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 Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4

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Cretino
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:36 am

lol is that possible?
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:42 am

Answers
1.) The level of an item (or monies) Inspection level required to see it is determined by the value of the item (or money). So let's say you have a crappy gold ring worth $20 or whatever. Inspection 2 or 3 will be required to see it. A knife would be around 3-4 while a shotgun would be around 5-6. $150 wad of money would be around 7 and a new set of armor would be 9. Finding something super awesome like an occult item (which most occult items are worth around $500-$700) would require an Inspection level of 10.

So when you break into Dennis' beach house, the stereo would require an Inspection of 3 to see, I think. And the same rules apply throughout the game. Quest items like Murietta's key would require a 5 to see (or 5 Lockpick if you want to go that route).

2.) In the case with Pisha's items and Bertram's CD. Here's my justification and thought process on why I have it the way I have it. The fetish in the museum could be lowered after reading the email, I could do something like that and understand what you guys mean about knowing approximately where it is should reduce the amount of Inspection needed to find it. Good call!

But in the case with the other fetish and Bertram's CD. Let's take a look at Hacking where you can gain up to 17 XP for hacking every bank account in the game. I'd like to think Inspection has the same kind of thing, you can only complete those quests and get the XP if you invested in Inspection. The only way to get those 17 XP is if you invested in Hacking, so why not do the same for Inspection. Lockpicking doesn't give you any XP, however almost all of the items you lockpick don't reduce your humanity like hacking does because they aren't owned by innocent kine.

So let's look at the balance between these 3 feats.
Lockpicking - Lots of items/money, no XP, no humanity loss
Hacking - Lots of money, 17 XP, lots of humanity loss
Inspection - Lots of items/money (but not as much as Lockpicking), a little XP (about half as much as Hacking), no humanity loss
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:06 pm

My problem with this Zer0 is that I am one of those players that hate an unfinished quest in their log. While I understand that you want a benefit only for Inspection, I would feel obligated to play Inspection in order to complete my quests.

So that being said, can you turn the entire quests into Inspection quests? If the only thing I need to do is have inspection and find an item, well that's clearly a skill/profession/whatever quest. Can you make the player not being able to receive the quest at all if he doesn't meet an inspection criteria?

For example, if I need inspection of 9 to find that CD, is it possible that the game checks my inspection before giving me the quest at all? If I have 7, then I'm clearly leveling it up and I'll probably get it/boost it at some point. If my inspection is 1/2/3, then who knows, maybe I'm role-playing a blind vampire and I don't plan on leveling it up at all. Then I don't need to receive that quest at all and it won't annoy me.
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:20 pm

TFN Inspection System & Auspex (1.4) (Click on video to watch from YouTube)
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:22 pm

YamiRaziel wrote:
For example, if I need inspection of 9 to find that CD, is it possible that the game checks my inspection before giving me the quest at all? If I have 7, then I'm clearly leveling it up and I'll probably get it/boost it at some point. If my inspection is 1/2/3, then who knows, maybe I'm role-playing a blind vampire and I don't plan on leveling it up at all. Then I don't need to receive that quest at all and it won't annoy me.

Yeah sure, I could do that. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:27 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
YamiRaziel wrote:
For example, if I need inspection of 9 to find that CD, is it possible that the game checks my inspection before giving me the quest at all? If I have 7, then I'm clearly leveling it up and I'll probably get it/boost it at some point. If my inspection is 1/2/3, then who knows, maybe I'm role-playing a blind vampire and I don't plan on leveling it up at all. Then I don't need to receive that quest at all and it won't annoy me.

Yeah sure, I could do that. Smile

That would be such a godsend for a persnickety player like me. I hate having open quests sit in my log, especially the serial killer questline that takes you through all four hubs - it's so accusing, sitting in my quest log like that, mocking me because I can't finish it until the end of the game ... or perhaps that's just the Malkavian I recently played talking, who knows. What a Face

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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:30 pm

Eliza wrote:
That would be such a godsend for a persnickety player like me. I hate having open quests sit in my log, especially the serial killer questline that takes you through all four hubs - it's so accusing, sitting in my quest log like that, mocking me because I can't finish it until the end of the game ... or perhaps that's just the Malkavian I recently played talking, who knows. What a Face

No problem guys, I'll get it all setup so you don't even get the quest unless your Inspection meets the requirement. Of course I already know what I'm going to hear...

"ZER0! ZER0! Why did you take Pisha and Bertram's quest out of the game, you suck, I hate you forever!!!" Evil or Very Mad

Speaking of quests that run through all 4 hubs, you'll love the new Giovanni/Silvia quest then, HAHAHAHA! Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:39 pm

That's pretty sweet. I love how you're further balancing the game.

That's why I love the TCI mods... you just make it even more re-playable.

Offtopic:

I checked an Antitribu video today... They are so proud of making the game "difficult" that you're basically forced to use companion mod (which for example I don't like at all). Forcing certain choices is not making a game difficult, it's just dumb game design (in this case mod).

It's sad really, considering all the potential they've shown with new models, mechanics and disciplines. They've released such a buggy mess of a mod, that it will take longer to fix than Bloodlines itself.

Edit: Well it really depends Zer0. A Pisha quest looks important to me so maybe you shouldn't consider it a skill quest (thus making it require a skill to complete).

Skill quests are quest that would not further the story, but can make players benefit by being good at something.
Now, I don't remember the Pisha quest very well, but if she tells you where to look for the item, then I don't think you should ask us to have high inspection. Just make it easier to find for those that have raised this skill.
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:51 pm

YamiRaziel wrote:
Skill quests are quest that would not further the story, but can make players benefit by being good at something.
Now, I don't remember the Pisha quest very well, but if she tells you where to look for the item, then I don't think you should ask us to have high inspection. Just make it easier to find for those that have raised this skill.

Well, Pisha simply tells you the location of the items she's looking for - the museum and the Giovanni mansion - but she doesn't tell you where to look exactly, so it would make sense that you'd need Inspection to find the stuff, especially since you're working on a tight deadline - you can't just dally around in both situations.

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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:59 pm

Eliza wrote:

That would be such a godsend for a persnickety player like me. I hate having open quests sit in my log, especially the serial killer questline that takes you through all four hubs - it's so accusing, sitting in my quest log like that, mocking me because I can't finish it until the end of the game ... or perhaps that's just the Malkavian I recently played talking, who knows. What a Face

I'm the opposite here, I love having those long quests sitting there, telling me that the entire world is still happening, not just the main quest with a few hour-long side attractions.
Now, short quests that remain open do irritate me, as well, but we need more story-arcs in this game.
Looking forward to the Giovanni quest.
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:03 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Eliza wrote:
That would be such a godsend for a persnickety player like me. I hate having open quests sit in my log, especially the serial killer questline that takes you through all four hubs - it's so accusing, sitting in my quest log like that, mocking me because I can't finish it until the end of the game ... or perhaps that's just the Malkavian I recently played talking, who knows. What a Face

No problem guys, I'll get it all setup so you don't even get the quest unless your Inspection meets the requirement. Of course I already know what I'm going to hear...

"ZER0! ZER0! Why did you take Pisha and Bertram's quest out of the game, you suck, I hate you forever!!!" Evil or Very Mad

Speaking of quests that run through all 4 hubs, you'll love the new Giovanni/Silvia quest then, HAHAHAHA! Razz
How will it check your Auspex level? I mean if I have Auspex level 5 and 2 of Inspection will I get quest that requires 6 of inspection?
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:11 pm

YamiRaziel wrote:
I checked an Antitribu video today... They are so proud of making the game "difficult" that you're basically forced to use companion mod (which for example I don't like at all). Forcing certain choices is not making a game difficult, it's just dumb game design (in this case mod).

Yeah, I've pretty much summed it up. The Final Nights = Deus Ex while the Antitribu Mod = Call of Duty. I can't really explain much better than that. Both have their place in the community, but target different fan types. I also agree that Antitribu isn't finished and shouldn't had been released yet, but they did, and their fans love it so.... looks like it all worked out. Smile

YamiRaziel wrote:
Skill quests are quest that would not further the story, but can make players benefit by being good at something.
Now, I don't remember the Pisha quest very well, but if she tells you where to look for the item, then I don't think you should ask us to have high inspection. Just make it easier to find for those that have raised this skill.

The reason I chose those quests to make Inspection dependent is because those are hide and seek quests. So to me, it makes sense that you would need a higher Inspection to find those items, especially down in the Nossie haven (Warrens 5) where all sorts of things are hidden.

I was thinking about what you said and then I saw Eliza and MxM post and they both had their own stance on this subject. No matter what I do, it's going to make some people happy while others upset, I've learned that while modding. In the end, I just have to go with what I think is best overall.

I'll probably leave Pisha and Bertram's items hidden for now, and I don't mind only allowing the quest to be taken if you have a high enough Inspection, but I don't like the fact that someone who hasn't played before may never know that those quests were ever available in the first place, unless they have a high enough Inspection. I like the idea of letting players know there's more out there, you just need to play the game a different way to access it. This puts an emphasis on replayability.
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:14 pm

MxM wrote:
How will it check your Auspex level? I mean if I have Auspex level 5 and 2 of Inspection will I get quest that requires 6 of inspection?

Read my previous post, I hesitate to set up the quests this way because new players will never know they existed and that bothers me. I prefer the player know that it exists, but can't do it until their next play through. Replayability.

If I end up hiding the quest, then yes I would calculate Inspection + Auspex = determines if the quest line appears.
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:26 pm

Maybe receive an email that if you feel like a treasure hunter, you should visit her? The bottom of the email might state that in order to accept this quest you need an inspection of level 6 at least. Something like that?
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:30 pm

YamiRaziel wrote:
I checked an Antitribu video today... They are so proud of making the game "difficult" that you're basically forced to use companion mod (which for example I don't like at all). Forcing certain choices is not making a game difficult, it's just dumb game design (in this case mod).

Yeah, I downloaded and read the install instructions
Mv wrote:
Antitribu MOD already contains Companion Mod completely
.
And this is where I stop. Nothing against Dheu, he did a good job with his mod, but it takes the game in the exact opposite direction I want to play. Difference in personal taste, here.
Well, poop. I guess I'll try out DARK then.
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:38 pm

Just look at where video games are headed. As technology increases, human society gets dumber and dumber. Nobody wants to think anymore, in fact many young people "Can't" think even if they wanted too. They're so used to technology thinking for them. This is why games like Call of Duty are on the rise and games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights 1 are in decline.

It was only a matter of time that someone would turn Bloodlines into a FPS Hack n' Slash, otherwise known as VtM Bloodlines: Call of Duty edition. It's what the younger generation wants and as they get older, eventually, it's what everyone will want.

We are on the decline ladies and gentlemen. And if Arthur and Marvin (RavaFX) create a new IP Vampire game using Unity, do you think it will be like Troika's 2004 Bloodlines? HAHA, not even close! It's going to be a Vampire FPS Battlefield style game. Sad.... but true.



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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:42 pm

you mean like this?

sidenote: I miss the old Zer0 avatar. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:46 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Just look at where video games are headed. As technology increases, human society gets dumber and dumber. Nobody wants to think anymore, in fact many young people "Can't" think even if they wanted too. They're so used to technology thinking for them. This is why games like Call of Duty are on the rise and games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights 1 are in decline.

It was only a matter of time that someone would turn Bloodlines into a FPS Hack n' Slash, otherwise known as VtM Bloodlines: Call of Duty edition. It's what the younger generation wants and as they get older, eventually, it's what everyone will want.

We are on the decline ladies and gentlemen. And if Arthur and Marvin (RavaFX) create a new IP Vampire game using Unity, do you think it will be like Troika's 2004 Bloodlines? HAHA, not even close! It's going to be a Vampire FPS Battlefield style game. Sad.... but true.



/

Nah, Zer0. I don't think that's true. It's only natural that older generations blame the younger ones for failing to live up to certain expectations, but that doesn't necessarily make it bad. People are just different.
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:52 pm

malak wrote:
you mean like this?

sidenote: I miss the old Zer0 avatar. Sad

Just like that, yeah. Sad

Sorry, I've been starring at that avatar for years, just wanted something new for awhile.

YamiRaziel wrote:
People are just different.

Well, I can agree with that last part at least, LOL. Sorry Yami, I have to respectfully disagree.
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:27 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
MxM wrote:
How will it check your Auspex level? I mean if I have Auspex level 5 and 2 of Inspection will I get quest that requires 6 of inspection?

Read my previous post, I hesitate to set up the quests this way because new players will never know they existed and that bothers me. I prefer the player know that it exists, but can't do it until their next play through. Replayability.

I was a new player when I cheated on my second try of the game... with everything maxed, I was in awe with the stuff I missed! The (P)(S)(I) lines, the items I simply blind to see, the enemies I could beat easily... so yeah, it's all about playstyle.

By the end of the day, we should make a Final Nights Wikia :p
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:34 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Just look at where video games are headed. As technology increases, human society gets dumber and dumber. Nobody wants to think anymore, in fact many young people "Can't" think even if they wanted too. They're so used to technology thinking for them. This is why games like Call of Duty are on the rise and games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights 1 are in decline.

It was only a matter of time that someone would turn Bloodlines into a FPS Hack n' Slash, otherwise known as VtM Bloodlines: Call of Duty edition. It's what the younger generation wants and as they get older, eventually, it's what everyone will want.

We are on the decline ladies and gentlemen. And if Arthur and Marvin (RavaFX) create a new IP Vampire game using Unity, do you think it will be like Troika's 2004 Bloodlines? HAHA, not even close! It's going to be a Vampire FPS Battlefield style game. Sad.... but true.






Sorry, couldn't resist. lol! (As somebody of the generation you complain about, I guess I'm allowed a rebuttal... :p)

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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:02 pm

Cretino wrote:


By the end of the day, we should make a Final Nights Wikia :p

It is not a dumb idea you know. To think of it...
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:39 pm

Feral wrote:
Cretino wrote:


By the end of the day, we should make a Final Nights Wikia :p

It is not a dumb idea you know. To think of it...
^^ Ditto Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:06 pm

And another thread derailed Very Happy

What did you decide on with the inspection quests, Zer0?
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PostSubject: Re: Inspection system and a new Auspex for 1.4   Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:22 pm

MxM wrote:
Feral wrote:
Cretino wrote:


By the end of the day, we should make a Final Nights Wikia :p

It is not a dumb idea you know. To think of it...
^^ Ditto Very Happy

Hmm, I think those are free. And I can't see any legal issues. Worth pursuing.
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