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 Samedi and Elysium

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Griff
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PostSubject: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:27 am

First of all, let me say that I am delighted by the fact that you can no longer waltz around the surface like you own the place when playing as an obvious supernatural. I always hated that I had to literally bump into someone head-on as a Nosferatu for anyone to notice. However there is one problem, Elysium. When leaving a normal building, a Samedi can just Obfuscate before opening the door, and should find themselves invisible after the loading screen. However, leaving an Elysium is usually a guaranteed criminal violation since no disciplines are allowed within.

Now, I don't know much about the actual modding process so feel free to give me a flat no, but would it be possible to allow just Obfuscate while inside an Elysium location?

Also, as a side suggestion - Would you be willing to remove the transparent effect on the character during Obfuscate, but keep the other visual effects? I feel like this would better illustrate that it's a mental effect and not true invisibility. If you're in the mood, making the cameras in the hospital and museum still pick you up while obfuscated would be nice too.
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Maxus Corvin
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:47 am

Griff wrote:

Also, as a side suggestion - Would you be willing to remove the transparent effect on the character during Obfuscate, but keep the other visual effects? I feel like this would better illustrate that it's a mental effect and not true invisibility. If you're in the mood, making the cameras in the hospital and museum still pick you up while obfuscated would be nice too.

It could be argued that the visual effect of the character being invisible is more how the kindred would see him/herself. Plus, it aligns with how most view invisibility powers in games and other media, where usually you can't see much beyond a glassy blur. A hint to the audience/players, but in most cases other characters do not notice anything. Eh, save for the games that do it just a certain way where the "invisibility" is not really that(i.e the AVP2 pc game, where the Predator Camo is laughable - enemies can still spot you if you are close enough, while cloaked), and does not work how one would expect.

Otherwise, I'm not sure if it is possible to have character models show up in cameras. You've seen that one camera where that girl gets dragged away in the Abandoned Hospital? You can move that camera and place it right in front of the doorway that leads into the room where the monitor showing it's feed is. Save for the room itself, staring at that monitor with the camera there only shows the room, not your character model.
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Griff
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:50 am

Maxus Corvin wrote:
Griff wrote:

Also, as a side suggestion - Would you be willing to remove the transparent effect on the character during Obfuscate, but keep the other visual effects? I feel like this would better illustrate that it's a mental effect and not true invisibility. If you're in the mood, making the cameras in the hospital and museum still pick you up while obfuscated would be nice too.

It could be argued that the visual effect of the character being invisible is more how the kindred would see him/herself. Plus, it aligns with how most view invisibility powers in games and other media, where usually you can't see much beyond a glassy blur. A hint to the audience/players, but in most cases other characters do not notice anything. Eh, save for the games that do it just a certain way where the "invisibility" is not really that(i.e the AVP2 pc game, where the Predator Camo is laughable - enemies can still spot you if you are close enough, while cloaked), and does not work how one would expect.

Otherwise, I'm not sure if it is possible to have character models show up in cameras. You've seen that one camera where that girl gets dragged away in the Abandoned Hospital? You can move that camera and place it right in front of the doorway that leads into the room where the monitor showing it's feed is. Save for the room itself, staring at that monitor with the camera there only shows the room, not your character model.

Sorry, I didn't mean actually showing up on cameras visually. I meant the security cameras being able to detect you and trigger the alarm.
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Maxus Corvin
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:06 am

Griff wrote:

Sorry, I didn't mean actually showing up on cameras visually. I meant the security cameras being able to detect you and trigger the alarm.

I see. Would this not make sneaking through these places(even with a Setite if the Obfuscate stays, or Baali), almost impossible to sneak through? As maybe no guards would be able to see you, but you would still have the place on high alert. Which might have some of the guards be more active in certain places, like the Museum basement.

Plus, given the issue with humanity in TFN, mostly with the Museum section if you play a low humanity character, wherein doing so may just force one to sneak through it or avoid killing the guards to get through it(even if it would just be 3 guards in your way, and before this you have 3 or 4 points of humanity).
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:14 am

Maxus Corvin wrote:
Griff wrote:

Sorry, I didn't mean actually showing up on cameras visually. I meant the security cameras being able to detect you and trigger the alarm.

I see. Would this not make sneaking through these places(even with a Setite if the Obfuscate stays, or Baali), almost impossible to sneak through? As maybe no guards would be able to see you, but you would still have the place on high alert. Which might have some of the guards be more active in certain places, like the Museum basement.

Plus, given the issue with humanity in TFN, mostly with the Museum section if you play a low humanity character, wherein doing so may just force one to sneak through it or avoid killing the guards to get through it(even if it would just be 3 guards in your way, and before this you have 3 or 4 points of humanity).

Not really, you would just have to avoid the cameras like everyone else. The camera in the hospital can be disabled rather easily via the computer, and the cameras in the museum move constantly to allow you to sneak through their blind spot. I've sneaked through the museum without obfuscate a bunch of times.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:54 am

I agree it would be lore friendly if the obfuscated player sounds the camera alarm, but ingame obfuscate is handled by only one setting. So I doubt it's possible.

Btw, have the antitribu guys disabled the camera alarm for Lasombra?

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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:11 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:
I agree it would be lore friendly if the obfuscated player sounds the camera alarm, but ingame obfuscate is handled by only one setting. So I doubt it's possible.

Btw, have the antitribu guys disabled the camera alarm for Lasombra?

You are joking, right? Them and lore?
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:14 am

Feral wrote:
Childe of Malkav wrote:
I agree it would be lore friendly if the obfuscated player sounds the camera alarm, but ingame obfuscate is handled by only one setting. So I doubt it's possible.

Btw, have the antitribu guys disabled the camera alarm for Lasombra?

You are joking, right? Them and lore?

I think they did disable it for the Lasombra, as I saw people talking about it on the forums, and I wasn't at all stealthy playing through the museum. I don't think I heard the alarm going off, even if I was in direct view of a camera.
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:08 pm

What I did was setup a trigger outside of every building in the main hub that delays the Samedi detection system by 8 seconds. This should allow the Samedi 8 seconds of grace to walk, run, Obfuscate (if possible) or hide before a violation can occur.

Is this not working properly?


Last edited by Zer0Morph on Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:56 pm

Hell no!
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:59 pm

Cretino wrote:
Hell no!

How? What's wrong?
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kyoden
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:13 pm

Btw someone watching you via a camera while you use Obfuscate wouldn't see you at all. His mind is clouded after all. He just ignores your presence even though it should be plainly obvious. If someone would check the same tape later on or watch it via a delay (Lets say it gets recorded and instantly played again) you would loose that clouded benefit. Even though, thats some nitpicking technique I've seen some players use to make their haven "Obfuscate Proof". I do doubt that your regular guard, etc would know about Obfuscate so well. Maybe the Nosferatu Warrens, but thats about it. They got both the tools: A deep understanding of obfuscate and usually the technical gadgets.

Did I mention that I need some answers in my stealth thread?
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:32 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Cretino wrote:
Hell no!

How? What's wrong?
I will use the examples that ticks me off most: leaving Mercurio's apartment (there's alway a guy coming from the left, like, ALWAYS), and leaving the Asylum club.
I gotta raise Stealth so high (6 and higher) so I can leave places crouched, to make sure I can walk away!
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:40 pm

Right. The 8 seconds are not that much of help. If someone can see you, you can't obfuscate.

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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:24 pm

One trick I learned coming out of Mercurio's apt is to turn around facing the door as fast as you can and obfuscate. Now other places are trickier. Most of the time when I come out of the Asylum, I run to the alley as fast as I can and hope for the best. LMAO
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:45 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Cretino wrote:
Hell no!

How? What's wrong?

I just tested it to be absolutely sure, and it's not working at all. I got a criminal violation the moment I stepped outside of mercurio's apartment.
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:59 pm

Griff wrote:
Zer0Morph wrote:
Cretino wrote:
Hell no!

How? What's wrong?

I just tested it to be absolutely sure, and it's not working at all. I got a criminal violation the moment I stepped outside of mercurio's apartment.

Is it possible that there was someone walking by Mercurio's apartment? That will trigger the violation as it uses the old Nosferatu system still.
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Griff
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:09 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Griff wrote:
Zer0Morph wrote:
Cretino wrote:
Hell no!

How? What's wrong?

I just tested it to be absolutely sure, and it's not working at all. I got a criminal violation the moment I stepped outside of mercurio's apartment.

Is it possible that there was someone walking by Mercurio's apartment? That will trigger the violation as it uses the old Nosferatu system still.
It's possible I didn't see someone, but unless I am mistaken the violation came from a ways away.
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:09 pm

I just had an idea how it is possible to let a Samedi leave Elysium maps obfuscated.
Instead of just making the teleport when the player uses the door, make a logic python check if the player is Samedi first.
On False, make the teleport at once as usual.
On True, delay the teleport by two or three seconds, and immediately switch the map to masquerade area or combat zone. Then your Samedi has a few seconds to activate Obfuscate before leaving.
All it requires is an events_world on the map, but there is one on most maps anyway. And you must make sure that on the next mapload Elysium is restored.

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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:11 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
I just had an idea how it is possible to let a Samedi leave Elysium maps obfuscated.
Instead of just making the teleport when the player uses the door, make a logic python check if the player is Samedi first.
On False, make the teleport at once as usual.
On True, delay the teleport by two or three seconds, and immediately switch the map to masquerade area or combat zone. Then your Samedi has a few seconds to activate Obfuscate before leaving.
All it requires is an events_world on the map, but there is one on most maps anyway. And you must make sure that on the next mapload Elysium is restored.

Nice, I'm glad to hear that it's possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:14 pm

The script for the Samedi detection system is called LordOfTheFlies. This script is on a delayed timer when you walk out of a side shop back into a main hub. It shouldn't even fire off for 8 seconds when transporting into a main hub. If you are being detected in that time, then a pedestrian was too close to you and it used the old Nosferatu system.

Maybe I should disable the Nosferatu system.
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Griff
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:21 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
The script for the Samedi detection system is called LordOfTheFlies. This script is on a delayed timer when you walk out of a side shop back into a main hub. It shouldn't even fire off for 8 seconds when transporting into a main hub. If you are being detected in that time, then a pedestrian was too close to you and it used the old Nosferatu system.

Maybe I should disable the Nosferatu system.

Perhaps that is what was happening then. Those hobos can be sneakier than Nosferatu sometimes. Anyway, is the old Nossie system still important in some way or is it just redundant with LordOfTheFlies in place?
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:32 pm

I'm not sure, but I think the only use it has in TFN is displaying the "Nos radar"

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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:34 pm

Griff wrote:
Perhaps that is what was happening then. Those hobos can be sneakier than Nosferatu sometimes. Anyway, is the old Nossie system still important in some way or is it just redundant with LordOfTheFlies in place?

Well I'm looking at the script now and it appears that the script checks the distance of VPedestrians and VHumans and if they are too close to the Samedi, they get frightened. If you get too close to VHumanCombatant's they become hostile towards you. As far as accruing Masquerade Violations, that's still handled by the old Nosferatu system so I will probably have to keep it.

It's my understanding that just being too close to these people isn't enough to trigger a violation, they must see you also. So if you're hidden or Obfuscated, you're good. But the delay of 8 seconds is still in effect upon entering the main hubs, so the only reason I can think of why the violation would occur would be if a pedestrian just happens to be really close right when you walk into the hub, like in the case of Mercurio's apartment.
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PostSubject: Re: Samedi and Elysium   Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:40 pm

I remember now that when I played as a Samedi and I walked out of Mercurio's apartment, I would immediately crouch down and let that guy walk past me. I wouldn't trigger the alarm because he walks by within the 8 second delay. Then I would Obfuscate and be free to creepy around. Typically I would head to the sewers so I could run to my destination quicker. I didn't start traveling via the streets until I had Obfuscate 4.

When I walked out of the Diner, I would immediately crouch down and keep hitting Obfuscate until nobody looked at me, but I wouldn't move from my spot until I was invisible.

For the Asylum, I would immediately run around the corner to the trash bins and hide, then pop Obfuscate. That's how I played the whole game as a Samedi and I beat TFN 1.2 using that method. I didn't get Obfuscate 5, I stopped at 4 just so I could run the streets invisible.

It was definitely the hardest TFN clan to play, but gave me a VERY different experience compared to the other clans. Smile
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