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TheInvoker
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PostSubject: XP points are not enough   Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:18 pm

i don'0t know how but i'm having many problems to finish all the quests now. XP poiints are not enough and i think this is because now disciplines costs much more
I'm in Hollywood and should do the network hub for Mitnick. I can't finish because i need 6 points in hacking (i have 5)...get 1 points costs 6 points
Then i should also find the CD for Bertram but i suppose i need more than 6 inspection (that is not low) since i can't find it.

All of this could be ok if i a pygsical monster that destroys everyone but i'm not! i lose vs strong enemies and i have just bought 1 point in stamina,0 in dexterity,strenght,wits,dodge. I bough 2 in brawl (+1 from Nines) ....i'm really weak and i can't finish other quests.

Also i'm playing a Baali that should get more XP,even if i don't understand when and how many,and still they are not enough
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Cretino
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:45 am

Baali get more experience whenever they get rewarded something like 3 or 4 experience and over.
What you are experiencing is a normal phenomenon encountered by most novice VtM:B players - the fact that later in the game you have to FIGHT to progress; looking at your stats, you're sure to have a hard time.

In addition to that, The Final Nights has rebalanced all the weapons across the board, and enemies as well, so every part of the game is challenging; maybe you can use some spare money (which you probably has, after hacking npc computers) to buy some Books!!
afro
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TheInvoker
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:05 am

Novice?? i have played the original game about 10 times and Camarilla Edition 2 more times...finished with every clan except Tremere ( i tried but i didn't like it so i stopped)

And i never had problems to finish all the quests.
I don't know if it's only the higher cost of the disciplines,maybe also hacking/lockpicking requirements now are higher

I had to reaise lockping to 5 spending 9 points in lockiping to stop electrical damage in the sewer or i would never go out from there.Thank god i had some points unused....

i really like the perception system but with 6 points at midgame (Hollywood) i should be able to find interesting things,not just a knife in front of the Vesuvius or a blu blood pack close to Isaac's house.

So now i can't lockpick,i can't hack,i can't seduce,i can't find good things,i'm weak at combat. All i can do i persuade (but 6 points won't be enough from now on,so i should spend more points there) and stealth with obfuscate (including stealth kills) since i already have 5 points in that discipline.
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Cretino
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:33 am

Wait, so even with extra experience points you're having trouble? Btw the Demon Discipline is OP,if you ever have the time to check it out...

Oh just to clear things, I didn't mean to call you a novice.
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TheInvoker
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:14 am

Yes i have,but now i have started a new game raising different things escept inspection...
But now i'm using firearms and perception is good for inspection too so i don't waste points

I have a salubri with good lockping (5) /hacking (5) /sneaking (6) /inspection (5) at least until downtown. But now i think i will have problems because i should spend more points and i started to raise Auspex (3) and Obeah (3). Auspex helps hacking and inspection.

I have 3 points in perception but 0 in firearms and still di go a decent damage while with my baal i was doing bad damage with hands and to have inspection too i had to spend more points. Then the remainig abilities are just different choices to have a different character. The baal is more mental because he comes out with +2 in persuasion so made it good in persuasion/intimidation/haggle (but not seduction)

The problem is that some quests can't be done i don't have a X level of lockpicking and hacking.

Having extra dialogues is coold and leads to getting some extra point,or not losing humanity or something else,but it's not necessary to finish the game,while other things are.

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TheInvoker
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:26 am

i think that having an ability that gives point to combat AND utilities is OP

Weapons: Strenght + Melee
Unarmed: Strenght + Brawl
Ranged: Perception + Firearms

The second is OK but the first....
Strenght gives points to both melee and unarmed combat but honestly i don't need both. if i'm fighting with a katana i don't need to be good with hands too...
If i'm a Gangrel with claws i don't need to use a weapon...
So i'm rasing Strenght of just 1 style not for both,while raising Perception give bonus in 2 different and useful categories.

SUGGESTION
Weapons: Dexterity + Melee (dexterity doesn't fit for all melee weapons but many of them like the blades)
Unarmed: Strenght + Brawl
Sneaking: Dexterity + Stealth
Lockpicking : Strenght + Security

Strenght for lockpicking is not the best for what see in game (try to open the door ) but we can just think we destroy the lock and then we are able to open the door.
It would be more balanced in my opinion since all 3 combat styles can have access to 1 utility.
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Karavolos
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:23 am

TheInvoker wrote:
Novice?? i have played the original game about 10 times and Camarilla Edition 2 more times...finished with every clan except Tremere ( i tried but i didn't like it so i stopped)

I still dare say you're a novice on the TFN front, if one with some past experience that means you don't have a notable learning curve. Sufficed to say, it differs from person to person as I have never experienced having too little exp; even during those times I power-played TFN to get images on the remaining armor sets. Which were about... 4 different characters? Nevermind anything I played before that point? So I say either I'm better at this game than I know, or it's you who still have to attune to the mod; I mean it's still your first playthrough right?
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TheInvoker
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:34 am

It's not that i'm missing many quest and i'm taking less points than you.
I have your same points

if i play this mod 10 times i'm sure that i won't get twice the points. i would still have the same (few) points to spend
As i said,using ranged weapons allow me to spend the same points for combat and have a good inspection too.
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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:56 pm

I've had the same experience with TFN as Karavolos has. It's true that XP is scarce, but in TFN you simply can't be good at everything, and jack-of-all-trades is discouraged for exactly the reason you're experiencing now. Some quests simply can't be finished because your skills are too low, and that's something you'll have to get used too in TFN.

For now, I highly recommend playing TFN 1.3.1 for 2 reasons. 1.) It's be far the easiest version in the TFN series. 2.) It's not broken all to hell like 1.4 is, and not only is 1.4 very broken, it's also much harder than 1.3.1. Once you can master 1.3.1, and we fix 1.4, then I'd recommend playing 1.4 (which will be 1.4.1 by that time).

That's just my suggestion.
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TheInvoker
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:23 pm

I don't pretend to be good in everything,i know i have to choose.

Persuasion
Seduction
Intimidation
Haggle
Lockpicking
Sneaking
Inspection
Research
Hacking

I would like to be able to max 4 of them...or have 3 maxed + 2 good along with all disciplines maxed and just above average combat

But as i said,at the moment ranged combat not only does more damage but also gives free points for ones of those abilities while melee and unarmed not.
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MxM
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:28 pm

TheInvoker wrote:
I don't pretend to be good in everything,i know i have to choose.

Persuasion
Seduction
Intimidation
Haggle
Lockpicking
Sneaking
Inspection
Research
Hacking

I would like to be able to max 4 of them...or have 3 maxed + 2 good along with all disciplines maxed and just above average combat

But as i said,at the moment ranged combat not only does more damage but also gives free points for ones of those abilities while melee and unarmed not.
Haggle 7: 12 XP in Manipulation + 5 XP to the knowledge (it's been months I don't play) + get the books for level 3 and 4.
Lockpicking 7: 12 XP in Dexterity + 2 XP in the skill + Bertram quest for level 2 and books up to level 4.
Persuasion 8 or 9: (note 9 Persuasion is just for the Giovanni quest) 12 (24) XP in Charisma, full Scolarship, you can get the 3rd level for free from Becket at the Museum and if you are an Assamite you can get for free up to level 5 from Akeem.
Research: you need 8 because more then 8 costs less XP to raise the skill rather than raising Int to read the book. So full scolarship and 12 XP in Intelligence even less if you max Auspex (you can reach 10 research with full Scolarship and 4 XP to Int).
Sneaking 5: 12 XP in Dex and read the book up to level 2 in stealth, if you buy the Ninjato you'll reach 7, if you are also Assamite you'll reach 9.
For all the ability based on Dex you can also use Blood Buff to raise them.
Inspection 7: so you can find Bertram's CD, full Perception (I use ranged weapons) and level 2 in the knowledge.
Hacking 8 (for quests): 12 XP in Int, you can use the book up to level 2 in Computer, 6 XP for level 3 with Bertram's CD you'll reach level 4 and 12 XP or the book for level 5.
With Auspex you'll get 11 Inspection and 11 Hacking (10 if you spend 4 XP in Int).
3 Intimidation and 1 Seduction lol!
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TheInvoker
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:06 am

You buy too many books,i don't have the money to buy all those things

And yes,you are using firearms so you are raising perception for both inspection and combat. Imagine if you have to spend points in strenght instead of perception. Your inspection would be much lower.
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MxM
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:36 am

TheInvoker wrote:
You buy too many books,i don't have the money to buy all those things

And yes,you are using firearms so you are raising perception for both inspection and combat. Imagine if you have to spend points in strenght instead of perception. Your inspection would be much lower.
I buy books because XP is harder to come by than money and that's the point of the Haggle skill. I have 6 melee just thanks to books and Nines with a total XP investment of 2 (3 or 1 for Assamites). I don't feel I need more, in this game firearms are OP and that's from someone who always uses melee or unarmed in RPG.
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TheInvoker
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:51 am

Raise research costs XP. if i want to be able to read the books i have to spend many points there and as far as i know there is only 1 (maybe 2) book for each ability
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MxM
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:08 am

Then prioritize Research and Haggle, use the history system to get boni.
You asked how to max skills and I answered. If you don't like the answer it's not my fault
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TheInvoker
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:34 am

MxM wrote:
Then prioritize Research and Haggle, use the history system to get boni.
You asked how to max skills and I answered. If you don't like the answer it's not my fault

i don't like because it's not possible

How many books for each ability do we have?

Also to say that i can't use 2 books of computers for point 4 and 5 (the most expensive) because if i remember well,one of the 2 can be used only for points 1 and 2 and also bertram can't teach computers if you already have 2 points.
The problem is not spendi 2 ore 3 points but when the cost is 9-12

Until arriving at Hollywood is all OK i think but then i have to raise diciplines more and i have very few points for other abilities,that also costs more because i have to buy the 3rd or 4th level
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MxM
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:39 am

I didn't have those problems and I played with Osebo, Salubri, Assamite, Followers of Set (I changed the Warrior back to Follower) and Baali. The problem is that you have to think twice how you invest your XP and that's the challenge in TFN. I max just 2 Disciplines for each clan while I don't spend any XP in useless (for my playstyle) ones.
Some Disciplines are OP like Auspex, other are more specific (Obfuscate, Fortitude...) other are versatile (like Presence if it wasn't bugged, Serpentis, Daimonion...) but you can't max them all. The same goes for the skill if you want a Charming Seductive pc it will be lacking in some other area, if you go for a combat oriented one it will be lacking in other and so on...
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Stronciy
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:22 am

Well....

Perception -4
Intel -3
Manipulation -2
Dex -3

Brawl -2 (2nd from Nines)
Dodge -2 (2nd from Books, I think)
Firearms-1 (spare 2 XP points in the last chapter)
Melee -2 (2nd from a Book)
Security -4 (I think, I used a book or 2)
Computer -3 (2nd from a Book, and 3rd from Bertram for CD quest)
Finance -2 (personal stupidity, because Larry does up to 2nd not third)
Investigation -4 (I think I used a book for 2nd or 3rd)
Scholarship -4 (3rd and 4th are from Becket)

Bloodbuff -3
Obfuscate -5
Fortitude -4

I've played for Samedi. Initial bonus is +1 obfuscate and +2 hacking.
So I started with 3 in Obfuscate.
Focused initially on Perception as to collect all the precious goodies from zer0morph and co. Turned out there were not many, at least I could not find out anything of real value at Perception level 8... until I got to Hollywood. The only cool thing that was there was a Flame-thrower- helped a lot.

In Santa Monica focus on hacking- lockpicking- perception is fine, but not that useful.

If you struggle so much, it means you do not know all the tricks to get the max XP points for quests. I've played vanilla VTM:B for all clans (may be) for both sexes, and about two times- return to it about once in 3 years. I played TFT 1.1 - there are feedback posts on it on this forum ....and I still find out new things about every time I play -new quests, new solutions, more XP.

TFT 1.4 is easier in a sense, that you do not need so much in Persuasion to get the right lines. I was surprised when I managed to Persuade Jeanette and Therese to happily ever after, in Vanilla you needed 6 in Persuasion, here I had 3 only, then I was able to persuade Bertram's ghoul to come clear about their plans - I think something like 6 in Persuasion was required again.

You just need to experiment and yes, those enemies armed with guns are vicious Very Happy but you don't have to fight much until China town.
And in vanilla I used to rush to China town without finishing any side quests, just to get +1XP charm from Mr. OX and then farm XP
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TheInvoker
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:17 am

Now i'm playing 2 different clans building different things on them and i'll see which one can spend points better

Baali has mental abilities because he starts with +2 persuasion and gets intimidation/seduction/persuasion from presence
Since i can't raise daimonon to the 5th level (too many xp needed) he fights with melee weapons

Salubri with good hacking ,inspection (thanks to auspex too) and lockpicking. He needs stealth too while Baali can use obfuscate but not so many points and he fights with guns and perception is useful both for offense and inspection

i have earned xp points in santa monica and i know i could take more for both but just 2-3
Salubri couldn't persuade sisters to stop fighting
Baali can't heal Mercurio
They both couldn't undrstand knox was lying and i don't know why....i knew inspection is needed to understand it and in fact salubri has the line "something is wrong about what you are saying" but then i didn't have any option to go on...
Baali has perasuasion but he didn't even get that line.

Also i read in TFN you can undertand Gimble is lying but i didn't find out how.
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:56 pm

TheInvoker wrote:


Also i read in TFN you can undertand Gimble is lying but i didn't find out how.

Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:26 pm

Stronciy wrote:
TheInvoker wrote:


Also i read in TFN you can undertand Gimble is lying but i didn't find out how.

Shocked

i read it somewhere
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MxM
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:34 pm

TheInvoker wrote:
Stronciy wrote:
TheInvoker wrote:


Also i read in TFN you can undertand Gimble is lying but i didn't find out how.

Shocked

i read it somewhere
I did it. You need 4 Inspection and grant bonus XP. For Knox you need 3 Inspection and (I think) 3 or 4 Persuasion (2 bonus XP).
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TheInvoker
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:44 pm

http://camarillaedition.darkbb.com/t2404-inspection

here i'm saying that i couldn't do any of those
know need to be persuaded?? ok i didn't have but i had inspection for gimble
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:16 pm

TheInvoker wrote:
http://camarillaedition.darkbb.com/t2404-inspection

here i'm saying that i couldn't do any of those
know need to be persuaded?? ok i didn't have but i had inspection for gimble
I did it in TFN 1.4 I still have to try the fix, but it shouldn't have changed that scratch
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TheInvoker
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PostSubject: Re: XP points are not enough   Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:54 am

MxM wrote:
TheInvoker wrote:
http://camarillaedition.darkbb.com/t2404-inspection

here i'm saying that i couldn't do any of those
know need to be persuaded?? ok i didn't have but i had inspection for gimble
I did it in TFN 1.4 I still have to try the fix, but it shouldn't have changed that scratch

Please check and let me know.

Se vuoi anche con un PM in italiano per spiegarmi meglio come si fa Very Happy
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