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Maxus Corvin
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PostSubject: Bloodlines Antitribu   Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:38 pm

For various reasons, I find myself less likely to bash this than most, if only because I think that if nothing else, it can be salvaged. Truthfully, I think the same route as TFN, CQM and likely the UP should have been taken with Antitribu, and that would be to start off with perhaps changing the clans and such, and some of the intro, and making that the v1.0. Then gradually more could be added, along with reported bugs being fixed. The problem the mod has now is that with the release after five years, the mod's problems are showing up quickly, especially ones that while possible in other mods or the UP, the problem has likely been fixed there, while Antitribu still has the issue.

Some things I can't fault the mod for. Some mistakes are going to be made. But there are some small things I find frustrating, if only because I've dealt with similar problems with mods for games like Oblivion, but with those there are likely no one to fix the issue, and I was loathe to attempt to fix it myself. At least with this, I have the hope that the issues I've heard of and seen are fixed at some point.

Now onto the actual content. Granted, I tend to have the mindset that, while it certainly is best to follow the lore of the existing work that you are basing the game on, in some cases, what would work in the tabletop game just is not going to work in the game. Though that doesn't mean that one of the first things in the game that concerns this gets off easy. The clan weaknesses are not too far off from what they should be, although again, given that it is a game, you cannot just expect every single lore-friendly weakness to work. Like mods for TES that force the player to eat, drink, and sleep on a regular basis. Some like these types of mods, but others will find them a waste of time, since it can interfere with the existing game(if I get Skyrim, I would either stay far away from FrostFall, or use it with extreme settings changes. Why? I KNOW what that kind of COLD weather feels like.) - mostly in the "Well, I would run of and fight the dragon that could attack the city, but I'm tired..." sort of way. The way Troika implemented the weaknesses for the Camarilla clans in vanilla usually gets a free pass, because WW likely approved of it. Nothing wrong with that. Only with Antitribu, the weaknesses for the changed clans are, some not too bad, others rather like knee-jerk reactions to the lore correct weaknesses. A lot of these problems with the weaknesses can be fixed(like making the Hunters that come after the Lasombra much smarter, i.e attack you in places that are out of the way, to try and catch you off guard, rather than just able to run into a building and avoid them). Same for the Tzimisce weakness, where some obvious changes can be made so it isn't a hassle to deal with the issue.

There are a few things in the mod that are a simple matter of taste, which I can't judge too harshly. Most of the music is not to my taste, although that doesn't apply to all of it. Some of the added puzzles to places like the Warrens and the Hallowbrook(which is a much longer segment), are interesting. The way the Library is handled, I did some serious thinking to get through it, namely one little puzzle that I thought impossible, but then I thought of something I'd seen on the way in - and it worked. Same for the Warrens, where it took me some time, but I figured it out.

And with that out of the way...as perhaps might be usual...in with the fool, in with something true. Willing to listen?

Too many pancakes.
The Pancakes? Good. The thought of having to eat them all? Sickening.

Thank Caine, I an not that ugly.
What? Would a Tzimsice not consider herself beautiful?

Two girls. One flesh eater.
The joke is there. Figure it out.

Loading Screen
Has a few frames of animation. Interesting, if nothing else.

Next up - a new segment: Putting on the Inquisition, vs Putting on the...

These are but flesh and faith. I am of blood and shadow.
Maybe the ego comes with the blood? Or is it the uniform?

This is why these men are dangerous.
They pack far too much heat for little young me.

I am NOT going to pose.
Best not to ask how I got the camera to work for her.

How does one fight a shadow?
Up close and personal.

You faith will not shield you from this...
Interesting power. +5 to soak pools and does damage to enemies nearby.

I truly wonder if any other outcome was expected.
Of course not!

Leg it.
Certainly would not want to shoulder it.

And lastly, the point that those screenshots bring up. I saw a thread on the Antitribu forms that had one person finding a massive problem with that outfit for the lasombra. I do not have the same issue. Regardless of the suggestion that the Lasombra believes in that rhetoric, I do not think it means such a thing. Really, I don't care for the ideology, but the aesthetic is one I like. Pity it stands for something like that.
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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:18 am

You're talking about he SS uniform? For me anybody who wears (or makes others wear) nazi symbols without good reason is a bloody fascist asshole. No further discussion necessary.

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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:40 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:
You're talking about he SS uniform? For me anybody who wears (or makes others wear) nazi symbols without good reason is a bloody fascist asshole. No further discussion necessary.

I don't see what's wrong with a decidedly inhuman monster wearing a nazi uniform in a fictional story. Also, unless I'm mistaken I believe that many tzimisce and lasombra were actively involved in the WoD version of the holocaust.

I find it odd that a recently human fledgling would suddenly adopt this ideology though, and that is a valid criticism. However, blindly saying that any nazi imagery in a video game makes the person who put it in a fascist is not.
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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:56 am

Griff wrote:
Childe of Malkav wrote:
You're talking about he SS uniform? For me anybody who wears (or makes others wear) nazi symbols without good reason is a bloody fascist asshole. No further discussion necessary.

I find it odd that a recently human fledgling would suddenly adopt this ideology though, and that is a valid criticism. However, blindly saying that any nazi imagery in a video game makes the person who put it in a fascist is not.
I didn't say any. I said "without good reason". If a film or game plays at the time, or if the story requires a charcter to be a nazi, that's ok with me. But if it's only done because, why?? It looks good? Then the one doing it is either a fascist or terminally stupid. That is my opinion. And I stand by it.

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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:59 am

Whatever other fault the Nazis had, they had so much style with their outfits. It's a shame it's linked to one of the most evil regimes in history to date in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:01 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Griff wrote:
Childe of Malkav wrote:
You're talking about he SS uniform? For me anybody who wears (or makes others wear) nazi symbols without good reason is a bloody fascist asshole. No further discussion necessary.

I find it odd that a recently human fledgling would suddenly adopt this ideology though, and that is a valid criticism. However, blindly saying that any nazi imagery in a video game makes the person who put it in a fascist is not.
I didn't say any. I said "without good reason". If a film or game plays at the time, or if the story requires a charcter to be a nazi, that's ok with me. But if it's only done because, why?? It looks good? Then the one doing it is either a fascist or terminally stupid. That is my opinion. And I stand by it.

Fair enough mate, I see what you're saying.
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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:21 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Griff wrote:
Childe of Malkav wrote:
You're talking about he SS uniform? For me anybody who wears (or makes others wear) nazi symbols without good reason is a bloody fascist asshole. No further discussion necessary.

I find it odd that a recently human fledgling would suddenly adopt this ideology though, and that is a valid criticism. However, blindly saying that any nazi imagery in a video game makes the person who put it in a fascist is not.
I didn't say any. I said "without good reason". If a film or game plays at the time, or if the story requires a charcter to be a nazi, that's ok with me. But if it's only done because, why?? It looks good? Then the one doing it is either a fascist or terminally stupid. That is my opinion. And I stand by it.

I feel inclined to agree.

That being said, Heinrich Himmler is still a Tremere. Antitribu, but considered loyal by the main Clan... And gaining ranks quite fast... Poor Clan Tremere...
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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:46 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
I didn't say any. I said "without good reason". If a film or game plays at the time, or if the story requires a charcter to be a nazi, that's ok with me. But if it's only done because, why?? It looks good? Then the one doing it is either a fascist or terminally stupid. That is my opinion. And I stand by it.

I believe you would be talking about Marvin in this case, putting nazi uniforms on his models for no reason other than "it's cool". Well, because, you know, Nazi's are cool when your 21 years old. Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:18 pm

Feral wrote:

That being said, Heinrich Himmler is still a Tremere. Antitribu, but considered loyal by the main Clan... And gaining ranks quite fast... Poor Clan Tremere...
Ah. That explains why the SS was so keen on marching with torches in the night. So their leader could attend.

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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:29 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Feral wrote:

That being said, Heinrich Himmler is still a Tremere. Antitribu, but considered loyal by the main Clan... And gaining ranks quite fast... Poor Clan Tremere...
Ah. That explains why the SS was so keen on marching with torches in the night. So their leader could attend.

LOL Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:38 pm

I do agree with Maxus there though. There are some interesting points made. Not saying the were performed well to perfection, but why can't we have more stuff to wear? Cloths and the like help us to individualise our character. Something that is great for RPing. If it maybe gives a small bonus here and there. Why not?

Also, why can't I play a techhead that likes to blow up things. Let him require research 8 or whateverto make certain toyss. That adds options as well.

I know that enraged brujahs are hard to convince, but not everything is bad in there. Again Lenuska and folks did put some tremendous time in it. With proper guidance, I do think they would greatly benefit any bloodlines project.
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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:16 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Feral wrote:

That being said, Heinrich Himmler is still a Tremere. Antitribu, but considered loyal by the main Clan... And gaining ranks quite fast... Poor Clan Tremere...
Ah. That explains why the SS was so keen on marching with torches in the night. So their leader could attend.

Naw... By Wiki, he was Embraced in April 1945. It had to be a night: burning city all around, Soviet troops already in. Hard house to house fighting. In all of this, Clan Tremere did mess up...
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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:28 pm

Almost feel like this was a mistake, and much I would have to say about it...may not diffuse the situation. My stance on the issue is that I...well, saying I do not care is not exactly it. I can see why some would take issue with it, even in spite of the lore saying it at least might make sense. However, if it were even partly my choice on what to do for the Lasombra's attire, I might not have even arrived at this exact conclusion. But I can see why, with a combination of lore, and the constraints of having to retexture a model, why this one might be used for a uniform like that. Plus, I know why the more obvious detail isn't there - it would have to be on both arms, given that there is only one portion of the texture used for the sleeves. Just so it isn't thought that the Lasombra goes for that angle completely....

Lasombra Female Armor 3

A bit more like what I would have expected for such a character. What I would not, is for the Followers of Set. Now this is an entirely different thing, which hopefully such a divergence is warranted and welcome. Still, even if I can see the mindset behind this, it, like the music, is not to my taste. Obviously these images spoil the Fem Setite's looks.

Female Setite 1st outfit

Okay, that makes sense. She got dressed up to go out that night, and it hints a little. No problems for me there.

Female Setite 2nd outfit

Not what I would have expected, but okay.

Female Setite 3rd outfit

You're Joking. You're Joking, I CANNOT BELIEVE MAH EYAHS. But all seriousness...really? I get it. I do. But....eh.
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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:57 pm

Hm, I might try the mod again if when they have done the necessary dialog updates. But one thing is for sure. I'll revert to the vanilla models, or maybe find some other skins. But not that.

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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:15 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Hm, I might try the mod again if when they have done the necessary dialog updates. But one thing is for sure. I'll revert to the vanilla models, or maybe find some other skins. But not that.

While I would not exactly advocate for the texture to be changed, the idea of offering an alternate version, I would(maybe something more akin to the other Female Lasombra outfits). If only because this leaves it up to players, if they do not mind the uniform as is, or if they would prefer not to wear it.

Oh, and as it may be of interest...the male outfits for the Lasombra? No SS uniform or nothing even close. Not even a hint. His last armor is more Matrix or like that of Dante from Devil May Cry(only with a black coat).
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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:34 pm

I wasn't talking about that uniform. I was talking about all the skins.

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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:17 pm

I have to say that I personally find that Nazi skin in very bad taste. It does not belong in bloodlines
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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:26 pm

I do like the gothic look of the female Lasombra. I don't think it's bad really. Certainly not worse than vanilla female Toreador.
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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:00 am

Yikes. They're taking suggestions for the male Old Clan Tzimisce looks now, and people are saying that they should wear steampunk outfits, or 19th century greatcoats with cravats. Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:07 am

Good thing I know how to replace models, if I ever play again.

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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:14 am

Griff wrote:
Yikes. They're taking suggestions for the male Old Clan Tzimisce looks now, and people are saying that they should wear steampunk outfits, or 19th century greatcoats with cravats. Rolling Eyes

Sad Sad Sad

Guys a couple millenia old wearing XIX centurt outfits...? And the rationale is...?
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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:16 am

Feral wrote:
Griff wrote:
Yikes. They're taking suggestions for the male Old Clan Tzimisce looks now, and people are saying that they should wear steampunk outfits, or 19th century greatcoats with cravats. Rolling Eyes

Sad Sad Sad

Guys a couple millenia old wearing XIX centurt outfits...? And the rationale is...?

Not even that. The player character is still a sireless fledgling embraced last night in Santa Monica.
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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:18 am

Feral wrote:
Griff wrote:
Yikes. They're taking suggestions for the male Old Clan Tzimisce looks now, and people are saying that they should wear steampunk outfits, or 19th century greatcoats with cravats. Rolling Eyes

Sad Sad Sad

Guys a couple millenia old wearing XIX centurt outfits...? And the rationale is...?
Fledgelings, born about 1980 and sired 2004 wear Nazi uniforms... Isn't that reason enough? (why don't we have a vomit smiley?)

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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:11 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
(why don't we have a vomit smiley?)

Yup. We need it. Zer0!!! Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Bloodlines Antitribu   Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:50 pm

I tried getting a special Antitribu emote of a face vomiting all over the place (and on a stranger's shoe in a bathroom), but I couldn't find one... Sad
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