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 New Presence system in TFN 1.4

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Zer0Morph
Caine
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PostSubject: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:07 pm

Presence - "Vampires with Presence can manipulate others' emotions, becoming their victims' dream lovers or their most terrifying nightmares. Vampires must be wary of their feelings when they are in the company of these awesome beings."

I'm super excited to present the new Presence System that I'd like to implement in TFN 1.4. Remember how I've overhauled the Inspection System along with the Auspex discipline. Well, I wanted to make Presence more useful than just a debuff combat discipline and incorporate its awesomeness in dialogue somehow. I've looked at Wesp's implementation of Presence and then Malkav's but I wasn't completely satisfied with them for TFN.

So what I did was grant a bonus depending on the player's level of Presence which will automatically activate each time the player goes in to dialogue with an NPC. You will hear the Presence activation sound play starting at level 3 Presence and a message above the NPC's head that says "Presence Bonus Active" and when you end dialogue you will hear the Presence deactivation sound play and another message above the NPC's head that says "Presence Bonus Ended".

These bonuses are only activated during dialogue and they do not cost blood to use. I'm limited on how I can set this up, either you would have to use 1 blood point every time you spoke to an NPC or never use one at all. I didn't think it was fair to force the player to spend blood each time they spoke to someone so I decided to make this bonus free and a part of having higher levels of Presence. I then reduced the duration of Presence to compensate for the free bonus. I also renamed the different tiers for Presence to reflect the new bonuses gained.

The bonuses are like this (and they don't require blood)
Presence 1 (Awe) = No bonus
Presence 2 (Entrancement) = No bonus but you do begin your entrancement effect in combat (10%)
Presence 3 (Passion) = +1 Intimidate/Seduction (You begin learning to manipulate the emotions of others)
Presence 4 (Force of Personality) = +2 Intimidate/Seduction +1 Persuasion (You begin learning to project your personality for a Persuasion bonus and increase your Intimidate/Seduction bonus)
Presence 5 (Majesty) = +3 Intimidate/Seduction +2 Persuasion (You've mastered the art of dialogue manipulation)

I decided not to grant any special bonuses to Presence 1 or 2 because I didn't want the player to start with it. I want to only grant bonuses to players who choose to really invest in it. I figure nobody is going to spend 12 XP to get to level 3 just for the +1 Intimidate and Seduction. I don't want this generosity exploited.

I really think this will help capture Presence and not just make it some silly combat debuff discipline. Because you aren't spending blood for the bonuses, I made the bonuses small. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, this works in Elysium and when people auto-begin dialogue too, so this system works perfectly in all situations! Also, I am working on adding particle effects to go with the sound effects already present.

I will post a video once this is done to show you how it really plays. But so far, I'm freaking loving the new Presence discipline! Let me know what you think! bounce bounce bounce bounce
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Cretino
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:53 pm

Level1: Wait, now I start with a free nothing on my mouse wheel?
Level2: Do I activate it to mesmerize people or it's always on?
Level3: Intimidate sucks (unless you changed the lines on TFN) and Seduction more so (you can always hunt) but I appreciate being able to find out people' secrets via seduction.
Level4: Now we're talking.
Level5: So, we don't get a little raise per level, like 2,5%, on the mesmerize debuff?


I hope nobody says that, by using it on Elysium, you're breaking some vampire-agreement of "lets persuade people without disciplines" and let this FABULOUUUS adition to the game in!
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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:55 pm

Cretino wrote:
Level1: Wait, now I start with a free nothing on my mouse wheel?
Level2: Do I activate it to mesmerize people or it's always on?
Level3: Intimidate sucks (unless you changed the lines on TFN) and Seduction more so (you can always hunt) but I appreciate being able to find out people' secrets via seduction.
Level4: Now we're talking.
Level5: So, we don't get a little raise per level, like 2,5%, on the mesmerize debuff?


I hope nobody says that, by using it on Elysium, you're breaking some vampire-agreement of "lets persuade people without disciplines" and let this FABULOUUUS adition to the game in!

The only change I've made to the original Presence is the duration, the mesmerizing effects and everything else are still the same. Just want to be clear on that. So basically, you get less duration on Presence in exchange for boosts to your base Intimidation, Seduction, and Persuasion feats in dialogue.
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Feral
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:59 pm

I like what you are saying... Do not stop.
*tries to be cute and gets a grimace as if pooing in the woods*

Seriously, I think your take on Presence is really PnP, so good.
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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:10 pm

Feral wrote:
Seriously, I think your take on Presence is really PnP, so good.

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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:15 pm

One concern I've been having is how appropriate would it be to be using Presence while speaking to certain Kindred.

Example: According to VtM lore, would using Presence while speaking to the Prince or Primogen of a city get you into trouble? I honestly don't know and need my lore experts to answer this. Fortunately, I can decide who and who not to activate this for, so if there's an NPC where you don't think it's lore-friendly to use Presence, I can disable it for that NPC.

Make a list and explain your reasons.
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kyoden
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:29 pm

Right of the top of my head, the following people could get annoyed, angry, etc about you using Presence on them.

- higher Generation (well, the older Gens are sometimes harder to effect, but it comes along with many of the below points due to their age)
- knowledge of Presence
- a certain Age
- High Willpower

- LaCroix
- probably every Primogen
- Isaac
- V
- Strauss
- Beckett
- Jack
- Nines

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MxM
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:30 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
One concern I've been having is how appropriate would it be to be using Presence while speaking to certain Kindred.

Example: According to VtM lore, would using Presence while speaking to the Prince or Primogen of a city get you into trouble? I honestly don't know and need my lore experts to answer this. Fortunately, I can decide who and who not to activate this for, so if there's an NPC where you don't think it's lore-friendly to use Presence, I can disable it for that NPC.

Make a list and explain your reasons.
I'm not a lore expert, anyway Presence shouldn't get you in trouble as it is both very subtle and it's also used frequently both in Elysiums and between Kindred (opposed to Dominate that is considered rude)
Anyway I love the change Very Happy
Edit: http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Presence_(VTM)
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kyoden
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:34 pm

Yes, it is more sublte, but why do I like this guy so much lately. He just screwed up my whole plan ... ah what the heck. He's a nice guy anyways.

At a certain age you are way more catious to trust. Its a game of intrique and survival after all. A new one might be impressed easily. An old one certainly will scratch is head. Also, gaining an Intimidation bonus isn't that subtle.
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:38 pm

kyoden wrote:
Also, gaining an Intimidation bonus isn't that subtle.

You mean like "Why is this weaker kindred freaking me out right now?!?!" kind of way?

Basically, I need a list of NPCs that we can (more or less) agree on so I can remove the Presence bonus and effects on them. I'll decompiling the maps with NPCs today and tomorrow so hopefully sooner rather than later we can decide.

I'm on a modding hot streak right now, don't let me cool down! Cool
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kyoden
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:41 pm

Yes, and also from the respect standpoint. Strauss certainly wouldn't pee in his bloody pants if I look mean (there are also ways how he could defend himself or his home against Presence, but I doubt he knows or can perform any of them).

I do not know how many of them have social lines/options anyways. So, it might not be relevant with them. Just some names.
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:03 pm

There are some instances where Presence would be of no use at all, should I leave Presence off for these encounters? Some off the top of my head would be...

Taxi Driver
Carson

...or any other minor NPC encounter where Persusion, Intimidation, or Seduction apply.

Leave it off or keep it on for these types of characters?
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:22 pm

Also, would Presence work in the case with Jimmy Reed when I speak to him on the phone? It was my understanding that you had to be physically near the person your trying to influence, therefore you wouldn't be able to use Presence on Jimmy over the phone.
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Feral
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:33 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Also, would Presence work in the case with Jimmy Reed when I speak to him on the phone? It was my understanding that you had to be physically near the person your trying to influence, therefore you wouldn't be able to use Presence on Jimmy over the phone.

If memory serves, no. You need to be in physical vicinity.
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kyoden
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:48 pm

Excactly, he needs to be within your presence Smile)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:52 pm

Cool, I will leave Presence off of the phone then.
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MxM
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:12 pm

How will the blood doll system work with the new Presence mechanic?
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:18 pm

MxM wrote:
How will the blood doll system work with the new Presence mechanic?

The same as before, you will get the Presence bonus making Seduction easier to succeed on. Blood dolls will very easy to feed from for a high Presence player with a medium Seduction level.
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Cretino
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:25 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Also, would Presence work in the case with Jimmy Reed when I speak to him on the phone? It was my understanding that you had to be physically near the person your trying to influence, therefore you wouldn't be able to use Presence on Jimmy over the phone.
It's called PRESENCE, not Omnipresence!
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:29 pm

Hm, let's see.
-LaCroix would be pissed.
-Therese would also not like it. She has a line: Did you just try to dominate me...
-Jeanette on the other hand would probably enjoy it.
-Isaak plays presence himself. So not a good idea to try.
-Gary. He cares shit about politics. At least he says so. And there's nothing to gain anyway in his dialog.
-Bertram thinks of himself as an elder (don't know if he really is), so I think it would annoy him.
-Jack and Beckett would probably not care, but also not be influenced too much. They are real elders after all.
-VV is so self absorbed she would be flattered.
-Ash is a fledgling or neonate himself, so no danger there. Same goes for Gary's childer.
-the ghouls and thin bloods don't count.

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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:39 pm

Childe, what about Nines, Skelter, Damsel (or whatever her name was), Ming Xao, Andrei and all those other NPCs.
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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:42 pm

So don't add Presence to the following characters
Taxi Driver
Jimmy Reed
LaCroix
Therese
Isaak
Gary
Bertram
Jack
Beckett
Bach (No reason to add it to him)
Ming Xiao
Nines
Strauss
Tourette
Akeem


Should we add it to Pisha or leave Presence off for her as well?
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:43 pm

YamiRaziel wrote:
Childe, what about Nines, Skelter, Damsel (or whatever her name was), Ming Xao, Andrei and all those other NPCs.
Do I have to think about everything? I'm the resident madman here. Not the brains...

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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:51 pm

Presence can be resisted with willpower but even other kindred could not realize when you are using on them, contrary to Dominate. Presence is not different to being charismatic. I think you can use it on every kindred in the game
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:57 pm

MxM wrote:
Presence can be resisted with willpower but even other kindred could not realize when you are using on them, contrary to Dominate. Presence is not different to being charismatic. I think you can use it on every kindred in the game

I made a list, so you're saying take everyone off of it except the taxi driver and those on the telephone or television (Mandarin).
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