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 University study, Storytelling and games. Tell me your favorite char.

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PGM1961
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PostSubject: Happy time with Grout? I doubt it.   Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:29 am

Velvet said: "my favorite character exists in an alternate universe where you play a malkavian, you get to save grout, grout gets to tell you himself of whom he was so suspicious, grout becomes to you what strauss is to the tremere players, and you get as a haven a room inside grout's mansion."

Yikes! Did you and I listen to the same tapes? At first, the Grout on those tapes might seem like a rational, kind man. But the way he casually mentions acquiring his test subjects, and laments the loss of the old 'insane asylums', where the inmates were treated so inhumanely that it would shock most people today... this is not a kindly old doctor. His insanity is highlighted by his inability to accept the Embrace as a supernatural phenomenon, instead believing that it is a disease, which he can 'cure' if he experiments on enough people. Grout may seem rational for a Malkavian, but if you tried to present him with evidence that his theories are wrong, my bet is that he would have a psychotic episode, and attack the person who challenged his beliefs.

I believe your character would be more likely to end up as one of Grout's test subjects, rather than his protege. If I were playing a character in a game based on VtMB, Grout would be more frightening to me than nearly any other kindred in 'Bloodlines'.
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PGM1961
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PostSubject: Re: University study, Storytelling and games. Tell me your favorite char.   Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:40 am

My favorite quests were the Ocean House, and Grout's Mansion. After several years, I still remember how the hairs stood up on the back of my neck the first time I went through the Ocean House. And the tape players in Grout's mansion, giving insight into the mind of a Malkavian elder, were fascinating. I still play all of the tapes when I run through Grout's loonybin of a house.

As for my favorite characters, I'd have to say Fat Larry and Smiling Jack. The guy who did LaCroix's voice was an excellent voice actor, and he brought to life what would otherwise have been a rather predictable character. But Fat Larry sounds exactly like a black guy I used to work with... similar morals, too. Smile And Jack, who was voiced by the same guy who played the robot 'Bender' on Futurama, is just a joy to listen to.
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Velvet
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PostSubject: Re: University study, Storytelling and games. Tell me your favorite char.   Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:29 am

PGM
i disagree
funny that grout's scientific logic and rationality is the delusion in the fantastic legendary world of VTM, han?
but i think that rationality grounds him, he is sufficiently self aware, conscious, to prevent flying into psychotic fits, and he does the test of reality of his convictions, he compares and places his convictions in the background of the rest of the world's in general and the vampire world's in particular convictions.
and it is the paradox of rationality and delusion, and the insanity held in check by consciousness, that fascinates me in him.
plus i am inclined to agree with him on some topics.
phrenology, the science that allows you to infer the personality and character of someone through the shape of his cranium, seems to me to be on to something. when scientists do CAT and MRI scans of fossil skulls of extinct animals to guess at their abilities, like dominant senses and ability of abstract intelligence, they are doing just that.
for a while people believed in developmental factors like childhood abuse for schyzophreny, now they are taking a step back and consigning it to an unknown physiological factor, no better than Jung's toxicity.
feeling himself threatened by a high level vampire, and the whispers of his voices having a paranoid content, that could make him suspicious to the point of being dangerous, but if we did rescue him, well, that would be that.
but all in all he is to me one of the most likeable characters.

perhaps because i identify?
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PostSubject: Re: University study, Storytelling and games. Tell me your favorite char.   Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:42 pm

To me, Grout is a likable sort. Yes, he does experiments on living subjectes. So? I do experiments too. Science is about experiments, and if they cost some suffering on the part of beings being experimented upon... Well, progress doesn't come free. I also admire his detached, logic mind, that he could put distance between him and his study. I agree with him on some topics, too. Somatic side is greatly overlooked in psychology and psychiatry. While purely metabolic conditions, like phenyloketonuria, could cause mental problems. In case of phenyloketonuria it's retardedness, namely. But psychoterapy and Freudian psychoanalisis cures all! Or so psychologists say. No offense to any shrinks present, of course.
And, Velvet, don't get too worried by identifying with Grout
Some of us identify with animals Laughing
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Miguel
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PostSubject: Re: University study, Storytelling and games. Tell me your favorite char.   Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:22 pm

PGM1961 wrote:
My favorite quests were the Ocean House, and Grout's Mansion. After several years, I still remember how the hairs stood up on the back of my neck the first time I went through the Ocean House. And the tape players in Grout's mansion, giving insight into the mind of a Malkavian elder, were fascinating. I still play all of the tapes when I run through Grout's loonybin of a house.

As for my favorite characters, I'd have to say Fat Larry and Smiling Jack. The guy who did LaCroix's voice was an excellent voice actor, and he brought to life what would otherwise have been a rather predictable character. But Fat Larry sounds exactly like a black guy I used to work with... similar morals, too. Smile And Jack, who was voiced by the same guy who played the robot 'Bender' on Futurama, is just a joy to listen to.

here here. The first time I played VTMb (god it's been 6 years already????) I remember jumping more than once in the Ocean house quest. Just the first time you watch the ghost of the girl run pass you and you turn and there's nothing there... Extremely entertaining. I couldn't stop thinking about the movie Shinning... good show that mission was. And someone mentioned a lack of enemies. Well, the first time I played I was actually more nervous not having enemies at all... I mean it was unnerving just to watch things happen. Thinks over which you have no control whatsoever and no one to unload all that tension to by means of an axe between someone's eyes... All the more fun Smile

Grout mansion is another very well thought of mansion... The first time I listened to the tapes was also magical. I think he's character on which more is told. We can actually be his companions on his descent to madness... listening to the last tapes one could be talking of Mendel or Pol-Pot or any other, in the words of Eddy Izzard, "Mass-murdering f*** head". He has all the traits in him... Amazing.

Another quest I'm very fond of is getting to Pisha. the first time I did it I was always watching my back because I thought that I would be the target of attack very, very soon. And in my opinion Pisha seems to be more of the disappointed and self-loathing type. the way she refers to herself as the "twice-cursed" and the emphasis the actress performing the voice does on certain parts of her speech seem to indicate some, well, self-loathing... One thing I was sorry when I finished the game the second time (not the first time since in my first time I greeted pisha with a shotgun blast on her face) is that Becket and Pisha never met. The perfect place would be when Becket is examining the Sarcophagus.
Becket always seemed kind of plain to me. I get the feeling that there's nothing else there. He just studies history and kindred lore because... Pisha in that sense is much, much deeper (or at least I get that feeling) she always seems to be scheming.




Cheers...
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Velvet
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PostSubject: Re: University study, Storytelling and games. Tell me your favorite char.   Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:54 am

Miguel
(and others, sorry for the seemingly new agey drivel)
i think Pisha has managed to alchemically convert the lead of her self loathing into the gold of wisdom
what i mean is, coming to terms with her self loathing is indeed her driving force,
but such a negative feeling, self loathing, has become the fuel of the engine that powers her down very positive roads, the quest for knowledge, that would in the end grant her wisdom, a measure of self acceptance.
people driven by self loathing fall down dark paths, loathing everyone else, violent and aggressive roads.
she follows the bright path of the quest for knowledge, and strives to be as acceptant of others as she tries to be of herself.

and
what did happen when you shot her?
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Miguel
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PostSubject: Re: University study, Storytelling and games. Tell me your favorite char.   Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:23 am

Velvet wrote:
Miguel
(and others, sorry for the seemingly new agey drivel)
i think Pisha has managed to alchemically convert the lead of her self loathing into the gold of wisdom
what i mean is, coming to terms with her self loathing is indeed her driving force,
but such a negative feeling, self loathing, has become the fuel of the engine that powers her down very positive roads, the quest for knowledge, that would in the end grant her wisdom, a measure of self acceptance.
people driven by self loathing fall down dark paths, loathing everyone else, violent and aggressive roads.
she follows the bright path of the quest for knowledge, and strives to be as acceptant of others as she tries to be of herself.

and
what did happen when you shot her?

velvet, she is a flesh eating vampire... How much darker can a road get? :p
Now seriously, I don't think she is as accepting as you make her. I think deep down she still suffers a lot from her predicament...
Agsin, I'm basing this on her dialogues and because of the way she addresses herself. I actually think (as said on a previous post) that she wants to try and revert her condition and her self.loathing is the only way she can maintain her humanity. It's not just the "I have to kill because I must eat" thing. I think she revolts and pities herself.

when I shot her, well, she died... as jack says, "shotgun blast to the head? Real trouble!" Or something of the sort Smile



Cheers...
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Velvet
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PostSubject: Re: University study, Storytelling and games. Tell me your favorite char.   Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:22 am

well yes
her slim hope of reverting her condition drives her search of knowledge
but aren't you agreeing with me?
plus being a self eating demon is a condition, not a road
it's how she goes about being a flesh eating demon that is her road
and as i said you are agreeing with me
using something dark, her self loathing, to power something good, her grasp on her humanity.
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8people
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PostSubject: Re: University study, Storytelling and games. Tell me your favorite char.   Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:58 pm

Apart from the fact Pisha is not on the Via Humanitas?

From her demeanor (and a few notes on her design) she's on a Path, not Humanity. My deductions would be Path of Death and the Soul most likely, possibly Bones.
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Velvet
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PostSubject: Re: University study, Storytelling and games. Tell me your favorite char.   Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:09 am

i know next to nothing of the mythologies of WoD.
i am inclined to agree, though.
the point i am trying to make is, she is not a slave to her condition nor does she let it become an excuse to engage in imoral behavior, like say the sabat, but she does try to be on some path, spiritual path, philosophical path, and her material quest for objects pertaining to death is a reflection of that.
my point is, in some self hate translates into other hate, with her not.
and i do not consider her a monster.
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PGM1961
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PostSubject: Re: Tell me your favorite char.   Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:50 pm

Velvet wrote:
i do not consider her a monster.

'Monster' is a relative term. I think Pisha has a fairly high ranking in whatever Path she is on, which translates to a very moral being, from her standpoint. But to humans, she's a monster.
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Shabutaro
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PostSubject: Re: University study, Storytelling and games. Tell me your favorite char.   Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:34 am

well my fav char is probably Tourette, basicly cuz of the split personalty and the diffrence between Therese and Jeanette. Also the Ocean House is my fav quest. I just loved this real creepy house (well i got a liking to it when i first played vtmb and i was like 12.. this quest scared the sh*t out of me Smile). But back to Tourette: I would love if they would have more appearrances and play a bigger role than only the beginning.. maybe sth like how they can split into 2 bodies and based on the beginning quest with them they will join various sides like you choose to let Jeanette live and she joins the Anarchs side or let both live, but they still hate each other so Therese goes Camarilla and Jeanette goes Anarchs or both live and they love each other so they get independent and try to crush all and rule LA etc.etc. Smile
sry for my bad english and yes i often forget to write in capitals cuz i am not that often in Forums
Shabu
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