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Velvet
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PostSubject: forgive my ignorance   Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:53 pm

could i ask for a detailed description of the new disciplines that TFN makes available? like serpentis? a breakdown, what are their levels, their names for each level, what they do at each level?
or, if it already exists, could you be so kind as direct me to it?
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Velvet
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:00 pm

on that subject, but a more precise question demanding in my view a new post,
in TFN how does Obeah work?
from the clan description, i would gather it heals,
but to heal your own damage you already have blood heal...

it just crossed my mind that for example in the hunters hunting Ash might require healing,
and argh the demon quest in chinatown, the demon hunter might require healing as well

but such instances are very rare in blood lines
will they be more frequent in TFN?

that is, assuming that Obeah is indeed a healing discipline...
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:37 pm

These are all great questions and I'm glad you asked.

1. I plan on making a posting of all of the new and old (but modified) disciplines similiar to how I posted all of the playable clans. This has been a project that I've put on hold to make skins but since now someone is bringing it up it's probably time to get on that.

The old disciplines will function very similiar to CE 1.2 which is hopefully good news. As of now no adjustments have been made to those old disciplines however I have been tinkering with the idea to "reduce" the overpowering nature of some of them, example: Celerity and Presence. I have also been thinking about raising the base cost of disciplines but that falls under more of a balancing discussion.

2. For Obeah, yes it is primarily a "healing" discipline but healing is a little more relative. Obeah involves healing of more than just the body, but also the mind and spirit. Because of this the discipline will give abilities to see auras, reduce your risk of frenzy, heal the body of course, add additional soak values, and ultimately will grant you better attack bonuses.

I know you might be thinking, "doesn't attacking fall under Valeren, not Obeah?" and you would be right. To make this new discipline work properly in TFN and the Bloodlines engine, I had to blend the 2 disciplines together which is why you have Obeah blended with Valeren.


Hopefully that answers your questions for now, but everything will make sense once I post the "Disciplines" listings page.
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Velvet
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:52 am

on that subject, a question that has been nagging at me:
in the vanilla version, Dementate Level 5 is instantly lethal, AS WELL AS Thaumaturgy Level 5 and Dominate Level 5.
in the Camarilla versions, Tahumaturgy 5 and Dominate 5 remain instantly lethal, but Dementate NO LONGER.
(even though Dementate Level 5 renders the foe unable to deffend himself until you finish him off, and does inflict whooping damage to start with, so it is practically lethal - but not instantly so.)
being a fan of Malkavians, this weakening of Dementate... troubles me...
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:39 pm

Velvet wrote:
on that subject, a question that has been nagging at me:
in the vanilla version, Dementate Level 5 is instantly lethal, AS WELL AS Thaumaturgy Level 5 and Dominate Level 5.
in the Camarilla versions, Tahumaturgy 5 and Dominate 5 remain instantly lethal, but Dementate NO LONGER.
(even though Dementate Level 5 renders the foe unable to deffend himself until you finish him off, and does inflict whooping damage to start with, so it is practically lethal - but not instantly so.)
being a fan of Malkavians, this weakening of Dementate... troubles me...
This is not a poll (not yet anyway), but it does not bother me (which is not meant to dismiss Velvet's opinion). Bloodboil (or whatever it's called) is even more powerful in comparison because it can kill or injure nearby targets, too. However, I think having Obfuscation more than compensates.

Again, just my opinion.
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ThePhilosopher
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:51 pm

Personally? I always though Thaumaturgy in Bloodlines to be weaker than other disciplines, especially bloodboil

Bloodboil cause little damage in endgame, and it takes a long time to kill someone(only weaklings), making the use of dominate 5 far better

Dementation 5 makes anyone, even bosses, to be paralyzed. It's far better than mass killing weak enemies, at least in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:01 pm

I hear what you're saying Velvet, but basically what Philosopher said, Dementate is king in this regard.

Dominate and Thaumaturgy 5 are instant kills, but don't touch many of the bosses. Dementate 5 is not an instant kill BUT does work on almost all bosses and not only paralyzes them, but also does extreme damage. So in the end game, Dementate 5 is king which is what Dementation and Malkavians are all about.

Dominate and Thaumaturgy 5 are better for mass killing kine and weak supernaturals, where as Dementate is not very good at that, but instead is better at one on one fights against powerful foes.

If it were me, I'd rather have Dementate 5 in a fight against the Sheriff, and Dominate/Thaumaturgy 5 in a fight against 10 human thugs.
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Velvet
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:41 am

plus Malkavians have dementate 4 to affect masses of weaklings.
i stand corrected.
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:31 pm

Naa your cool VV Cool

Each one of those disciplines have very unique and powerful choices in their selection. While one person may find Dementation to fit their playstyle another person may say Dominate is KING! I personally enjoy Thaumaturgy because of the blood management it provides. Being able to feed on bosses during fights means almost unlimited power for my abilities. I mean if you have level 5 Blood Heal and Theft of Vitae, WOW are you hard to kill. All you need to do is keep feeding on the boss via ToV and dump that blood into Blood Heal so you're constantly regenerating like crazy during the fight. And if you use Bloodform then that's even more added protection.

So chaining up disciplines to fit your playstyle is what CE was all about, CHOICES! Which is why I was so adamant about incorporating a 4th and 5th discipline that is fully upgradable, it really opens up the playbook for some unique and awesome abilities.



Edit: And when TFN gets released, you will have access to 5 completely brand new discipline sets which will raise the bar for options even higher. Imagine chaining Serpentis with Blood Heal w/ a sprinkle of Obfuscate and a dash of Auspex topped off with Blood Buff. There's going to be some mean disciplines combos in TFN and it's up to the players to find out what worked for them.

All I did was create the disciplines, I haven't played them in a real game yet so it will be interesting to see how people use them.
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:26 pm

I'm getting really stoked about TFN Z, it's really sounding pretty awesome! I'm not sure of your time-line, but if I should get my move to Fla, over with before you ready to put TFN out, I wouldn't mind having you throw my name in the pot as a tester. That is if I get moved and re-settled before you need testers, as otherwise, I might not be able to hold up my end of the bargain for you.
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:28 pm

Funny you mention Beta Testing actually. I'm thinking about handling Beta Testing a little differently than I did with CE. I always kind've liked how MMOs handled Beta Testing. Usually MMOs will hold a private Beta Testing event where you need to be invited, called Closed Beta. Then after the small team of people knock out alot of the bugs then the MMO will hold an Open Beta testing event where anyone can test.

For the Closed Beta I would pretty much have the developers and maybe one or two more people play TFN 1.0. After we figure out the majority of the bugs then I would announce an Open Beta testing from "this date" to "this date" where anyone who applies will be given the download location and code to unlock the file. It wouldn't be publicly advertised outside of the TCI forum so it would pretty much be restricted to the regulars who visit this site, and anyone who wanders in. After WE as a small community kill the rest of the bugs then the game would be publicly offered to download and be advertised.

Do you like this idea?
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Maximus1
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:38 pm

Sounds perfect!
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:39 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Do you like this idea?
Whatever makes your TCI development life easier, man, I say do that. We harp on this a lot, but you guys do this for nothing more than praise from the community and your own enjoyment, so, take a cue from Jack:" Ya do what ya gotta do."
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:40 pm

I Like it
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:32 pm

Cool I'm glad you guys like the idea. It really comes down to whether we encounter large problems or not. Swapping out the Camarilla clans for these Independent (and Laibon) clans changes everything. I could probably go through a list of 100 things we have to change from Havens, to dialogue choices, to side quests, main quests, bla bla bla because it otherwise wouldn't fit into the lore properly. It's nuts just how huge the TFN undertaking is getting.

Back in March when I had this idea I didn't realize just how much work this was going to be. I don't regret a second of it but I can honestly say I don't know if I would've taken this on had I known what it would've taken to complete. I do know I'll need a nice vacation from Bloodlines after we release (which I won't get due to bug fixing, lol).
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Childe of Munster
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:08 am

Zer0Morph wrote:
Cool I'm glad you guys like the idea. It really comes down to whether we encounter large problems or not. Swapping out the Camarilla clans for these Independent (and Laibon) clans changes everything. I could probably go through a list of 100 things we have to change from Havens, to dialogue choices, to side quests, main quests, bla bla bla because it otherwise wouldn't fit into the lore properly. It's nuts just how huge the TFN undertaking is getting.

Back in March when I had this idea I didn't realize just how much work this was going to be. I don't regret a second of it but I can honestly say I don't know if I would've taken this on had I known what it would've taken to complete. I do know I'll need a nice vacation from Bloodlines after we release (which I won't get due to bug fixing, lol).
You've pointed out the failings of a certain other mod which claims to allow playing alternate Clans, whereas that mod does little more than just put a different name on the same Disciplines and label them "New Clan Disciplines."
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:42 am

Sounds like a tremendous amount of work Z affraid I'm sure once it's finished it will be amazing Wink
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:06 pm

Childe of Munster wrote:

You've pointed out the failings of a certain other mod which claims to allow playing alternate Clans, whereas that mod does little more than just put a different name on the same Disciplines and label them "New Clan Disciplines."

Oh gosh don't even get me started on the epic failings of Offkorn's PnP mod... *tears* Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:09 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Childe of Munster wrote:

You've pointed out the failings of a certain other mod which claims to allow playing alternate Clans, whereas that mod does little more than just put a different name on the same Disciplines and label them "New Clan Disciplines."

Oh gosh don't even get me started on the epic failings of Offkorn's PnP mod... *tears* Rolling Eyes

I will. That mod made me think for a while that i could play with a Tzimisce Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:28 pm

PnP Mod... With recycled Disciplines only... Does it make it eco-friendly?
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:25 pm

LOL Feral!

Ya, I downloaded prepped and excited to play as a Ravnos, boy was I sorely disappointed... Sad
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:46 am

Feral wrote:
PnP Mod... With recycled Disciplines only... Does it make it eco-friendly?
Nope. It creates too much unnecessary carbondioxide production for additional cpu time, while downloading and then deleting it.

- geek

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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:40 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Feral wrote:
PnP Mod... With recycled Disciplines only... Does it make it eco-friendly?
Nope. It creates too much unnecessary carbondioxide production for additional cpu time, while downloading and then deleting it.

- geek
ROTFL. Ye, I see your point. Pays to be thorough, I haven't thought of it.
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PostSubject: Re: forgive my ignorance   Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:53 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Feral wrote:
PnP Mod... With recycled Disciplines only... Does it make it eco-friendly?
Nope. It creates too much unnecessary carbondioxide production for additional cpu time, while downloading and then deleting it.

- geek
and broken computers
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