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Griff
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PostSubject: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:34 pm

I've been playing around on a Baali gunslinger recently, and I've noticed that both the desert eagle and the S&W 29 (formerly colt anaconda) are very slow-firing and extremely inaccurate. My ranged feat is 7 at the moment, and I can't reliably hit anyone unless I'm right next to them. The crosshair also takes 3-5 full seconds to align after movement. I have to wonder if this is intentional or a bug, because right now it seems like the Glock is leagues better, despite dealing inferior damage.
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:44 pm

Yep. It's probably because of the gun recoil.
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:57 pm

Cretino wrote:
Yep. It's probably because of the gun recoil.

This ^^

Here's a quick breakdown of the damage they do.

Colt - 28dmg
Deagle - 24dmg
Glock - 12dmg

As you can see, the Desert Eagle does double damage over the Glock and the S&W 29 does over double damage. These are very large and powerful caliber handguns so the recoil and accuracy suck on them. The Glock is by far the weakest gun in the game but compensates with accuracy.
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Griff
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:01 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Cretino wrote:
Yep. It's probably because of the gun recoil.

This ^^

Here's a quick breakdown of the damage they do.

Colt - 28dmg
Deagle - 24dmg
Glock - 12dmg

As you can see, the Desert Eagle does double damage over the Glock and the S&W 29 does over double damage. These are very large and powerful caliber handguns so the recoil and accuracy suck on them. The Glock is by far the weakest gun in the game but compensates with accuracy.

I see, is there any chance of it being toned town at least a little? Because right now it's not really much of a choice. I have to get so close with the deagle and colt that I may as well be using melee.
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:22 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Cretino wrote:
Yep. It's probably because of the gun recoil.

This ^^

Here's a quick breakdown of the damage they do.

Colt - 28dmg
Deagle - 24dmg
Glock - 12dmg

As you can see, the Desert Eagle does double damage over the Glock and the S&W 29 does over double damage. These are very large and powerful caliber handguns so the recoil and accuracy suck on them. The Glock is by far the weakest gun in the game but compensates with accuracy.

But recoil goes for consecutive shots, like the Patria SMG, which sucks a lot with it's recoil (please fix it, can't handle), and we are saying that even one shotting is hard! Heck, every gun so far is innacurate. Except the Remington. Never missed it, even with 1 Ranged.

What I mean is the crosshair. The recoil does screw the "aim", but the accuracy is still there, and the crosshair gets bigger. Now, the crosshair is very slow, and the accuracy is low; what's the point of waiting? I'd rather throw knifes at the enemy (which would be a very cool weapon concept).


Last edited by Cretino on Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:23 pm

Griff wrote:
I see, is there any chance of it being toned town at least a little? Because right now it's not really much of a choice. I have to get so close with the deagle and colt that I may as well be using melee.

Sure, I could make all the guns more similar to each other, but then that would close the door to different strategies to the player. Different guns play differently. Paired up with tactics and disciplines, this is a good thing. Now imagine if you were a Celerity player and you speed ran up to someone, emptied a clip of S&W 29 rounds into them, hitting your target with each bullet, then sped off again before they could react.

Just one idea on using such a powerful gun that has no accuracy. I'm sure you can put even more ideas to use than what I could think of. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:31 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Griff wrote:
I see, is there any chance of it being toned town at least a little? Because right now it's not really much of a choice. I have to get so close with the deagle and colt that I may as well be using melee.

Sure, I could make all the guns more similar to each other, but then that would close the door to different strategies to the player. Different guns play differently. Paired up with tactics and disciplines, this is a good thing. Now imagine if you were a Celerity player and you speed ran up to someone, emptied a clip of S&W 29 rounds into them, hitting your target with each bullet, then sped off again before they could react.

Just one idea on using such a powerful gun that has no accuracy. I'm sure you can put even more ideas to use than what I could think of. Smile

I guess I'm just annoyed that I can't really use these guns like guns. Even point blank isn't a guaranteed hit believe it or not. Just the enforced slower rate of fire I could understand. It'd be a straight up choice between slow big numbers and faster smaller numbers. To be straight with you though, the glock is a functional firearm while the colt and deagle are not.
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:34 pm

Griff wrote:
Zer0Morph wrote:
Griff wrote:
I see, is there any chance of it being toned town at least a little? Because right now it's not really much of a choice. I have to get so close with the deagle and colt that I may as well be using melee.

Sure, I could make all the guns more similar to each other, but then that would close the door to different strategies to the player. Different guns play differently. Paired up with tactics and disciplines, this is a good thing. Now imagine if you were a Celerity player and you speed ran up to someone, emptied a clip of S&W 29 rounds into them, hitting your target with each bullet, then sped off again before they could react.

Just one idea on using such a powerful gun that has no accuracy. I'm sure you can put even more ideas to use than what I could think of. Smile

I guess I'm just annoyed that I can't really use these guns like guns. Even point blank isn't a guaranteed hit believe it or not. Just the enforced slower rate of fire I could understand. It'd be a straight up choice between slow big numbers and faster smaller numbers. To be straight with you though, the glock is a functional firearm while the colt and deagle are not.

Yeah, your last phrase sums it up.

Btw, I edit my post.
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:35 pm

I can't say I know a thing about firearms, but recently I was interested in Rick Grimes' revolver, which turned out to be Colt Python.
After some research, price tags and videos it turned out that the recoil isn't as big as one would expect due to the heavy body of the revolver.

Do not take this information as accurate... I've never held a gun in my life, unfortunately.

Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JUN58v2RWs

I suggest you update the revolver to Colt Python (cause Rick Grimes is fucking awesome and the gun is a classic) and maybe making sure that the ammo is magnum .357 and not .44.

While .44 has much more penetrating power, the recoil is quite big and the accuracy suffers (recoil shouldn't be a problem for a vampire, should it? scratch ), the .357 seems to be handled much easier and is way more accurate (especially in succeeding shots).
Here is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2M8C3BHhsA

Wow, how much can a person learn from a simple question. Thanks you, Griff.

P.S It's a badass looking gun and I want it in real life! http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/11/18/1226735/530981-131012-rev-the-walking-dead.jpg

Edit: Isn't firearms supposed to decrease recoil and increase accuracy?
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:38 pm

YamiRaziel wrote:
snip
Hah, I was also admiring Rick's colt last night. That would be pretty cool to have it ingame.
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:02 pm

Did you say special weapons given upon completion of very hard tasks?
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:15 pm

If Zer0/Malkav grant us with a Colt Python, I'll be like this:
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:24 pm

@YamiRaziel: .357 is 9mm, same caliber as the glock. So you can't expect a colt with that caliber to have better range or penetration. Could be a substitute for the .38, but not for the anaconda.

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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:32 pm

As I said, Malkav, I know nothing of guns.

Why are we discussing range, however. I thought the issues were recoil, inaccuracy and firing rate. A quick wiki search shows that the Colt Anaconda is using .44 magnum, which should be the more inaccurate, slower with bigger recoil. I'm not saying it shouldn't have a stronger penetration power.
If a gun is more inaccurate though, shouldn't range further increase that inaccuracy or guns don't work that way? Wouldn't that make the .357 superior in terms of range/accuracy? Does the penetration power determine the accuracy in longer ranges?

It feels like we're reading one of the Bloodlines books *Guns for dummies.*

Edit: I'm super confused Shocked Some American or gun fan, please explain it to me Neutral
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:45 pm

Accuracy isn't so much determined by recoil or caliber. Weight distribution and barrel length are the important factors here. That's why a submashinegun climbs as hell, but an assault rifle with even more power is steadier. The rifle is longer and heavier, so you have a better hold on it.

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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:18 pm

YamiRaziel wrote:
As I said, Malkav, I know nothing of guns.

Why are we discussing range, however. I thought the issues were recoil, inaccuracy and firing rate. A quick wiki search shows that the Colt Anaconda is using .44 magnum, which should be the more inaccurate, slower with bigger recoil. I'm not saying it shouldn't have a stronger penetration power.
If a gun is more inaccurate though, shouldn't range further increase that inaccuracy or guns don't work that way? Wouldn't that make the .357 superior in terms of range/accuracy? Does the penetration power determine the accuracy in longer ranges?

It feels like we're reading one of the Bloodlines books *Guns for dummies.*

Edit: I'm super confused Shocked Some American or gun fan, please explain it to me Neutral

You see Yami, the bullet has to travel a distance to reach the target, and when the powder explodes, it could go literally anywhere if there weren't any barrels. So, with a longer barrel your bullet will be sligther more accurate. Just like Malkav said.
Now, when firing, there's the chance your hand will tremble and lower your accuracy. Because of the explosion, again. And this .44 is very strong. (but if malkav said it isn't much determined by caliber, then it isn't)

Even a small gun with small bullet can be innacurate if it has a small barrel. I don't remember where, but they delivered any of the bandit's gun back but with a sawed barrel, so that guy isn't particularly dangerous...
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:35 pm

Did you guys check the video I posted regarding the calibers. They tested the same gun with the same barrel (I think), and determined that .357 is actually more accurate than .44. And how's recoil not part of accuracy? If you can't hold your gun your shot can literally go all over the place, doesn't it. Not to mention that recoil has to be a very big inconvenience when you try to shoot more than one bullet.

I don't want to argue, guys. As I've said, I haven't hold a gun so I wouldn't really know. It's just that some of it doesn't seem logical to me.


Last edited by YamiRaziel on Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:45 pm

Neither did I. I'm just following the elder.
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:52 am

Of course recoil is a big issue for the second shot, unless you wait until you have steadied your hand again.
It can't be the same barrel for the smaller caliber. Maybe the same length. But then increased accuracy is caused by a higher weight/explosion-force ratio. And that also means less power and range for the bullet.
I don't have much experience with guns either, but I know that a longer, heavier gun is more stable than a short, light one. Unless some of the power is used to prevent climbing, like it's done with the glock.

I still say, the colt anaconda and the desert eagle should stay bigass guns. We already have two toy pistols: the glock and the small revolver.

But to be honest, I don't really care either way. The only weapons I need for the game are a knife, a glock, and the Steyr.

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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:23 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
But to be honest, I don't really care either way. The only weapons I need for the game are a knife, a glock, and the Steyr.

The only weapon I need is my big oversized Brujah Johnson! Sexual BEAST I am!!! RAWWWRRR!! affraid
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:26 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Childe of Malkav wrote:
But to be honest, I don't really care either way. The only weapons I need for the game are a knife, a glock, and the Steyr.

The only weapon I need is my big oversized Brujah Johnson! Sexual BEAST I am!!! RAWWWRRR!! affraid

For some reason I could easily see the severed arm weapon being model swapped with that. Jiggle and all.
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PostSubject: Re: Handguns   Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:59 pm

Griff wrote:
For some reason I could easily see the severed arm weapon being model swapped with that. Jiggle and all.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! LOLOLOLS! Good one! lol! lol! lol!

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