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Griff
Ancillae
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PostSubject: Backtracking   Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:43 am

I know that you've added hackable bank accounts and pickable chests to a lot of areas, and it's a wonderful addition. The problem is, many of these areas cannot be returned to after the first visit.

One particularly egregious example is the difficulty 9 or 10 bank account in the santa monica beach house. It's literally impossible to have a hacking feat that high while you're there, and finishing that quest is mandatory to progress. After you leave, you'll find that the fence gate leading to it is locked and impossible to pick.

Edit: As you guys have noted, there are more places like the Museum and Giovanni mansion, but only these two really matter due to how early you visit them:

  • Santa Monica Beach House
  • Gimble's Studio


Anyway, I hope this was helpful. I'm loving this mod by the way.


Last edited by Griff on Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:23 am; edited 3 times in total
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Cretino
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:35 am

Santa monica beach house is always accessible, not? It should be, I remember going back there and picking Mercurio's money when I forgot to pick it... but that was soon enough, not late game.

Please, take notes of every place thats innacessible after visiting once so zer0 can balance things out.
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Griff
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:53 am

I just finished the quest on a new character, and the gate was locked five minutes later when I went to report to E about Lily. I'd be happy to take note of every instance of this on my current playthrough and report back.
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kyoden
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:27 am

I absolutely agree to that. Especially as there is no reason not to get back to.
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Cretino
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:37 am

Yeah, because we are planning on creating the the finalnights.wikia so this piece of information is gud, and time is important Wink
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:16 pm

The beachhouse is closed once you leave the pier map with the astrolite. And no mater what, when the guys get aggro, the computer is turned off. So you must hack before you attack. Or keep it friendly, or sneak kill them.

Another place you can't go back is the museum.
And Giovanni mansion, if there is something to loot.

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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:08 pm

My apologies, I didn't realize the gate to the beach house locks, I thought it was always open so you could go back. Right now the hacking level required is 8. So now we have a dilemma. Another issue is that in 1.4 there will be cash available to "Inspect" at a level of 7, and the Lockpicking level is also 7.

Potential solutions...
1.) Keep the gate to the Beachhouse unlocked at all times so the player can return. And keep the computer turned on as well.
2.) Reduce the hacking level required to steal the money, of course then I would have to rebalance it with other computers.


I'm thinking solution 1 is the best because not only would the player miss out on hacking the bank account, but also lockpicking and the hidden money in 1.4. I say we just keep the gate unlocked and the computer turned on at all times. Or we could lock the gate but make it pickable at a low level. Like level 2 or 3.
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:13 pm

I thought Gimble's studio was always unlocked. Is it not?

The museum requires a hacking of 8 to steal Pam King's money and there isn't a safe to lockpick. The Giovanni mansion is so late in the game that the player should have everything they need if they decided to specialize.
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Griff
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:19 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
I thought Gimble's studio was always unlocked. Is it not?

The museum requires a hacking of 8 to steal Pam King's money and there isn't a safe to lockpick. The Giovanni mansion is so late in the game that the player should have everything they need if they decided to specialize.

Nope, Gimble's studio locks the moment you leave unfortunately.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:25 pm

For the beachhouse I think leaving it open is the best solution. It must be unpickable if you go to the beach before you talk to Mercurio.

Gimble's is always closed, except for the one time you get in to recue Carson. But that should be easy to change.

Ok, one computer in the museum is no big deal. And you're right about Giovanni.

Edit: What about Bishop Vic? Anything to steal there? It's also locked after he is finished.

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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:29 pm

Griff wrote:
Nope, Gimble's studio locks the moment you leave unfortunately.

Okay thanks for letting me know. I found the code that locks the beachhouse gate and Gimble's basement studio. It would be very easy to prevent them from being locked. Would that fix this issue?
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:33 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
For the beachhouse I think leaving it open is the best solution. It must be unpickable if you go to the beach before you talk to Mercurio.

Yeah, it will be locked by default and only unlocks after you get the quest from Mercurio, I just changed it so it doesn't lock after you complete the quest. I did this for Gimble's as well.

There isn't anything to steal, hack, or pick in the crackhouse. I mean... it's a crackhouse right? tongue
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Cretino
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:38 pm

And here I had planned on coming back on these locations later on... damn.
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:39 pm

Cretino wrote:
And here I had planned on coming back on these locations later on... damn.

So did I, I thought they remained open. Well, they will in 1.4. Smile
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YamiRaziel
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:56 pm

I'm not sure about the "let's keep them open" policy of all special locations.

It kinda disrupts balance more than creating it if you ask me.

So basically, what you're saying is that I can invest in social skills and disciplines early on, as I don't need that much money before Hollywood anyway. I'll be dominating the entire game and when I finally start suffering due to lack of money, I'll go back to Santa Monica and Downtown and I'll collect the loot of all special locations?

That kinda destroys the mood. Not everything is supposed to be always looted and now basically you're forcing me to pick one of the four paths (inspection, hacking, haggle, lock-picking) or I won't be able to find anything on my own.

Plus did you also make the money in beach houses require inspection? If you did, I don't think you should've, as you already know the money is there and you're actively looking about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:20 pm

YamiRaziel wrote:
Plus did you also make the money in beach houses require inspection? If you did, I don't think you should've, as you already know the money is there and you're actively looking about it.

I didn't hide Mercurio's money, I left that alone. This is new money I placed in the house requiring Inspection of 7. It will be new in TFN 1.4 and you won't know where it is yet.

YamiRaziel wrote:
I'm not sure about the "let's keep them open" policy of all special locations.

It wouldn't be all locations, it would just be the beachhouse and Gimble's basement. I don't think it will be an issue anywhere else.
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:15 am

Good news and bad news.

Good news - I made it so the beachhouse and Gimble's basement don't lock after quest completion. Smile

Bad news - When you return to the beachhouse, any broken window shows a HUGE broken window panel that takes up half the house. It's a huge graphical glitch that only happens after you break a window, leave the map, then come back. That's probably why Troika locked it because they didn't want you returning to see that.

So, I'll see if I can track the windows down, all the windows in the house, and make them disappear or something after quest completion, so it doesn't look terrible when you return.

With Bloodlines, there's always something... Grrr.... No
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:06 am

Alright guys!

After about 2 hours of researching breakable objects and window functions, I finally figured out exactly what controls the window surfaces. Then, I wrote a script that finds all 9 breakable objects and hides them once the mission is completed. So now when the player returns to the beachhouse, all of the windows will be gone, which looks a hell of a lot nicer than it did with those huge panels of broken glass sticking out of the house.

I must be a genius to had figured this out, dayamn I feel gooooood! HAHA

BEFORE


AFTER
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Griff
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:17 am

What an odd bug. Nice job fixing it.
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Cretino
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:15 am

Always broken after the mission, right?
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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:24 pm

Cretino wrote:
Always broken after the mission, right?

Yeah, you can do it in your game too. Just go break some windows and leave the map, come back upstairs and check out the house, the window panels are all messed up. I suspect making the panels smaller in Hammer Tools, to actually fit the window would be the best fix but that would take oodles of hours to learn Hammer just for that.

I'm actually surprised Troika didn't make panels that fit the windows.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:48 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Cretino wrote:
Always broken after the mission, right?

Yeah, you can do it in your game too. Just go break some windows and leave the map, come back upstairs and check out the house, the window panels are all messed up. I suspect making the panels smaller in Hammer Tools, to actually fit the window would be the best fix but that would take oodles of hours to learn Hammer just for that.
And then you still have the problem that sometimes you can't recompile the map. That's why I couldn't make major changes when I used the beachhouse map for a player haven outside the hubs.

Quote :
I'm actually surprised Troika didn't make panels that fit the windows.
Maybe another sign for the rush. Or they didn't realize the problems until it was too late to fix it. It is probably the same thing in the museum, but there you can't se it because of the corridor ceilings.

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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:00 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Quote :
I'm actually surprised Troika didn't make panels that fit the windows.
Maybe another sign for the rush. Or they didn't realize the problems until it was too late to fix it. It is probably the same thing in the museum, but there you can't se it because of the corridor ceilings.

Exactly! study
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wesp5
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:17 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Maybe another sign for the rush.

Maybe. But then I don't think you can visit any of the external locations again after your mission there is finished!
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PostSubject: Re: Backtracking   Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:19 pm

wesp5 wrote:
Childe of Malkav wrote:

Maybe another sign for the rush.

Maybe. But then I don't think you can visit any of the external locations again after your mission there is finished!

Of course Gimble's and the Beachhouse are closed for sure (except in TFN 1.4) and the crackhouse downtown locks too. I'm not sure about anything else.
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