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 New Presence system in TFN 1.4

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Dragatus
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:10 pm

What if I'm playing a dumb Ishtarri who totally would use Presence on the Prince?
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:33 pm

Dragatus wrote:
What if I'm playing a dumb Ishtarri who totally would use Presence on the Prince?

A dumb Ishtarri wouldn't survive very long so if I were you, caught in that situation, I would roll a new character and start over with someone brighter. Exclamation
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Dragatus
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:58 pm

The thing is I want to be able to make my own decisions. And suffer the appropriate consequences. It's called roleplaying.
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:10 pm

Dragatus wrote:
The thing is I want to be able to make my own decisions. And suffer the appropriate consequences. It's called roleplaying.

A point is made.
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:19 pm

Dragatus wrote:
The thing is I want to be able to make my own decisions. And suffer the appropriate consequences. It's called roleplaying.

You'll want to play a game with a better engine then, and a true SDK. I can't rescript the engine so I'm limited to what I can offer you guys, so I do the best I can with what I got. I try to make the decisions on these systems, public, to get the majority vote and implement it.
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:43 pm

In this particular case I think it would be best to ignore the p&p mechanics. From a lore perspective a simple +1 or +2 to Persuasion isn't that bad. And it's not like you ever get to seduce or intimidate any of the elders.
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:36 pm

I don't think we need to complicate it any further. You can't use it on elders, because they can negate it without even rolling a dice. 1 negation for the entire night, that's all it's needed. You can still enjoy the bonus with all non-elders and human characters.
I think that's pretty sweet.

And if you truly wanna roleplay, I think the pen and paper version is what should be recommended. In Bloodlines you mostly play the clan archetypes.

Zer0, you can maybe put a HINT in the loading screens that Presence doesn't work on elders vampire due to big generation difference.
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:43 pm

Dragatus wrote:
In this particular case I think it would be best to ignore the p&p mechanics. From a lore perspective a simple +1 or +2 to Persuasion isn't that bad. And it's not like you ever get to seduce or intimidate any of the elders.

Actually I don't think you CAN Persuade, Intimidate, or Seduce any of the elders, with the except of a few minor instances like getting the gun from Jack in the tutorial but I put that in, not Troika.

YamiRaziel wrote:
Zer0, you can maybe put a HINT in the loading screens that Presence doesn't work on elders vampire due to big generation difference.


I could definitely do that. I could even put it in the discipline description.
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MxM
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:00 pm

YamiRaziel wrote:
I don't think we need to complicate it any further. You can't use it on elders, because they can negate it without even rolling a dice. 1 negation for the entire night, that's all it's needed. You can still enjoy the bonus with all non-elders and human characters.
I think that's pretty sweet.

And if you truly wanna roleplay, I think the pen and paper version is what should be recommended. In Bloodlines you mostly play the clan archetypes.

Zer0, you can maybe put a HINT in the loading screens that Presence doesn't work on elders vampire due to big generation difference.
The PC is 8th generation so the elder should be 5th to negate it.
Anyway is Therese an elder? When you talk to Bertram (or Jack, I don't remember scratch ) he says something about "being pushed around by vampires a week older than you"...
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:36 pm

Also as LaCroix can't Dominate you at the end of the game ("give me the key") doesn't it mean he is of higher generation than you scratch ?
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:41 pm

MxM wrote:
Also as LaCroix can't Dominate you at the end of the game ("give me the key") doesn't it mean he is of higher generation than you scratch ?

Higher, equal or the PC got Iron Will Merit.
I lean for the last...
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:59 pm

I rebuilt all of the maps and compiled them, now I need to create the graph nodes and I should get to start playing with this new Presence system tonight to test it out. If I don't find any major bugs then I'll probably begin making a video to show.

Lastly, these 2 systems + the new Warriors of Set, I'm wondering we should have a closed Alpha test with a few members to play with these systems. Kind've like a pre-beta sort of thing. Do you think that's a good idea and if so, would anyone like to play around with pre-1.4?
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:02 pm

That would alpha testing, since you're still not making it public, and the possibility to have bugs are high (different than null).
Anyone up for alpha? I only beta test. I won't break my computer anyfurther than I already have :p
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:35 am

MxM wrote:
YamiRaziel wrote:
I don't think we need to complicate it any further. You can't use it on elders, because they can negate it without even rolling a dice. 1 negation for the entire night, that's all it's needed. You can still enjoy the bonus with all non-elders and human characters.
I think that's pretty sweet.

And if you truly wanna roleplay, I think the pen and paper version is what should be recommended. In Bloodlines you mostly play the clan archetypes.

Zer0, you can maybe put a HINT in the loading screens that Presence doesn't work on elders vampire due to big generation difference.
The PC is 8th generation so the elder should be 5th to negate it.
Anyway is Therese an elder? When you talk to Bertram (or Jack, I don't remember scratch ) he says something about "being pushed around by vampires a week older than you"...

Supposedly 8th generation, but I prefer to look at the player as if 12th generation or 11th tops. Making the player 8th generation makes him lower than any NPC you encounter in the entire game with the exception of Beckett. Even Jack is 10th generation and that's ridiculous.

I don't think they would've executed your sire as easily if he was 7th generation vampire. That just wouldn't happen. None of those idiots, especially La Croix would've been able to capture him, let alone execute him without almost any response from the community.

Let's say that Troika weren't perfect and they were not 100% lore abiding.
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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:07 am

YamiRaziel wrote:
Let's say that Troika weren't perfect and they were not 100% lore abiding.

Oh I know, Troika took A LOT of liberties in creating Bloodlines when it came to lore. The whole game happens in like a weeks time, you heal only when you feed, etc...

It's easy to harp on the modders about lore when Troika broke tons of rules, but in the defense of Troika, they didn't have the best resources or timescale to work with either.
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:23 am

Okay kiddies, I finished the new Presence system and it's fully integrated into TFN 1.4. I must say, I played with it tonight in Downtown LA and it's FREAKING AWESOME!! I gave myself Presence 5 and ran the Boris quest and charmed their pants off. I had them absolutely loving and eating out of my hand, and it was all because of my high Presence.

I am glad that I made it so you aren't forced to watch the mesmerizing particles because they do make you a little dizzy after awhile, lol. I always use "Z" for my "Switch View" button so after I got tired of looking at it, I'd quickly turn it off, fortunately turning it off and on is so easy that it's really nice. If you want the RPG feeling, leave it on, if you don't, leave it off. Smile

Okay, need some testers to try this out.
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MxM
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:33 am

Feral wrote:
MxM wrote:
Also as LaCroix can't Dominate you at the end of the game ("give me the key") doesn't it mean he is of higher generation than you scratch ?

Higher, equal or the PC got Iron Will Merit.
I lean for the last...
Well, I learned something new Very Happy
* pat Feral on the head and scratch him behind his ears *

@Zer0: that sounds great! How does alpha test work? In case I am available to do it around mid March
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:26 am

Zer0Morph wrote:
Okay kiddies, I finished the new Presence system and it's fully integrated into TFN 1.4. I must say, I played with it tonight in Downtown LA and it's FREAKING AWESOME!! I gave myself Presence 5 and ran the Boris quest and charmed their pants off. I had them absolutely loving and eating out of my hand, and it was all because of my high Presence.

I am glad that I made it so you aren't forced to watch the mesmerizing particles because they do make you a little dizzy after awhile, lol. I always use "Z" for my "Switch View" button so after I got tired of looking at it, I'd quickly turn it off, fortunately turning it off and on is so easy that it's really nice. If you want the RPG feeling, leave it on, if you don't, leave it off. Smile

Okay, need some testers to try this out.

If you need a tester, I've got some free time. I could make a smarmy charmy character and have a playthrough finished in a couple days.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:41 am

Zer0Morph wrote:

Actually I don't think you CAN Persuade, Intimidate, or Seduce any of the elders, with the except of a few minor instances like getting the gun from Jack in the tutorial but I put that in, not Troika.
You can persuade a bit more money out of LaCroix. And persuade Strauss to tell you more about the gargoyle. But both require only 5 or so persuasion anyway.

For the generation. According to the files, the player was intended to be 10th generation. But later, generation was left out, and the bloodpool set to 15 regardless.

For dominating the pc, I tend to think that LaCroix and the player are the same generation. That explains why early in the game the player can be dominated. But later, when they are more confident and have lost all respect for the prince, they can resist.

Jack talks about being pushed by vampires with a week of seniority. But I think it's meant as a general statement, not with someone specific in mind. And Therese is as much an "elder" as any of the others.
But honestly. Who but Beckett and Jack can really be called an elder?

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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:48 am

Zer0Morph wrote:
Dragatus wrote:
The thing is I want to be able to make my own decisions. And suffer the appropriate consequences. It's called roleplaying.

You'll want to play a game with a better engine then, and a true SDK. I can't rescript the engine so I'm limited to what I can offer you guys, so I do the best I can with what I got. I try to make the decisions on these systems, public, to get the majority vote and implement it.
If we had the voice actors available, we could create new lines for stupid people who try to use disciplines on "elders" in Elysium...

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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:41 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Jack talks about being pushed by vampires with a week of seniority. But I think it's meant as a general statement, not with someone specific in mind. And Therese is as much an "elder" as any of the others.
But honestly. Who but Beckett and Jack can really be called an elder?

This ^^

Other than Becket, Jack, and don't forget Akeem... he's 400 years old and from the Middle East.

Childe of Malkav wrote:
If we had the voice actors available, we could create new lines for stupid people who try to use disciplines on "elders" in Elysium...

Oh and believe me, I would! I was thinking about adding a Salubri line for Silvia Black like "Hey, my mentor has the same scar on his forehead too." or something like that, if you are Salubri. The amazing things we could do had we the voice actors to do it.
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malak
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:50 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:

But honestly. Who but Beckett and Jack can really be called an elder?
The guy in the gorilla suit comes to mind, he is a complete mystery. Andrei has a decent chance of being an elder as well. A dumb one, but still.
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:50 am

The Sheriff uses Vicissitude 6 (Chiropteran Marauder) so he must be at least 7th generation.
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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:12 am

Dragatus wrote:
The Sheriff uses Vicissitude 6 (Chiropteran Marauder) so he must be at least 7th generation.
Granted. But that doesn't reveal any info on his actual age. Or have I missed a law that states: 6th generation vampires may not sire after the 16th century?

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PostSubject: Re: New Presence system in TFN 1.4   Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:27 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Dragatus wrote:
The Sheriff uses Vicissitude 6 (Chiropteran Marauder) so he must be at least 7th generation.
Granted. But that doesn't reveal any info on his actual age. Or have I missed a law that states: 6th generation vampires may not sire after the 16th century?

They could, of course. They are mostly too old and jaded to ever do it, though.
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