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 TFN Rocks! ... and a small suggestion

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ScreamingDoom
Fledgling
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PostSubject: TFN Rocks! ... and a small suggestion   Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:12 am

Wow, I just found this mod and am really impressed. Excellent work! It's really jaw dropping.

I haven't had too much time to play with it just yet, but a thought did cross my mind in regards to Humanity. I apologize if this isn't the right place to put such a message (my thoughts were either here or in the section regarding game mechanics); please move it to where ever it should be if that's the case.

As it stands, it doesn't seem like there's much use in having Humanity above 6 beyond a small help to the Frenzy check. Considering that Humanity 9 is like Disney Princess level and Humanity 10 is Vampire Jesus, it'd be nice if those levels had some kind of additional benefit. Even something as small as an additional 30 seconds to the blood timer would be nice. It's difficult to get and maintain such high levels of Humanity so I think the player should get some level of extra reward for it.

This leaves a nice "dead zone" in the middle between 6 and 8 where there isn't much benefit to Humanity, so the player really has to consider if the extra time on blood loss is worth spending the XP and/or reducing the rewards for being a selfish asshole in quests. Since Humanity that high is so difficult to maintain in TFN, there is a real cost-benefit calculation here; you can't just do a bunch of the low reward quests that give Humanity and call it a day. A player will have to consistently behave in accordance of high Humanity to keep it above the 8 level threshold.

As an aside, I know there are special dialog options if a character has very low humanity; are there ones for very high? I've not noted them if so and if not, that could be an interesting additional benefit to be added later.
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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Rocks! ... and a small suggestion   Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:23 pm

This is an interesting idea and I'd like to hear what the rest of the community thinks about this idea. Thanks Scream and welcome to the TCI forums!! Smile
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MxM
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Rocks! ... and a small suggestion   Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:58 pm

ScreamingDoom wrote:
Wow, I just found this mod and am really impressed. Excellent work! It's really jaw dropping.

I haven't had too much time to play with it just yet, but a thought did cross my mind in regards to Humanity. I apologize if this isn't the right place to put such a message (my thoughts were either here or in the section regarding game mechanics); please move it to where ever it should be if that's the case.

As it stands, it doesn't seem like there's much use in having Humanity above 6 beyond a small help to the Frenzy check. Considering that Humanity 9 is like Disney Princess level and Humanity 10 is Vampire Jesus, it'd be nice if those levels had some kind of additional benefit. Even something as small as an additional 30 seconds to the blood timer would be nice. It's difficult to get and maintain such high levels of Humanity so I think the player should get some level of extra reward for it.

This leaves a nice "dead zone" in the middle between 6 and 8 where there isn't much benefit to Humanity, so the player really has to consider if the extra time on blood loss is worth spending the XP and/or reducing the rewards for being a selfish asshole in quests. Since Humanity that high is so difficult to maintain in TFN, there is a real cost-benefit calculation here; you can't just do a bunch of the low reward quests that give Humanity and call it a day. A player will have to consistently behave in accordance of high Humanity to keep it above the 8 level threshold.

As an aside, I know there are special dialog options if a character has very low humanity; are there ones for very high? I've not noted them if so and if not, that could be an interesting additional benefit to be added later.
Welcome to the forum Very Happy
I do like the idea, it makes sense.
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ScreamingDoom
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Rocks! ... and a small suggestion   Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:46 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Thanks Scream and welcome to the TCI forums!! Smile
MxM wrote:
Welcome to the forum

Thank you both kindly! Smile

Zer0Morph, this is a bit off topic but I find my curiosity peaked: is there any limit to the clans that can be added to the game? I ask because you removed the original clans and I wondered if that was done because there's a hard limit of seven clans in the engine or the drop down box doesn't have scroll capability or something.
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Feral
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Rocks! ... and a small suggestion   Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:51 pm

I like the idea real much. It may even prod me towards playing a high Humanity character. Normally it is more of Via Beastie... Twisted Evil

A shock, no?

But yes, knowing there are rewards/alternatives on the compassionate end as they are on the ruthless one may encourage many to try...

And welcome to the forum, youngblood! We like fresh Vitae here... *licks snout*
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wesp5
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Rocks! ... and a small suggestion   Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:54 pm

ScreamingDoom wrote:
I wondered if that was done because there's a hard limit of seven clans in the engine or the drop down box doesn't have scroll capability or something.

I think it's exactly like this...
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ScreamingDoom
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Rocks! ... and a small suggestion   Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:52 pm

Feral wrote:
But yes, knowing there are rewards/alternatives on the compassionate end as they are on the ruthless one may encourage many to try...

True enough! Another idea I had is that if a character has high enough Humanity, the general Hunters that are spawned due to Masquerade breaches may overlook them. After all, if you're so adept at being human as to be Vampire Jesus, you're probably not exhibiting the signs of being Undead that Hunters are trained to spot. That may not be technically possible or simply too much of a game balance issue, though.

Quote :
And welcome to the forum, youngblood! We like fresh Vitae here... *licks snout*

Eep! You wouldn't like my vitae! It's watery and full of spiders!

But thanks for the sentiment anyway. Smile

wesp5 wrote:
I think it's exactly like this...

Aww, that's a real shame. I love the new clans (I'm having great fun with a Setite right now), but I know I'll eventually want to return to the original Cammy clans. It'd be great to play with the TFN enhancements as I understand Camerilla Edition is no longer being maintained and doesn't have all the game changes that TFN adds.

Maybe I could create a "patch" to TFN that restores the original clans so that people who want TFN goodness with the original seven could do so? Hmm... would anyone be interested in such a thing, even?
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Rocks! ... and a small suggestion   Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:29 am

ScreamingDoom wrote:


Eep! You wouldn't like my vitae! It's watery and full of spiders!

But thanks for the sentiment anyway. Smile
Sounds like a thinblood with a malkavian sire. But welcome anyway. I don't believe in the Antediluvians waking up will cause Gehenna. I've woken up every night for the last few millenia and Gehenna hasn't happened. So thinbloods are ok with me.

For additional clans, there are two problems. One is that the selection menu has no scrolling capability. So if you have more than seven clans, only the first seven will show up in the menu. Well it is possible to circumvent this problem if you make the other clans accessible by these stupid questions or in a similar way. But that still leaves the more important problem: The game allows only 13 disciplines.

Quote :
Aww, that's a real shame. I love the new clans (I'm having great fun with a Setite right now), but I know I'll eventually want to return to the original Cammy clans. It'd be great to play with the TFN enhancements as I understand Camerilla Edition is no longer being maintained and doesn't have all the game changes that TFN adds.
Even if I did still work on Camarilla Edition, it would not get the TFN mechanics because I don't like them.

For your question about humanity texts in dialogs, mostly there is the hum 6 threshold. Below you get the more mean reply, above the more civilized one. But in most cases it has no or only little influence on the rest of the dialog or the game in general.

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wesp5
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Rocks! ... and a small suggestion   Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:18 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:

Even if I did still work on Camarilla Edition, it would not get the TFN mechanics because I don't like them.

Just out of interest as I haven't TFN much besides checking out some of the new content, what new mechanics are there that you don't like which are not in the CE? I always thought the continuous blood loss was the thing most players either hate or love...
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Rocks! ... and a small suggestion   Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:58 am

wesp5 wrote:
Childe of Malkav wrote:

Even if I did still work on Camarilla Edition, it would not get the TFN mechanics because I don't like them.

Just out of interest as I haven't TFN much besides checking out some of the new content, what new mechanics are there that you don't like which are not in the CE? I always thought the continuous blood loss was the thing most players either hate or love...
The thing about TFN I like the least is that nearly everything concerning money is controlled by the haggle feat. Ok, I do the same in my mod too, but Zer0 does it to an extent that haggle becomes the most important feat. We could discuss this for hours on end. But this discussion has already taken place, so I'll leave it at that.

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wesp5
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Rocks! ... and a small suggestion   Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:39 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Ok, I do the same in my mod too, but Zer0 does it to an extent that haggle becomes the most important feat.

Hm, I think I wouldn't like that either. I played the original Bloodlines as a shooter but I can't remember having that much issues with money...
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Rocks! ... and a small suggestion   Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:32 pm

I know Malkav and I don't see eye to eye on how Haggle is handled in TFN, kind of like how I don't like the email college personally, I like the books better. But you know what, that's okay, we both bring something special to the community in our own way and share resources always so we still make a great team! Smile

On another note, I agree with ScreamingDoom that having a TFN with the original 7 Camarilla Clans would be awesome and I'd play it definitely! There's days where I really miss Dominate and Animalism, however it would be a huge undertaking putting everything back, then rewriting the backgrounds to fit the new clans, and the endless dialogue file adjustments would be a nightmare! LOL
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Rocks! ... and a small suggestion   Today at 7:27 pm

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