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Feral
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PostSubject: Thaumaturgy paths   Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:01 pm

I know it is quite much to ask, but would it be possible to change the path the Tremere characters are using?
I know that Path of Blood is default first path for any Tremere, but plaing it over and over is a little... boring?
With other disciplines it is not a problem, as they are not divided into paths and rituals, but thaumaturgy is. I think that Hands of Destruction, Lure of Flames, Path of Levinbolt, Spirit Manipulation, or any you may see fit may actualy be implemented instead of it. Zer0morf could do just about anything with disciplines, as he demonstrated on TFN forum. I am sure there could be a belivable reason, in game terms, why a character has different path than the standard. For Lure of Flames, maybe his Sire was member of mortal Hous Flamboyant before his Embrace, and that House deals with fire as core of their magick? Well, I am sure you would come up with something.
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:00 pm

The trouble is: you can't add new diciplines, you can only change the existing ones. For everything new, something old has to go.
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:59 pm

If you kick out the old path of Blood Magic, that should make room for a new one, right?
I didn't mean to implement many paths of thaumaturgy. After all, you would have to treat alternative paths like disciplines, and a fledgling isn't really supposed to have, like 6-8 disciplines. Thats only possible for an Ancient, perhaps an Elder. But surly not an Ancilla, not to mention Neonate, restricted to his 3 in-clan disciplines, in case of Tremere that usually means only one path of Thaumaturgy. In game mechanics terms, that makes the path of Tremere character you are plaing the only path. So why not replace it? It wouldn't affect any other clans, as Thaumaturgy is for Tremere only. Well, maybe also their antitribu, but thats beside the point.
What I mean is, you dont really nead any new slots for disciplins, or messing with any disciplines of other clans. Path of Blood goes, some new path jumps in its place, that is still the same discipline: Thaumaturgy. Only effects of tiers are different.
Better still, you could link different paths to histories you choose at character creation. But I doubt that one could be done, it would require many "disciplines" in game terms...
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:47 pm

I really like this post because it brings up something I wanted to do for quite some time. Ultimately I took the "Let's replace a discipline with a brand new one" to the extreme which is now called TFN.

Can the Path of Blood be replaced with a different path? Absolutely it can, in fact I did it 5 times over in TFN. When I was looking at possible discipline replacements for CE, Thaumaturgy was my first stop. I scanned over the different paths and ultimately decided to go with Lure of Flames because it seemed the most practical for Bloodlines. I ended up not doing this for CE and instead took this idea to TFN.

Basically what needs to happen to make this possible is... you need someone who can remake disciplines, discipline values, effects, particle graphics, new sound FX, etc.... I will admit that it took me some time figuring out what did what and it would be a monumental task to ask Malkav to "learn" this skill just for this purpose. If I'm not mistaken he knows discipline modding about as well as I know python, lol.

If this is something that many people want, and Malkav wants incorporated into CE then I'm sure we could figure something out. As far as Lure of Flames goes, just know that Daimoinon in TFN is a fire-based discipline that incorporates things like Fireballs, setting yourself on fire, etc... and you probably wouldn't want 2 similiar disciplines in 2 different mods. However there are other paths, like Path of Destruction for instance. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:38 pm

Remember, the Tremere PC is born out of the pyramid. The mere fact that the Tremere HAS Thaumaturgy is an herezy ;-)

Disciplines must be learned, except for innate basic instinctive disciplines - potence, celerity, fortitude and maybe auspex and obfuscate.

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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:24 pm

That would be great! I really liked having plathera of disciplines in Pedemption. Different game mechanics, sure, but having Lure of Flames and rituals like Prision of Ice, Call the Lightning... I played poor Christof not really using Potence, Celerity, and only Awe from Presence. and even that only until I got Chris strong enough to simply drag and suck dry an opponent in combat. I played him like combat oriented warlock Smile

Claudia, you got me curious. What sort of disciplines is Tremere embraced out of the Piramid supposed to have?
Auspex, Dominate are inherent to them, OK. But the third one? Viccisitude resurfacing? Or maybe even deeper, Animalism coming back from the ancient history? Or some Salubri disciplines from after diablerie of Saulot?


Last edited by Feral on Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : got an afterthought)
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:05 pm

Or just those two that they can access without training. Simple as that Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:18 pm

Actually I don't see a reason to change tremere's current path.
To my CE is like vanilla Bloodlines without bugs. More like a well made patch. It doesn't ruin anything of the original content it just adds more. Replacing one path with another just for the purpose of having a brand new discipline doesn't sound good to me. At least not to anything under the name of CE.
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:39 am

I agree with YamiRaziel's sentiments. TFN is where we're going to see TCI go monkey-crazy.
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:48 am

Feral : Tremere vampires born out of the pyramid, as well as any other vampire who lost their sire and are not integrated in their clan if it's structured, are called Caitiff.

Usually, Caitiff have Potence, Fortitude and Celerity (which are basic physical disciplines), and can develop Auspex, Dominate or Obfuscate, as those are easely learned disciplines, linked to a particular action (wanting too look different or hide, empathy and intimidation..). And maybe animalism (it's basic survival with animal lore, that can be learned through practice without a tutor). But for Clan Specific Disciplines, you need to learn them with a tutor ; Protean, Thaumaturgy, Necromancy, viscisitude, obeah, valeren, serpentis...

I did not count Dementation as it may pop out of nowhere (and it's to dominate what serpentis is for protean).


You cannot develop Thaumaturgy out of nowhere ;-) Specially if you're a Neonate. It's not like Tremere are opened and like to teach their secrets to everybody...


Maybe you should have a bit more time with your sire who knows he's getting caught, who decides to teach you the first point of all your disciplines...
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:16 pm

Thanks Claudia. I half forgot about the Thin Bloods. But, on the other hand, the prince recognizes you as legit Kindred. And you could scheme your way into the Pyramid halfway through the game. Too bad action takes no more than a week of in-game time, this plot could be much expanded.


Last edited by Feral on Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:27 pm

Thin Blood and Caitiff are not exactly the same thing :-)
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:52 am

Caitiff are clanless, Thin Bloods do not show enough traits to fully belong to a clan so are a type of Caitiff.

Technically the player character would probably be a caitiff.
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:13 am

You are ofcoursly right, Claudia. I ment Caitiff, not Thin Bloods. well, I was writing that post after an interesting day at work... Or, to be honest, during an interesting day.
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:22 pm

...too bad this can't happen because of the discipline restrictions but wouldn't it be cool if you could learn "Lure of Flames" from Strauss if you completed some crazy hard to complete quest? Make it a 6th discipline? WOW That would rock.

In order for that to happen though we'd need to kill one of the passive disciplines, and thats obviously not going to happen.
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:56 pm

Vampire the Masquerade: Tremere Edition Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:41 pm

HAHA there you go! And you could replace ALL of the Active Disciplines with new Thaumaturgy paths! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:53 pm

That.Would.Be.AWESOME
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:41 pm

Changidg one would be more I dare to ask. Maybe Hands of Destruction then? You are right Zer0morf, Lure of Flames in CE and Daimonion in TFN would be nearly the same in two mods, so something else must do in CE. Cant wait to play Daimonion in TFN bounce
Though from personal point of view Animalism, Fortitude, Protean combo feels somehow more natural for me. Dont know why lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:08 am

Yep, this is probably one of the reasons why this game still has an active community after all these years. "There is something in it for everybody"

I prefer my enemies knowing about my presence only after I cut their throats.

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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:01 pm

How about a totally new path? "Path of Bunnies." Level 1 summons a cute, fluffy bunny that nips at your heels and distracts you, but is easily killed. Level 5 summons a giant Lepus Monstrous, which pretends you are a tasty carrot. albino

Where did that come from? Mallkav! Stop putting ideas in my head!
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Yep, this is probably one of the reasons why this game still has an active community after all these years. "There is something in it for everybody"

I prefer my enemies knowing about my presence only after I cut their throats.

You're definately right about that Malkav, this game does have something for everyone! I don't really like hiding, I'd prefer to be a nice big bullet cushion where enemies can unload on me, just to see the expressions on their faces as I heal up right before them, just to dash across the room and cut them in 2. Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:07 pm

PGM,

This path of bunnies would require you to have two sires: A Tremere and a Malk. Or being a Tremere and diablerizing a Malk.
Arrow new Subclan: Mad Tremere, with Auspex, Dementation, Thaumaturgy (Path of Bunnies)

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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:23 pm

That would be insane. No pun intended, of course Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Thaumaturgy paths   Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:28 am

PGM1961 wrote:
How about a totally new path? "Path of Bunnies." Level 1 summons a cute, fluffy bunny that nips at your heels and distracts you, but is easily killed. Level 5 summons a giant Lepus Monstrous, which pretends you are a tasty carrot. albino

Where did that come from? Mallkav! Stop putting ideas in my head!




GWAAAAHHH !!


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