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 Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.

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Velvet
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PostSubject: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:38 pm

you already take on Prince LaCroix, the usurper power hungry prince who renegued the Camarilla, and the Kue-Jin. And not long ago you just tackled the Sabbat.
But there are other sects involved in the game.
if you will follow no allegiance, why not fight all the other sects?
namely, the Camarilla, represented by the "loyal" Strauss,
and the Anarchs, headed by the Baron Isaac.

I would propose two new quests:

1 - you storm the tremere chantry, which is suddenly riddled with tremere deffending his master, until a showdown with Strauss.

2 - turn hollywood into a combat zone riddled with anarch vampires, like previously santa monica in out for blood, which you have to go through until you enter the jewelry for a final showdown with Isaacs.

i don't quite know what to make of the token presence of anarchs in downtown, restricted to Last Round, though filled with important NPCs. maybe you have to storm that too? kill damsel, skelter and nines?

thus you would be sure to antagonize all sects, all factions, to make it plain that you indeed followed no allegiance but your own.
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:03 pm

Because there's a difference between going Autarkis and going stupid Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:22 am

i didn't get your answer at all!!!

what does autarkis mean? i'm kinda newbie, it must be some in game lingo that i'm not familiar with, might it mean no allegiance?

anyway, i have skimmed this forum, there seems to be a consensual hatred of strauss, i thought people might enjoy offing him.

and there is something in the last round anarchs that just rubs me the wrong way
i kinda like isaac, though, he is an old fashioned gentleman.
but i can see where that might rub off some people wrong.

listen: you already annihalate three factions for the no allegiance end game, the sabbat, the kuei jin and lacroix.

why not go all the way?

why not tackle the remaining two, strauss and the anarchs?
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:08 am

Autarkis are vampires that are independant of any sect.

If you don't like them, don't deal with them anymore. Simple.

If you went around killing everyone you didn't like then you'd fall to the beast and get hunted down by some NASTY things. You wouldn't live beyond the end of the game, simply put.
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:33 am

There is a Brujah Quest in CQM where you storm into the Chantry to kill Strauss (but I do like him ! ^^)

Autarkis is the term used for vampires without allegiance, yes, but it's quite a problem on itself alone (Beckett is one of those, but he has gained some reputation and boons, and he is way older.. and still he is not easely accepted or anything). So going all the way to destroy everything may cause problems for the future of the character (well, having blown-up lacroix will be seen as a problem on itself, but that can be overlooked.. because the character did not know about the bomb, did it ?).

Strauss never caused problems or claimed domain, he does think the Anarch need the Camarilla, but then he may be thinking "long term scheme" and not messing around and be all about beating his chest like Lacroix. The Anarch do whatever they want with their territory (the character doesn't care about them since she is leaving town).

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PostSubject: Re: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:36 am

makes sense.

but i think of jack

he hangs around with the anarchs, but he is very much his own person
and his conversations are riddled with mentions that he is indeed very much his own person and he has been doing just that, ripping of jawbones and jamming them into eye sockets of those he dislikes in order to build a better future
and despite his offensive behavior he is granted a grudging respect

and the closing scene of the autarkis ending is the character hanging out with jack
after brushing off nines
so why not have your character emulate jack's atitude?

you mean that you can only go so far even if you choose to become an autarkis, and i see the wisdom in that, i do

still...
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:43 am

precisely!
since the character is leaving town, why not leave a field of smoking ruins behind her, having...

oh crap.

she would be doing the work of the Vampire Hunters, cleansing the town of it's vampire presence.

indeed the character is camarilla, it makes sense to eradicate the sabbat
she is kindred, it makes sense to eradicate the kuei jin
and la croix is an usurper, taking in personal power on the margin of the camarilla, it makes sense to eradicate him

yay! indeed Brujah are anarch and Anarch is mostly Brujah, it would make sense that if you side with the anarchs you would expunge the camarilla, represented by strauss, which are intruders into LA, formerly a anarch domain.

but, yeah, i see, even to an autarkis there are only so many toes she can stub.
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:57 am

Er, you need to watch the end cutscene again. You are NOT with Jack in it.

And most of Jacks' violence was over a century ago.

Brujah are NOT mostly Anarch and most Anarchs are not Brujah either, the ones in The last Round are pretty much a Brujah coterie which happen to be Anarchs.
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:59 am

8people, i guess i need to follow your suggestion at that
it has been a long time since i ended the game.
i vaguely remember something impossible, me and jack and the mummy sunbathing or some such, or enjoying coktails.
i think i mean after the credits, a cookie or whatever its called
memory foggy, i repeat

point taken, i know, not all brujahs are anarchs, not all anarchs are brujahs, there is just a tendency i guess - or even just a coincidence that in last round all are anarchs and all are brujah

which in a sense it is more an argument FOR storming last round and wasting the whole bunch, it might be perceived as localized and not antagonize the rest of the anarch comunity in LA

your argument about jack...
yes his violence is all in the past, now he has mellowed out, to the point of more or less forgoing his independence and sort of joining in with the anarch
but he still enjoys prsently a hallowed state, and he only got by it through its past violence
to me jack is a role model, to aspire to his hallowed state in the future i might need to begin where he began, through as much violence as he displayed in the future
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:03 am

plus i just thought of something else

the quests where he wastes the kuei jin and prince lacroix imediately follow the quest where a blood hunt has been declared on him so any vampire in the city is out for his blood.
that quest is restricted to santa monica, but why not assume that ALL the vampires in LA, ALL the vampires in ALL the other locations in the game are out for his blood?
maybe he does indeed need to waste every single vampire in LA to dispose of the Blood Hunt called on him

and do it as a statement for the blood hunt to be lifted, so that no other vampire anywhere else goes after him, tries to enforce that blood hunt

(how widespread are blood hunts?)
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:24 am

Hey, Velvet.
Just quickly throwing something in since I think you got something wrong.
There is actually no Blood Hunt on Jack - the Blood Hunt only affects the player's character.
Jack helps the player escape the sun after Griffith Park (and provides safety during the day so one isn't killed during daytime torpor) and tells her/him about the current situation, the former which could probably get him meddled in a Blood Hunt on his own head, I think, since helping a Blood Hunt target is considered being allied with it (and thus likely being hunted down, too) but that's all he does. No more, no less.
And, well, since LaCroix doesn't get a chance to call another Blood Hunt (no matter the specific ending) it's highly unlikely that Jack's affected at all. Er. Yes. Hope that's not too confusing... difficult to express myself at the moment. My bad.

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PostSubject: Re: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:48 am

eliza, i have to assume i was the confusing one.

i KNOW that the blood hunt is on the character
jack indeed takes the character from griffith park to santa monica
and then (suposedly) apears with the character in the final scene
but i KNOW it is the sum total of his involvement.

i KNOW that the blood hunt is on the character
that is why i proposed as a premise that said blood hunt not be circunscribed to the santa monica location, as it is, the quest pertaining to the blood hunt takes place only in santa monica, but widen the blood hunt to other locations in the game, assume that the whole city, all other factions, of vampires in la are out to get the character so the character has to dispose of all of them

i also mentioned jack as a role model: if jack had a violent begining to arrive at his hallowed current state, so i propose the character embark in a similar violence to arrive in an hipotethical future at a similar hallowed state



i see.
the him in my previous post is the PLAYER CHARACTER, not jack, i just slipped into him as a short hand, but everything that i say in that post has to do with the player character
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:01 am

Ah. I see, too.
Well, my bad, then, but at least now it's clear for anybody else. Laughing

Another short note on your thoughts, maybe. Er, at least sort of short.
I don't think it's that logical to have every faction in the game out for the player's blood. It depends on how your character has behaved throughout the game - some alliances and/or friendships, after all, could survive the Blood Hunt and provide shelter, help or at least pacificity.
There's a pretty good example, I think. Take Nines. There's been a Blood Hunt on him for quite a long time, but not all the Anarchs went out to get his head as a trophy. It may be that some of the younger 'upstarts' want to claim the 'fame' that comes with killing him, but those loyal to him (or smart enough to see the trick behind the hunt) stay in place, like Damsel and Skelter.

In conclusion, if the player, for example, sided with the Anarchs, there would probably not be need to fight in Hollywood if he/she could explain the situation to Isaac who could (maybe/high likely?) spread the word through his city that it's only a set up.
Or if you sided with the Camarilla and have sympathies with Strauss, he could try to help you clear your name - although he probably won't help you any other way if you're not Tremere since that could damage his reputation (not to mention his high position in the Tremere clan as Regent and in the Camarilla as primogen) - it won't suit him to jeopardize everything because of a neonate.

Yeah, well, just my thoughts on you thoughts, hope they do some good...

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PostSubject: Re: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:19 am

eliza, i appreciate your input and therefore it pains me to be so blunt:

the name of the topic is autarkis, non aligned, ending.

from the very begining of the game i settled for this middle ground:
be nice enough so the NPCs will give me quests, i want to do them all, i need the XPs,
but what i have been trying is to antagonize everybody, paint myself into a corner where only the autarkis ending would be left.
(this actualy only works with lacroix, you can navigate a middle ground between being "yessir" and so rude that he has to dominate you to do the quests he proposes, but i have diligently navigated that middle ground with him.)
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:26 am

Embarassed Hupsie.
Yeah, well, might wanna get some sleep. Was a very short night. Neutral
My apologies, anyhow, think I'll let it be it for now... although I can't resist wondering how the player should survive fighting every Kindred in L.A. all at once. At some place, there'd be sunrise, and surely somehow the character would be dealt with then by Ghouls or otherwise payed/dominated mortals, since he's not as powerful as an Elder - and not as experienced. ... I'll just stop rambling or it'll be even more embarrassing than it already is. Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:41 am

Blood Hunt is declared by domain. It is a Camarilla thing.

Jack committed violent acts as a part of survival. Like he says clearly in the tutorial.

Killing every vampire you can just because you don't want to be part of their group isn't survival. It's homocide for the sake of bloodlust which leads to the beast. Which will lead to you being, quite simply, put down like the animal that you are.
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:55 am

it's alright...
maybe i wasn's so clear myself

and you are being a writer, speculating, playing with the idea, i like that.

one person i retained as friend is mercurio,
maybe the character might crash with mercurio, mercurio would be more than able to care for him.

once again, it pains me to say this:
when i first came up with the idea, it was with a "to hell with it, it is only a game. more to the point, the story ends when the game ends, who cares about what would come after?" atitude.

but even then i knew i was being irresponsible. i read somewhere that the game was so important it became canonical, i take it to mean it even informed the PnP game universe.

which, i repeat, is not to say that i do not apreciate what you are doing, you are being creative, a writer, speculating, exploring the ramifications of my idea.
i like that.
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed: New Quests for the No Allegiance End Game.   Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:56 am

8 people,

point taken, and i actually try to keep my humanity high.
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