they want to use the console, let them use the console. It's up to YOU whether you'll be cheating or not. That's all that matters.

While it's cool to have random locations of items, random password etc, etc, I don't think that this is a top priority modification. As far as I've noticed only kids cheat in games anyway!
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Cretino
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:39 am

Just to make sure you didn't read me wrong-
He changed passwords from many computers because we could use the internet to find the passwords and not use the hacking feat. What I meant is that he's creating a new Inspection system, and I want him to place as a priority the randomization of the item location, so people don't cheat this as well.

Because, even WITHOUT internet, the second time you play the game, it will be the same thing; the password will be the same, and the item will be on the same place. You don't need the hacking feat anymore, and you don't need to actually search for the item because it will be there for you.
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:25 am

You do realize that there's a document in the game folders with all the computer passwords which you can access at any time? So you can 'cheat' on hacking in your first playthrough aswell, even though I would rather just raise the hacking feat via console than complicatedly alt-tab every time there's a computer... just saying. Wink

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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:30 am

You're right about the password, but not about the item. It is only there if your inspection is high enough.
Of course the item is always on the map, but hidden.

@Zer0: I still think that items appearing and disappearing with auspex starting and ending is messy.
You can have it appear when auspex is activated, but once the player has seen the item, it should stay where it is until picked up.
Imo it would be stupid if the player activates auspex, sees an item, walks up to it, and right before he can pick it up auspex ends, and *boom* the item is gone. I'd see that as a lousy, unprofessional trick. Or do you have Ravnos arround? Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:56 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:
You're right about the password, but not about the item. It is only there if your inspection is high enough.
Of course the item is always on the map, but hidden.

@Zer0: I still think that items appearing and disappearing with auspex starting and ending is messy.
You can have it appear when auspex is activated, but once the player has seen the item, it should stay where it is until picked up.
Imo it would be stupid if the player activates auspex, sees an item, walks up to it, and right before he can pick it up auspex ends, and *boom* the item is gone. I'd see that as a lousy, unprofessional trick. Or do you have Ravnos arround? Razz

There is a merit to that suggestion.
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YamiRaziel
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:35 pm

Cretino wrote:
Just to make sure you didn't read me wrong-
He changed passwords from many computers because we could use the internet to find the passwords and not use the hacking feat. What I meant is that he's creating a new Inspection system, and I want him to place as a priority the randomization of the item location, so people don't cheat this as well.

Because, even WITHOUT internet, the second time you play the game, it will be the same thing; the password will be the same, and the item will be on the same place. You don't need the hacking feat anymore, and you don't need to actually search for the item because it will be there for you.

Yes, I do read you correctly, I just don't get your obsession with cheating.
All you need to do is not cheat. That's it. Roleplay for Christ's sake. If you know the password, but your character doesn't, then don't use it. It's that simple. Pretend you don't know it as well.
Why should Zer0 invest such a huge portion of time into this, instead of modding something that's actually worth it?
If you can't stop yourself from cheating, no matter what we do, we won't be able to prevent that.
And as I said in my previous post "To hell with people".  What do you care if people cheat or not? It's none of your or our business, anyway. It's their choice, not ours.
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Dragatus
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:54 pm

As far as I'm concerned people can play their single-player games however they want as long as I'm given the same courtesy.

Cheating is dumb, but as long as you're not doing it in multiplayer it's your own problem if you do it.
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:42 pm

YamiRaziel wrote:
Why should Zer0 invest such a huge portion of time into this, instead of modding something that's actually worth it?

I'm voting this for the quote of the week! ^^ I couldn't had said it better.

First off, if you want to cheat, you can do it via console or just open the terminal text files in the game and view the password that way. I'm not going to invest lots of time randomizing passwords and item locations when a person can circumvent that so easily. Not to mention people have complained when I setup Jack making you start over in the tutorial if you buff your stats. People have actually said to me, "I can't believe your preventing me from cheating, that's BS and not fair, it's my game, I should be able to do what I want with it!!!" And they have a point, don't they?

As far as items disappearing again after deactivating Auspex, that certainly is something I can change. Here's the thing with that though. Let's pretend someone walks into the Chinatown hub. They have Auspex 5 which gives you a +4 to Inspection. They get out of the cab, pop Auspex and then immediately turn it off. Now everything in the map is unhidden and ready for pick up. I don't know but that seems even worse than making the items re-disappear. I'd prefer the player has to actually walk around with Auspex turned on to see the items, which is why I recolored it and turned down the maintain sound on it, so it wouldn't be annoying to have it on.

Lastly, I specifically gave Auspex an extended timer because of how weak it was as a discipline, I did this in CE 1.2. I want to keep it extended so that you can have it on all the time without spending too much blood. There is even an occult item now that can be found in the Santa Monica hub or purchased from Ox that boosts the duration of Auspex by 25%.

Thoughts on this anyone?
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Dragatus
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:59 pm

I think what people meant was that items would stay visible if you as the player actually had line of sight to them.
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Feral
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:18 pm

Dragatus wrote:
I think what people meant was that items would stay visible if you as the player actually had line of sight to them.

True, but how to code it? The game doesn't mind, it treats the whole map as one entity...
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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:28 pm

Dragatus wrote:
I think what people meant was that items would stay visible if you as the player actually had line of sight to them.

I don't think that's possible, unless we do a check that you have to be within a certain distance of the object in order for it to start unhidden, that would be a chore and one I wouldn't look forward to setting up.
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malak
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:44 pm

From a lore perspective, I would rather them reveal and stay revealed.

Pen and Paper VtM, Heightened Senses (auspex 1) does not require any vitae expenditure, unless I horribly misremember my rules. So any vampire with the discipline WOULD typically see more, and just walking around would occasionally activate it. Many would only deactivate it (for sight/hearing at least) when around bright lights or loud noises, where it is distracting, similar to shielding your eyes.

Coming from a VtM background, it makes sense that the items would reveal the instant you activate Auspex, and then stay visible to that cainite forever.

#Giving-Zer0-an-excuse-to-be-lazy-here-and-go-code-something-more-important!


Last edited by malak on Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:46 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:32 am

I understand what you're saying Malak, the problem is that we're limited in its function. Revealing an item that you're actively looking at then making it stay visible sounds great to me, unfortunately we can't do that. Only ALL items on the map can be revealed and stay revealed or none of them. So if you walk into the LA Hub and pop Auspex, items on the other side of the map would be revealed and stay revealed too. Sad

Tonight I spent hours and hours coding the new Presence system which I'll explain tomorrow (I need sleep). In doing so, I decided to rebalance Presence so I reduced its duration, then I started thinking about Auspex and how Auspex is now a little overpowered given it's new ability to reveal items. So I made the decision to reduce its duration as well. Don't worry, Auspex still has the longest duration of any discipline in the game, but I didn't feel right letting Auspex 5 last 240 seconds + the new Auspex duration occult item you can buy/find. That seemed like too much power.

Anyways, I'll explain more on Presence tomorrow, gnite kindred! I love you
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:47 am

You can write a script that on activating auspex unhides all items in a certain radius around the player. This is not perfect, but I think it's better than having items vanish in front of your eyes.

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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:08 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:
You can write a script that on activating auspex unhides all items in a certain radius around the player. This is not perfect, but I think it's better than having items vanish in front of your eyes.

Malkav speaks sense! I am for it!
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:59 am

auspex activation

for each item in certain distance
{
if(perception+allertness=>item detection requirement)
{
visibility=1
}
}


?

Do note I have no idea how coding works for the modding in VtM:B. I just know a little bit of coding in C# and PhP.
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:38 pm

How many people are going to turn on Auspex, see an item appear that they couldn't see previously, and think "Cool, there's an item I can grab, but I'll come back later and grab it another time."

I would think any sensible person would grab the item and go about their merry way. The only time I see this being a problem is if the person is very very low on blood with 5 seconds left on their Auspex timer and couldn't get to the item in time for whatever reason and can't spare the 1 blood to activate Auspex again to grab it. In that case they would need to get more blood and come back for the item at a later time.

How often would that scenario happen? Almost never...
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kyoden
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:18 pm

Weapons basicly. Maybe I have that weapon already. So, I will go back to a shop sell it and return ... and its hidden again.
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:24 pm

Okay, well if Malkav wants to write the script to only keep items within a radius of the player visible, then I'll implement it.
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kyoden
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:31 pm

One thing. While watching your presentation of the inspection system, some items literally dropped infront of you. Was this intended? I would be thinking that the item is on rest. Was it placed abit too high?
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:48 pm

kyoden wrote:
One thing. While watching your presentation of the inspection system, some items literally dropped infront of you. Was this intended? I would be thinking that the item is on rest. Was it placed abit too high?

Well, when you've dealt with placing items, people, things on the maps as long as I have, you know to never place them too close to the ground or they could get stuck in the floor. You always want to place them above the surface a little to prevent collision issues. It's odd but you can place them perfect on the surface only to load the map and randomly have it stuck while other times it's placed perfectly, so now I always give it a little room.
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Cretino
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:27 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
kyoden wrote:
One thing. While watching your presentation of the inspection system, some items literally dropped infront of you. Was this intended? I would be thinking that the item is on rest. Was it placed abit too high?

Well, when you've dealt with placing items, people, things on the maps as long as I have, you know to never place them too close to the ground or they could get stuck in the floor. You always want to place them above the surface a little to prevent collision issues. It's odd but you can place them perfect on the surface only to load the map and randomly have it stuck while other times it's placed perfectly, so now I always give it a little room.

Yeah, hitboxes are messy.
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:56 pm

Cretino wrote:
Yeah, hitboxes are messy.

Indeed-a-roo! Smile
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