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 The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)

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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:22 pm

Dear bloodsuckers,

With Halloween being here tomorrow and the weather getting cold and spooky, I wanted to take a moment to address the current state of The Final Nights mod. Version 1.3 was released back on Feb. 5 of this year along with hotfix 1.3.1 a few days later, but since then nothing has really been mentioned. Some of the major new features included the introduction of the female Assamite character, the new background story system, and a major hacking and lockpicking overhaul. I personally loved the new changes and received a lot of positive feedback, however there were many additional features I wanted to bring to you back in February but didn't have enough time.

After the release of 1.3 I began to get that feeling of being burned out on Bloodlines and began playing Skyrim for a few months upgrading my gaming PC in the process. After that I began playing Civilization V around July, and then in September began increasing my rank in League of Legends. As the seasons began to change I got the ever so familiar gnawing feeling of TFN in my gut. I started logging into this site and our ModDB page to get re-acquainted with the community.

I would like to start modding TFN again however League of Legends Season 5 doesn't end until November 11th so I think I want to stick it out until it's over. At that time, I'll have all the time in the world to really dedicate my time to finishing up 1.4 and start asking for Beta Testers. 1.4 will obviously have many new futures and game changes but this release will contain something extra special. Finally, freaking finally I have designed an official game manual for TFN that includes EVERYTHING you need to know to play it. From game mechanic changes, to Q&As, to the weapon breakdowns, clans, disciplines, how to install, strategies, etc... I mean this thing is huge! Up until now, fans wanted to get their questions answered had to login here and fumble around multiple sites to get their answers, and even then sometimes they still were confused. Hopefully this game manual will fix that flaw. Will people read it? I think so, and if they ask questions here that are already explained in the manual, we can refer them to it. "Did you read the manual?" Wink

"So what's going to be in 1.4?"
Here's the quick snapshot of the bug fixes and features of 1.4 currently. This list is subject to change but for now, I'm pretty happy with it.

Bug Fixes
- Changed starting money amount
- Akeem's model now has proper physics applied
- Removed buggy cop in Empire Arms Hotel
- Changed inspection occult items to avoid duplicates with quest givers
- Changed Assamite Vizier to proper clan logo in character sheet
- Removed Presence, Auspex, and Fortitude first person view emitter
- Fixed Online Bank Hacking bug where you wouldn't receive money
- Beachhouse and Gimble's basement stay unlocked after quest completion
- Key of Alamut occult item not using the proper trait effect
- Normal fists are removed if player has Fang of Vukodlak after shapeshifting
- Apep's claws and Fiery fists no longer show in the inventory
- Created prostitute trigger for pier hooker
- Fixed no hands bug in tutorial
- Raised damage of the Bush Hook and Nodachi
- Improved Akeem's lip movements (Thanks DDLullu)
- Fixed Lily's cutscene for female models (Thanks DDLullu)
- Fixed Silvia's black bar on facial model (Thanks DDLullu)
- Fixed Flynn's eye issue on facial model (Thanks DDLullu)

New Content
- Clan Followers of Set are now the Warriors of Set
- Created "For the Greater Good" side quest for all clans
- Can blackmail Gary with a photo for a new powerful occult item
- Presence 3-5 influences NPCs during dialogue (No blood required)
- Presence duration reduced to balance with new dialogue ability
- Items will not appear without appropriate Inspection level for all maps
- Auspex now reveals hidden items in real-time
- Auspex duration reduced to balance with new reveal ability
- Created progressive particle effect for Auspex and redesigned visuals/sound
- New items have been placed on all maps for new Inspection System
- Trip now sells a bottle of Morphine
- Malcolm and his patient leave when Heather does
- Silvia Black sends email to the player upon arriving in Santa Monica
- Pisha's fetish items require Inspection 4 to see
- Bertram's CD requires Inspection 7 to see
- Fang of Vukodlak is cursed and cannot be removed once worn
- Restored all PC models for introduction scene
- Use Inspection 4 to uncover Gimble's plot and earn XP
- Changed eyes for Osebo and Samedi models
- Persuasion was changed to Inspection to reveal information on the Gargoyle
- Rebalanced experience gain
- Rebalanced Haggle money rewards
- Occult items resell value 75% of base value
- New music for ending credits

The focus of TFN 1.4 are the two discipline overhauls for Presence and Auspex. These 2 disciplines have been changed so drastically that using them will completely change your overall strategy. Not only are they effective in combat situations but also provide a large amount of utility that the other disciplines don't have. Another major change was done to the Followers of Set clan. They are no longer Followers but rather Warriors; having their Obfuscate discipline swapped out for Potence, these guys are still charming but can easily go aggressive if needed.

Another game changing design was the overhaul to overall experience gain. In short, it was nerfed. I haven't touched the experience gain at the beginning of the game but a slight reduction in the mid game was performed and a major reduction in the late game was also implemented. We found that experience in the late game was given too freely, almost to the point of having too much so this change will drive for a more realistic end game experience. To put in plainly, you won't be swimming in experience at the end like you were before. Along with this nerf to experience we also nerfed the amount of money given to the player from the Haggle feat. We heard many complaints that Haggle was too powerful and gave the player too much money, almost to the point that the player was dependent on this feat. We listened and so Haggle has been toned down a little so the player is no longer swimming in cash at the end game.

"When will 1.4 be released?"
I don't have a set date yet but I'm shooting for some time in January. December IS a possibility and it really depends on how much Beta Testing support I can get. The balance changes are a bit more involved this time around so I really want to focus on that so I'll need a team with time on their hands to play the game with the changes and give me feedback on how they feel the balance lies.

"You said Beta Testing, how do I sign up for that?"
I'll be following the same pattern as with previous releases and you should see a sign up sheet later in November.

"Will my name be in the credits if I Beta Test?"
Of course... if you actually contribute, Yes!

Alright kiddies, that's all I've got for now. Ask me any questions you have below and in the meantime, HAPPY HALLOWEEN!! bounce


Last edited by Zer0Morph on Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:18 pm

Sounds exciting! I'm not sure whether I'll be able to beta test, since my job still sucks out all my energy, but I'm definitely going to ask whether you'd like me to proofread and edit the manual. Seeing how the changes I made to the new Histories were well-received, I think it'd be a good thing to offer. Other than that, I'm looking forward to TFN 1.4. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:25 pm

I hope I finish my damned thesis and have time to beta test... No promises, though.
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:26 pm

Eliza wrote:
Sounds exciting! I'm not sure whether I'll be able to beta test, since my job still sucks out all my energy, but I'm definitely going to ask whether you'd like me to proofread and edit the manual. Seeing how the changes I made to the new Histories were well-received, I think it'd be a good thing to offer. Other than that, I'm looking forward to TFN 1.4. Smile

No problem Eliza, and yes I would love for you to proof read the game manual before I publicly release it. The only problem I have with it right now is the dark background and the light text, it makes it hard on your eyes to read for long periods because of the contrast. It looks nice, but gives me headaches.

Feral wrote:
I hope I finish my damned thesis and have time to beta test... No promises, though.

No problem wolfy, just do what you can, when you can, how you can. And always remember to raise your middle paw! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:21 pm

There will be the new dialogs (and NPC's reactions) for each new Clan/Bloodline?
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:40 pm

Unlikely given the problem with implimenting new dialogue; changing texts is one thing but there are no voice actors available or such. Gotta take what you can get from a fan-made mod. Sufficed to say I look forward to seeing this in play; I might just get a playthrough or two down with the new stuff in here if I'm lucky cheers

Come to think of it, where are the news on that thing Malkav was working on? Explain yourself wherever you're hiding scratch
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:13 am

I hope I can beta test!
Oh wait
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:25 am

Zer0Morph wrote:
Dear bloodsuckers,

I would like to start modding TFN again however League of Legends Season 5 doesn't end until November 11th so I think I want to stick it out until it's over.

League of Legends? Oh how the mighty have fallen.
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:58 am

Cretino wrote:
I hope I can beta test!

I hope too.
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:26 pm

Tony77 wrote:
There will be the new dialogs (and NPC's reactions) for each new Clan/Bloodline?

Karavolos pretty much summed it up, sorry Tony. The only way to get new dialogues for NPCs would be to ask the original actors to record additional lines... for free.

ThePhilosopher wrote:


League of Legends? Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Oh stop, it's a fun silly game. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:47 am

Is XP really that much of a problem? I mean... on my first 2 playthroughs I actually had to use cheats in the end so I could see what Level 5 Disciplines look like (then I loaded back earlier save to finish the game normally).

Not that XP gain would affect me since on later playthroughs... I actually treated those as NG+ and would cheat stats to get them where they were when I finished the game, but yeah... since you're playing the game alone you don't have any party members to cover up for your lacking stats and if you do want to max out disciplines you're severely lacking in pretty much everything else, considering the fact that unlike regular RPGs you can't grind here for XP...
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:26 am

It depends what you want from the game. Some people like to have powerful characters that unlocked all abilities. Others value having to make meaningful decisions how to invest their hard earned XP. It looks to me like you're in the former group and Zer0 is in the latter.

Personally I think it's going to be a good change. Because it'll be harder to unlock all the things you'd want, it's going to make each character more unique.
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:51 am

I understand that, but limiting XP also limits players from playing that [mine] style too.

You can always opt not to use up all XP or put it in something useless (like for me... Haggle was useless, since I opt for melee builds always) if you really want to limit yourself that much, but if you don't have XP in the first place you're only limited to one option.
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:01 pm

Garlik,

You bring up a valid point and I think Draggy described the two types perfectly, putting me in the latter group of having to make meaningful decisions with your hard earned XP. I know from personal experience of playing TFN over and over again that I had the most fun when I couldn't unlock every safe, or hack every bank account, or pick every lock, or persuade every NPC. When I finished TFN knowing that I missed some things due to not having the XP to "get the loot" or money to buy an occult item, it encouraged me to play through again so I could get what I missed. This of course is a min/maxer's nightmare which I'm okay with.

I think a good role-playing game is one where you "play a role" and are forced to make very hard decisions on what direction you want to take your character knowing that you have to leave something behind in the process. To be strong in THIS, you have to be weak in THAT, or you can take the "Jack of all Trades but master of none" approach with no strengths but no discernible weaknesses.

I think TFN 1.4 will be a shock to some players who are used to having their character fed with a silver spoon. Things that used to be handed out freely will be hard fought such as a simple bottle of Morphine to give to Mercurio. We used to stop at the Medical Clinic and Blood Buff our way into Malcolm's office, then stop at Mercurios and get the XP. Not anymore, not enough Inspection? No free Morphine, you'll have to buy some at Trips. Not enough money? Raise Haggle... etc....  Oh wait, you're a Salubri? Great! You can heal Mercurio without ever needing the Morphine. It's a great day to be a Salubri. It's going to be tough, but in the end I think the rewards will be 100 times greater.

People will say... "You actually beat TFN 1.4 without any cheats? Amazing!!!"
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:09 pm

That would be cool to say the least; the game lost its gist with me after I powerplayed it (to get screens for TFN no less Very Happy) and learned the game inside out, making me go on auto-pilot each time I tried playing. If the new version can solve than then I think I can get a run or two out of it yet cheers
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:16 pm

Karavolos wrote:
That would be cool to say the least; the game lost its gist with me after I powerplayed it (to get screens for TFN no less Very Happy) and learned the game inside out, making me go on auto-pilot each time I tried playing. If the new version can solve than then I think I can get a run or two out of it yet cheers

See Kara, that's the EXACT same thing that happened to me. You can only play Bloodlines so many times before you memorize each and every nook and cranny of the game. You can even introduce new clans, disciplines, NPCs, storylines, etc... but in the end, it's still Bloodlines.

I got this idea of making the game super challenging but rewarding, after I spent several months playing the Requiem mod for Skyrim that basically turns Skyrim into a nightmare land where every misstep is a death. In fact, they advertise the fact that you will die A LOT. I'm not looking to turn TFN into a masochistic ball of frustration for the player, but I'd like to get some of that feeling of "OMG, I finally killed that boss and got that occult item, I'm SOOO proud of myself", feeling back to the player.

TFN is NOT for first time players and I won't hide that fact. TFN is for the veterans who are bored of the game and how easy its become for them.
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:22 pm

Whaaaat, so even if I increase my dexterity and and lockpicking and become a thief, I will not find items laying around? I know we voted for an Inspection rework, but but but...  do you remember when you sneaked on your neighboor and got the Stealth book, or when you stole Malcon's morphine? What's the point now, if they are locked AND hidden?

Edit: maybe make items either locked or hidden -> Malcon's Morphine could be stashed at Gimble's stash, and hidden items like the Stealth book should be moved to places where it's open by default or can be unlocked via keys (yes, I know the neighboor can be opened that way, I just like to do it early).
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:03 am

I like the sound of this new harder TFN.
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:33 pm

Cretino wrote:
Whaaaat, so even if I increase my dexterity and and lockpicking and become a thief, I will not find items laying around? I know we voted for an Inspection rework, but but but...  do you remember when you sneaked on your neighboor and got the Stealth book, or when you stole Malcon's morphine? What's the point now, if they are locked AND hidden?

Edit: maybe make items either locked or hidden -> Malcon's Morphine could be stashed at Gimble's stash, and hidden items like the Stealth book should be moved to places where it's open by default or can be unlocked via keys (yes, I know the neighboor can be opened that way, I just like to do it early).

First off, the lore books are always bought, never found. It's been that way for TFN since 1.0 at release. Second, most items that can be found aren't locked away and are just lying around in plain sight, if you have the Inspection level to see them. The Morphine in Malcolm's office are one of those rare exceptions that an Inspection of 4 is needed to see it and they are behind a locked door. This is rare however. Also, any item lying in a container that needs to be picked will be revealed and don't need Inspection to see at all, so you can still be a thief and use your lockpicking skill to steal money and items from containers. That hasn't changed.

Dragatus wrote:
I like the sound of this new harder TFN.

Thanks Draggy! I'm playing it and it's super fun now! cheers
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:19 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Cretino wrote:
Whaaaat, so even if I increase my dexterity and and lockpicking and become a thief, I will not find items laying around? I know we voted for an Inspection rework, but but but...  do you remember when you sneaked on your neighboor and got the Stealth book, or when you stole Malcon's morphine? What's the point now, if they are locked AND hidden?

Edit: maybe make items either locked or hidden -> Malcon's Morphine could be stashed at Gimble's stash, and hidden items like the Stealth book should be moved to places where it's open by default or can be unlocked via keys (yes, I know the neighboor can be opened that way, I just like to do it early).

First off, the lore books are always bought, never found. It's been that way for TFN since 1.0 at release. Second, most items that can be found aren't locked away and are just lying around in plain sight, if you have the Inspection level to see them. The Morphine in Malcolm's office are one of those rare exceptions that an Inspection of 4 is needed to see it and they are behind a locked door. This is rare however. Also, any item lying in a container that needs to be picked will be revealed and don't need Inspection to see at all, so you can still be a thief and use your lockpicking skill to steal money and items from containers. That hasn't changed.

I know they can only be bought. It was just the only example I had.
Rule of thumbs, no using of two skills or more to obtain something until late end game (when experience is limited)
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:32 pm

Cretino wrote:
Rule of thumbs, no using of two skills or more to obtain something until late end game (when experience is limited)

You can always go back and get these missed items.
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:57 pm

Zer0 needs it to be very hard or else he cannot take pleasure in it. afro
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PostSubject: Re: The current state of The Final Nights mod (Halloween)   Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:20 am

Same here, at least at this point. I don't need it to be hard during the first time, but eventually that's what keeps it from becoming dull.
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