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PostSubject: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:28 pm

Team,

One issue I noticed about VTMB the first time I ran through it was the eyes are so messed up. There are Vampires (like Smiling Jack) who have normal human looking eyes, and some humans (like Dr. Malcolm in Santa Monica) who have orange Vampire eyes. This is a inconsistancy that always bothered me. To expand on that Gangrel have a discipline called "Gleam of Red Eyes" which can be seen by Beckett who keeps his active throughout the whole game. However being so close to the Beast I always wanted Gangrel to have a special "kick" to their eyes that other clans don't have.

So I wanted to see what you guys thought about this. I would like to go through the whole game and any Vampire with Human eyes will now get Vampire eyes (like Smiling Jack), and any Human with Vampire eyes will get Human eyes. Ghouls should remained untouched, and ALL Gangrel will get Yellow\Green eyes that glow in low light, except for in the case with Beckett who likes to keep "Gleam of Red Eyes" active, so I won't touch him.

Here's some screen shots of what I'm talking about.

Jack w/ Vamp Eyes (Low Light)
Jack w/ Vamp Eyes (Bright Light)

Gangrel eyes look normal in the light, but in the darkness they have a slight glow to them.
Female Gangrel (Bright Light)
Female Gangrel (Low Light)
Male Gangrel (Low Light)

Serial Killer Gangrel's Eyes (Before and After)
Before
After

Let me know what you guys think.
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:09 pm

Killing it! Keep it up!
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:02 am

Thanks VampChamp!

Ok guys, Dr. Malcolm in Santa Monica is my first human I found with Vampire eyes, I went ahead and gave him regular Human looking eyes which I feel makes the game more realistic. Here is a before and after shot.

Dr. Malcolm Before (Vamp)
Dr. Malcolm After (Human)
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:05 am

Well done!
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:09 am

One thing about Gangrel:

In the PnP game, the clan flaw of the Gangrel is that every time they indulge the beast and frenzy, they gain some beast like physical attribute, e.g. a tail, claws, scales.

So, I always took that if a Gangrel is glowing eyes, he's likely frenzied at least once. Now there's only 5 gangrel in the whole game:

Beckett - He's got the glowing eyes, hence he's probably caved once or twice in his time
Sheriff - Who's clearly frenzied many times, being half-bat before shapeshifting
Killer - Okay, you'd think this guy would have frenzied by now, considering his demeanor. I think it makes sense he would have some crazy eyes
The player (male and female) - See, I don't know that it fits here, since the player's hardly been around. Likely he'd not have frenzied already and gained crazy eyes.

Anyways, I just thought I'd throw that out there as a "to consider".
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:18 am

I feel as if the eye fixing is a must to the game. Also I do agree with Lee and his post above. I would change the serial killers eyes to match that of beckettes and the sheriff's and leave the PC gangrels eyes alone since if what stated above is true PC eyes wouldnt have yet changed or at all depends on if player has frenzied.
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:33 am

burgermeister01 wrote:
One thing about Gangrel:

In the PnP game, the clan flaw of the Gangrel is that every time they indulge the beast and frenzy, they gain some beast like physical attribute, e.g. a tail, claws, scales.

So, I always took that if a Gangrel is glowing eyes, he's likely frenzied at least once. Now there's only 5 gangrel in the whole game:

Beckett - He's got the glowing eyes, hence he's probably caved once or twice in his time
Sheriff - Who's clearly frenzied many times, being half-bat before shapeshifting
Killer - Okay, you'd think this guy would have frenzied by now, considering his demeanor. I think it makes sense he would have some crazy eyes
The player (male and female) - See, I don't know that it fits here, since the player's hardly been around. Likely he'd not have frenzied already and gained crazy eyes.

Anyways, I just thought I'd throw that out there as a "to consider".

I've never read that about Gangrel so I'll take your word on it. But let me respond...

Sheriff - First off I was under the impression that he was of the Clan Nagloper, they mention he is from South Africa, he has hooks for feet, and can use both Vicissitude (Creating his Bat Wings) and Animalism which he uses at the beginning of the game.
Beckett - I always thought Beckett's eyes were red all the time because he kept Gleam of Red Eyes (the Discipline) active constantly.
Killer - If frenzying is how Gangrels get crazy eyes, then I agree with you here HAHA.
PCs - If they haven't frenzied yet, at some point in the game (especially with the bloodloss and new regeneration rules) I'm sure they will, also being that all Gangrel get a penalty to Frenzy scores making it that much harder. If your PC Gangrel DOES frenzy, then I would think you'd be wishing you had the eyes at that point.

Edit: VampChamp just submitted a copy/paste stating exactly what you said above so your statement stands. But I still feel the same way in my response. Let me know how you guys feel.
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:17 am

Zer0Morph wrote:


I've never read that about Gangrel so I'll take your word on it. But let me respond...

Sheriff - First off I was under the impression that he was of the Clan Nagloper, they mention he is from South Africa, he has hooks for feet, and can use both Vicissitude (Creating his Bat Wings) and Animalism which he uses at the beginning of the game.
Beckett - I always thought Beckett's eyes were red all the time because he kept Gleam of Red Eyes (the Discipline) active constantly.
Killer - If frenzying is how Gangrels get crazy eyes, then I agree with you here HAHA.
PCs - If they haven't frenzied yet, at some point in the game (especially with the bloodloss and new regeneration rules) I'm sure they will, also being that all Gangrel get a penalty to Frenzy scores making it that much harder. If your PC Gangrel DOES frenzy, then I would think you'd be wishing you had the eyes at that point.

Edit: VampChamp just submitted a copy/paste stating exactly what you said above so your statement stands. But I still feel the same way in my response. Let me know how you guys feel.

Nerdgasm Time:
Regarding the sheriff: I'm not to keen on the 'off' clans, but as far as I can tell he's Gagrel. I saw no sign of hooked feet, save when he's a bat, which is to be only expected. The wings, I imagine came from turning into a bat via Protean. And anyways, of the snippet I read of the Nagloper, it doesn't sound like any kind of Vampire that would be interested in joining the Camarilla.

Ok, nerding out aside:

If you really wanted to get BA about this, you could implement something of the following for Gangrel players:

Add an event_player entity to all maps. Tie a python function to the event OnFrenzyBegin(), which would set a G variable to indicate the player has frenzied. Then add an event to every map's OnMapLoad() event, that would fire another python function to replace the player model to have glowing eyes.

It would be extremely complicated for such a small feature, that only a fraction of the player would probably ever even notice, but that would be pretty B.A.

Something to consider.
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:57 am

burgermeister01 wrote:
Zer0Morph wrote:


I've never read that about Gangrel so I'll take your word on it. But let me respond...

Sheriff - First off I was under the impression that he was of the Clan Nagloper, they mention he is from South Africa, he has hooks for feet, and can use both Vicissitude (Creating his Bat Wings) and Animalism which he uses at the beginning of the game.
Beckett - I always thought Beckett's eyes were red all the time because he kept Gleam of Red Eyes (the Discipline) active constantly.
Killer - If frenzying is how Gangrels get crazy eyes, then I agree with you here HAHA.
PCs - If they haven't frenzied yet, at some point in the game (especially with the bloodloss and new regeneration rules) I'm sure they will, also being that all Gangrel get a penalty to Frenzy scores making it that much harder. If your PC Gangrel DOES frenzy, then I would think you'd be wishing you had the eyes at that point.

Edit: VampChamp just submitted a copy/paste stating exactly what you said above so your statement stands. But I still feel the same way in my response. Let me know how you guys feel.

Nerdgasm Time:
Regarding the sheriff: I'm not to keen on the 'off' clans, but as far as I can tell he's Gagrel. I saw no sign of hooked feet, save when he's a bat, which is to be only expected. The wings, I imagine came from turning into a bat via Protean. And anyways, of the snippet I read of the Nagloper, it doesn't sound like any kind of Vampire that would be interested in joining the Camarilla.

Ok, nerding out aside:

If you really wanted to get BA about this, you could implement something of the following for Gangrel players:

Add an event_player entity to all maps. Tie a python function to the event OnFrenzyBegin(), which would set a G variable to indicate the player has frenzied. Then add an event to every map's OnMapLoad() event, that would fire another python function to replace the player model to have glowing eyes.

It would be extremely complicated for such a small feature, that only a fraction of the player would probably ever even notice, but that would be pretty B.A.

Something to consider.

My turn to be the geek!

VampChamp and I researched The Sheriff and found something you should read from wikipedia.
"The Sheriff is LaCroix's personal bodyguard, killer, and enforcer. At seven feet in height, he towers over everyone else. He is the final boss the player must fight at the end, except when siding with LaCroix. The Sheriff can transform into a bat-like creature called the "Chiropteran Marauder". His clan is rumored to be Nagloper, a hybrid clan from Africa made of Tzimisce and Gangrel."

Why Sheriff joined the Camarilla is beyond me, heh.

Ok now down to business, I think thats an awesome idea bro! However frenzying lasts 10 seconds per activation, hardly worth the time and effort for the minimal attention it will get. However have you ever noticed when you use Protean Tier 1-4 your eyes DON'T change? I mean sure you get heat vision, but you still have the standard pupil and iris as when your NOT in Protean mode. Look at Beckett's read eyes, they almost look like glowing red cat eyes, yours look nothing like that when you use Tier 1-4.

Do you think it's possible to write a code similiar to what you were talking about, except have it affect Tier 1-4 Protean?

K, your turn.
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:22 am

I have been researching all about Gangrels and Naglopers and the Eye stuff this is what I come up with. Seriff is for sure a Nagloper. Becketts eyes are from frenzying, not like I have a accually statement saying that but Gangrels are known to get mutations from frenzying. A quote I found online is "Most other vampires can walk around and still at least pretend to be human. Gangrel are more likely to succeed at pretending to be a wolf". So what I am purposing is that changing the Killer's eyes more like Beckettes. For he has for sure been Frenzying the whole game. Also I would think it would be really cool to change the Gangrels PC eyes. Like above that extra seen would be cool. If it is to hard why not just do it from the get go. So that when the Gangrels frenzy they have it and are like the others?
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:34 am

VampChamp wrote:
I have been researching all about Gangrels and Naglopers and the Eye stuff this is what I come up with. Seriff is for sure a Nagloper. Becketts eyes are from frenzying, not like I have a accually statement saying that but Gangrels are known to get mutations from frenzying. A quote I found online is "Most other vampires can walk around and still at least pretend to be human. Gangrel are more likely to succeed at pretending to be a wolf". So what I am purposing is that changing the Killer's eyes more like Beckettes. For he has for sure been Frenzying the whole game. Also I would think it would be really cool to change the Gangrels PC eyes. Like above that extra seen would be cool. If it is to hard why not just do it from the get go. So that when the Gangrels frenzy they have it and are like the others?

VampChamp has been smothering me with Gangrel research but you both were right about the mutations and the reason for Beckett's red glowing eyes. If that is the case then I agree the serial killer should also have red glowing eyes, even while standing in the diner, afterall he does mention later on in the game that he doesn't care about breaking the masquerade, which would explain why he's so open to be standing in the diner with red glowing eyes in the first place.

What I would like to do is see if Burgermeister01 can write a script that allows Gangrel PCs to take on Beckett's eyes while using any form of Protein period. Meaning their eyes change to be like Beckett's eyes. If he can't make the script work then I think we should just give the PC Gangrel's Beckett's eyes at the beginning of the game. As the PC Gangrel's grow in power and frenzy they we would want them to have them anyways.

How do you guys feel about this idea?
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:36 am

My thoughts exactly!
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:06 am

Zer0 and I were both talking about seeing if Lee could write a script, for Beckett turning the PC Gangrels eyes Glowing from a Frenzy like quest. Ok this is going to be a little long and maybe confusing but please bare with me I think this is a really awesome idea for down the road with the merge of Clan Quest mod.

I am really excited to try out the Clan Quest mod, I have not had the chance yet to do so, from what I know (maybe Lee can clear it up if I get something wrong) is that each Clan has a quest from some one else in their clan. Depending on your choices in the quest you get a fourth Disipline. Either Obsfucate or Celerity.

Now when we merge the mods we could have at some point in Beckett's quest the PC Gangrel Frenzy's and has its eyes turn like Beckett's. Upon your return to Beckett (I watched a video some were I beilve it was getting a book for him) he notices your eyes have changed, (he gives you some long lecture on being seen by Kine with those eyes) and then teaches you Obsfucate. Then for the rest of the game Gangrel is treated the same as a Nos with the whole sneaking system implimented. A Gangrel with Warform and Obsfucate is unstopable but now you have to deal with sneaking every where. Kind of the "Great power brings Great Responseablity" deal. Thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:24 pm

I think these are both pretty awesome ideas; I'm trying to think about how to do both of these things. Both of them involve dynamically setting the model for the PC under different circumstances.

For the record, in the Clan Quest, actually the only clan that gets a fourth disciplines are the Tremere. But there's no reason why any of the other clans couldn't, as well. Only thing about having the Gangrel treated as Nos, is that I think the only way to achieve that affect is to actually make the player a Nossie. So, I'd have to research it, but I don't think it would be totally possible to have the player be treated as Nos without being one. The trick would be to actually make the player a Nossie, except in regards to what their model looks like. Problem is, I think this would automatically add all the Nossie disciplines without any way to remove them. Also, I don't think the player could be treated as a Gangrel AND a Nossie at the same time.

It would be complicated, to say the least, but I'll look into it. Very Happy


Kindly let me know what the executive decision is: whether we want the player to get red eyes after the clan quest, or if we want to activate it with Protean.
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:32 pm

Oh, and just for the record: I'm still not convinced that the sheriff is something other than Gangrel Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:23 pm

Beckett Eyes 1
Beckett Eyes 2
Beckett Eyes 3

Yuck Yuck Yuck is all I can say to making all the Gangrel's eyes in the game like Becketts. I've tried to like it, I really have but his eyes scream "MASQUERADE VIOLATION" and IS NOT in any way realistic, even for the WoD. I didn't realize they would be so bright and in your face. I mean you can see the red from a mile down the road. I'm sorry but giving Beckett's eyes to all the Gangrel is a no go in my book.

So where does that leave us? I think we should go back to the original idea and give all Gangrel the green/yellow eyes that have a slight glow in the darkness, consider those "Standard" Gangrel eyes. If we can make the eyes turn into Beckett's eyes while using Protean then thats all the better.

Last night I learned how to keep "Red Vision" from turning on while using Protean so having Beckett's eyes during Protean use would be very noticable and would look awesome! The heat signatures still are there just not the red vision.

Thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:43 pm

Here is a screenshot of Beckett with "Standard" Gangrel eyes. I changed his obnoxious red glowing eyes to the more subtle animal predator style eyes. I actually like it ALOT better, and it keeps uniformity to ALL Gangrel, when you see a Vampire with those eyes, you automatically know they are Gangrel, and thats the effect I was going for. Also not to mention they are definately NOT standard Vamp eyes, but still subtle as to not SCREAM LOOK AT ME I'M A GANGREL VAMPIRE!!

Beckett w/ Gangrel Eyes
Note: I gave Beckett the slighter brighter eye set called Green_Hazel instead of Emerald_Green because I wanted his eyes to signify his power, and it looks better because he wears sunglasses.
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:57 pm

I do agree, with the Gangrel pc eyes. Aswell as the idea of making them have those only while in heat vision. Is it bad that I kind of like the southland slasher with those eyes? Beckett looks cool with those eyes but you just cannot change becketts trade mark eyes.
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:38 pm

Can someone hook we up with one the player models with the red eyes?
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:01 am

burgermeister01 wrote:
Can someone hook we up with one the player models with the red eyes?

I can mail you Beckett's eyes, or the files that point to Beckett's eyes (.ttz .tth files).

Here is a special screenshot just for VampChamp, he wanted to see what the Male Gangrel model looked like with the new Gangrel eyes in the hoodie. I posted both in the light, and the shadows. All I did was take a screenshot, then side stepped him in the shadows for a 2nd shot so you can see the difference. As you can see, in the light his eyes look pretty normal. In the dark, he looks like a predator! cheers

Male Gangrel Light
Male Gangrel Shadows
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:01 pm

Okay so here's the deal.....

Crazy eyes when using Protean will be do-able under one circumstance: it doesn't happen for level 1 protean. All other levels are fine.




This is because to do this, we're going to basically have two version of each of the gangrel models. One with regular eyes (not using protean), and one with crazy eyes (using protean). We add a events_player entity into every map with a trigger on the event "OnActivateProtean". That fires a python script which changes the model based on whatever armour the player is using.

Problem is when you switch weapons, holster weapons, attack with a weapon, the model changes back to the clan default, esencially undoing the swap. The happy coincidence however, is in protean levels 2 and up, you get those claws which lock your inventory, so you can't swap weapons and make the model swap back, so it pretty much works perfectly Very Happy

It even changes you back automatically when you cancel protean or the effect runs out.

So, if everyone is happy with that, then so am I!
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:39 pm

burgermeister01 wrote:
Okay so here's the deal.....

Crazy eyes when using Protean will be do-able under one circumstance: it doesn't happen for level 1 protean. All other levels are fine.




This is because to do this, we're going to basically have two version of each of the gangrel models. One with regular eyes (not using protean), and one with crazy eyes (using protean). We add a events_player entity into every map with a trigger on the event "OnActivateProtean". That fires a python script which changes the model based on whatever armour the player is using.

Problem is when you switch weapons, holster weapons, attack with a weapon, the model changes back to the clan default, esencially undoing the swap. The happy coincidence however, is in protean levels 2 and up, you get those claws which lock your inventory, so you can't swap weapons and make the model swap back, so it pretty much works perfectly Very Happy

It even changes you back automatically when you cancel protean or the effect runs out.

So, if everyone is happy with that, then so am I!

Thats fantastic mang!!! Great Job!!!

Quick question, let's say we decide to keep the new Gangrel face, will that still be possible?
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:18 am

Zer0Morph wrote:
burgermeister01 wrote:
Okay so here's the deal.....

Crazy eyes when using Protean will be do-able under one circumstance: it doesn't happen for level 1 protean. All other levels are fine.




This is because to do this, we're going to basically have two version of each of the gangrel models. One with regular eyes (not using protean), and one with crazy eyes (using protean). We add a events_player entity into every map with a trigger on the event "OnActivateProtean". That fires a python script which changes the model based on whatever armour the player is using.

Problem is when you switch weapons, holster weapons, attack with a weapon, the model changes back to the clan default, esencially undoing the swap. The happy coincidence however, is in protean levels 2 and up, you get those claws which lock your inventory, so you can't swap weapons and make the model swap back, so it pretty much works perfectly Very Happy

It even changes you back automatically when you cancel protean or the effect runs out.

So, if everyone is happy with that, then so am I!

Thats fantastic mang!!! Great Job!!!

Quick question, let's say we decide to keep the new Gangrel face, will that still be possible?

Absolutely. The models can be whatever you want just as long as there's a corresponding set of models with the glowing eyes.
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:19 am

Sounds really great! And those wo won't like it just have to raise Protean to five, because than it doesn't matter anymore :-D
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PostSubject: Re: Camarilla Edition: Eyes   Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:03 pm

PhilK1988 wrote:
Sounds really great! And those wo won't like it just have to raise Protean to five, because than it doesn't matter anymore :-D

Oh yea, and regarding protean 5: if you did want glowing eyes for it, you would just have to change the one model, since I guess the effect that puts on the player supersedes the python script.
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