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Velvet
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:59 am

I have a scientific background...
But then I branched off...

I feel like sentences are strands of a net and that meaning are fish.
If you want a small meaning, accurate, precise, you need many long sentence to capture it.
You know all too well that small pithy sentences can have many interpertrations, "big" meanings.
To narrowly, accurately, adequately capture a small definite meaning you need many strands of long sentences.

And none of my icons expressed aggravation, in fact one of them was oops, sorry for having allowed myself to get carried away.

One final barb Wink : as a scientist you know the value of redundancy? I mean in high risk high tech like airplanes and space shuttles.
If one of my sentences fails to acurately capture the meaning I want to impart, all of them together are sure to nail it.

Edit.
Claudia:
It's never nice to be criticized. But. Hey you need tough skin to withstand it. And you need to be able to discern when it is a constructive criticism. And I think I have both?
So, yeah, I made an effort to suit you... In my view you did have a point...
I do get carried away. Long winded. Not much caring for the rules of the language I am writing in, playing with them for effect.

I used to have high grades in high school. I went to england for a course on english for foreign speakers and I was in the highest grade. In my own country I went to a school of english for foreign speakers and I reached an advanced class. And I read a lot of english, I only read english.
But the formal learning of the formal rules was a long time ago. Since then I allow myself to play fast and loose with the rules for creative effect. As I know I can in my native language.

Claudia, no offense. But your not liking my grammar and syntax lies also a bit in you. A too strict adherence to the rules. Perhaps?
I admit to some flaws. But you seem particularly susceptible to them.
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:28 am

Velvet wrote:
I have a scientific background...
But then I branched off...

One final barb Wink : as a scientist you know the value of redundancy? I mean in high risk high tech like airplanes and space shuttles.
If one of my sentences fails to acurately capture the meaning I want to impart, all of them together are sure to nail it.

Well of course a certain degree of redundancy is good. But if a posting is more than about half a screen, I start reading it only "on the fly" without really paying attention anymore. So I'm sure to miss the finer points.

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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:29 pm

Voraxith wrote:
Runs and fetches the stick.

"Mine?"

*leans on front paws and readies for Tug of War*

Velvet wrote:

Claudia, no offense. But your not liking my grammar and syntax lies also a bit in you. A too strict adherence to the rules. Perhaps?
I admit to some flaws. But you seem particularly susceptible to them.

Ordnung muss sein. Language is an instrument of comunication, so we must obey the rules to understand each other. Flashy effects are secondary. Even if eye catching.
I appreciate creativity with words, but if getting the point of the writer becoms difficult, there is too much creativity.
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:53 pm

Velvet, you're not Baudelaire, you're not Rice either. I am not, either, and I am thr first one to say "fuck the rules !", but if you getting fancy with a language that you obviously do not master gets me zapping your post at worse or, like Childe, set my eyes on it in hopes of understanding the main point, at best, then it defeats the purpose of posting.

It's not about the content, it's about you getting very very complicated on what could be sumarized in two to three main points. Well we are not texting either, but this isn't a contest on who fills the most their posts
I also tend to repeat myself, but when I do, I write something like "let me rephrase myself", "in other words.." so when people read me, they know that if they got it the first time they do not need to go through it again.

I am frustrated when people do not make efforts to make themselves clear to be understood, simple words, simpl sentences and clear trail of thoughts. Get to the point ! And remember, English is my -third- lamguage. Fifth if we count Mexican argot and Latin.

No offense taken at all either don't worry ;-) I hope I don't offend you either ! I'm not succeptible, I want to underhand you. Thanks to Childe for having quote the paragraph, btw !
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:23 pm

And always remember, this is an international forum. So we have members from all over the world, with all kinds of background. And for most of them, english is only the second or third language.
So it's in everybodys best interest to keep the language as clear as possible. That helps avoiding misunderstandings.

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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:54 am

Everybody else: thanks for understanding and pointers, I will try to keep that in mind.

Voratrix: I also have formal training in french and practice it by reading it. Your sentence was incorrect, but I stll got the point of it.

I wouldn't have mentioned it at all. I have an ingrained self correct function that allows me to autocorrect vocabulary, syntax, grammar, poor sentence construction, without giving me pause. And I am good at processing texts, getting their point, their meaning, despite everything that everybody else has pointed out at me. And I always make allowances for personal idiosyncracies. You have never heard me criticize other people's english, right?

So.
Voratrix. You made all kinds of errors in vocabulary, grammar, syntax, sentence construction.....
But still I got your point easily, breezely.
I wouldn't have mentioned it, not have seen the point.
But since everybody seems keen to criticize my english I felt I should criticize your french.
In the same spirit, of course Wink



Edit:
Why has a forum on Vampire become a lesson in english, choosing me, I do feel singled out, as an example of what should not be done?
Me I have never bothered to criticize anybody else's english, even when I felt I had cause to. I got the point and responded to that, leaving any concerns of poor english to be sorted by my ingrained auto correct funtion.

Edit 2:
Let me rephrase: I had been inactive in the Forum in general, and in this thread in particular, for a very long time.
Since I became active again and posted on this thread, it stopped being a thread on the subject of the topic at hand, and begam being a criticism on my english.


I do so wish we could leave the question of my english to rest.


And please please could we come back to the issue at hand, the subject of the thread of this topic? Pretty please?
I do miss the discussion on how some gangrels could play this game, but a lot of Gangrel Bloodlines indeed could not.



one final barb:
Claudia I do love to right BloodLines, because Bloodlines is a word made out of the conjunction of two, Blood and Lines, as anglosaxonics are wont to do, and could easly be spelt Blood-Lines. But knowing of your sensibilities I ususally refrain from it, and only indulge that idiosyncracy in private texts like notes, absolutely not meant to be shared.


Last edited by Velvet on Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:01 am

It was.. A joke..
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:07 am

Well it has grown old.
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:28 am

I meant voraxith's text, being a joke. It's a joke about auto translating ; he used google translation to make that sentence. For me, Native French Speaker, it's wrong in the syntax and the order of the words (I mean, it looks like an auto translated text, I can, by reading that paragraphe, imagine what was the English paragraph ; but then again it's my job as a translator to notice that shit)).
I had posted before you edited your own post.



As for your English, well, when you get confused between right and write.. I mean, you can rant all you want about how writing Blood-Lines (or BloodLines, but then again putting capital letters in the midDlE of tHe WoRdS DoEsn'T mAke aNy sEnsE) looks better, because of the source words, it doesn't change the fact that the word is "bloodlines". As much as we have a word like kingdom instead of using the whole "the king's domain" group. Same for redheads (instead of people with red hair on their heads..). This is why, for us Latin-speakers (French, Italians, Portuguese, Spanish, and I'd go with Romanians, Hungarians too, but I won't bet on those), we say that English is a dummy language because it's so short, binary and simplistic.
It is. That's why it's so easy to learn, to practice on a daily basis. English is a practical "tool", it's not meant to be artsy and shit, that's why it's so flexible and it changes so much over time. While French, German and Spanish have more trouble changing and accepting new words and that's why "formal" language is so different than street language. And I don't mean curse words only, but also phrasing, verb tenses and all that shit.


You truly want for us to go back to ancient Greek and Latin as for the historical meaning of each word ? I can give you that. You truly want to go there ?

I'm no Umberto Eco, but I can make people having to read a text with a dictionnary and an encyclopedia next to them to truly understand it all meanings, stakes and all in a text.


Edit : now that I am on my computer and not on the telephone, maybe I'll try to be "softer".
I do not wish to make you feel bad on your English, your English level is good (you use vocabulary, you know the words, you don't make tense mistakes...).
My problem with your posts is that you're thinking in Portuguese, and you translate as it comes, without reading yourself again. You have to stop that, and begin thinking in English, with short simple sentences, easy tenses to use, and clear ideas to expose.
Because you do not try to imagine that we are not in your head, following your ideas, it makes me (and some others), just zap the post because you don't go to the point.
I am repeating myself, because I have already written all this earlier, on other posts.... But you don't seem to get it, this is why I'm frustrated.

I know you can do a helluva lot better than that... and you're working on it, I see it ! It's good ! But as Childe said, we are not all firsthand English speakers. Most of us are not. And we are all making efforts to make ourselves clear, concise, understandable, by everybody alike.
Sure we make typos, sure I never know how many M there are in "Commitment", sure I can forget an S somewhere... But I'm half sure all people here read my posts and see the point. Even in my ver long rants, because I reread myself, I frown, I change the order of my sentences and I make sure each of my sentences make sense.. And that the trail of thought is clear.

It comes with practice Smile


Last edited by Claudia on Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:07 pm

Voraxith wrote:
*Growls at Feral and lays claim to his prize.* MY stick! Not yours. Bad doggie!

*Tilts head to the side and looks at Voraxith, all suprised*

Er, what was this thread about, anyway?
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:01 pm

The fact that "proper stereotypical" Gangrels should not care at all about wtf happens in the city.
But without Gangrels, we would be bored.

*throws a second stick*
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:32 am

BloodLines was meant as an private injoke, I hastened to add that I would never use it publicly, only in private.
But I appreciate the lesson in english that that little joke triggered.
I do try, and I am glad you acknowlege that I have been trying.
Gosh I have days and days.
Sometimes my fingers get the better of me.
Sometimes it is hard for me to string two words together in a sentence.
And other people do sometimes get long winded, and other people's mastery of english is not so good.
And I... well there have been arguments about it with others, but this went on for quite a while, no?
I admire Eliza, who tries her darndest and still apologizes for falling short.
Lets call truce: I will try better, and you will give me more leniency when I fall short, hey?
Because both are needed: effort on the side of the posters, but leniency from the side of the readers.
Edit:
And my edit and reply was adequate, I did feel that Voraxith's joke had grown old.
End Edit

Back on topic:
I did have a point in posting this new topic: that most Gangrel wouldn't be found here "playing this game".
But apparently at least one of their bloodlines would? "City"?
I would like to learn more about the issue of this topic: to which degree Gangrels would be found here or not, which bloodlines would, which wouldn't, and more details about both.

Edit
I answered Claudia, not aware that other peole had posted afterwards.
Voraxith. Right.
See? I read in an intuitive manner, almost as if I saw the whole sentence and got the meaning of it without having to slog through the whole of it word for word. Of course, sometimes I make dyslexic mistakes, like misreading your name. And for that I apologize.
Also my reply was meant as a joke. Of sorts. Dark humor.
Since everybody seemed keen on criticizing my english, I wanted to make others feel like I do by criticizing your french, make you fell like I do.
But I guess my counter prolonged the conflict while your joke was offered as peace offer. And for that I apologize.
Friends? Peace?

And now do tell all about whatever you want to do with Gangrel. Either making them more suitable to this game, or making mods more suitable for them.
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:48 am

The Malkavian girl in me gives you a too tight hug and a peck on the forehead and then giggles hysterically in embarassment.
Aww forgiveness and peace on earth!!!

Thank you for enlightening me on Gangrel, their general mythos and how would they relate to this game.

And I for one am keen on playing those mods you suggest, if you ever get around to emplace them.
Or perhaps recruit a more experienced modder that would emplace your suggestions?
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:32 pm

Voraxith,
your ideas sound good. If it was possible to swap disciplines via histories, I'd already have made a history for City Gangrel. Actually, you can add or remove disciplines, using histories, but you can't spend xp on a discipline added by history... Sad
A few questions though.
What use would Earth Meld be in Bloodlines? Afaik, it's mostly used for daylight rest, if you don't have any other sunproof shelter while travelling. Or would it be fast enough to be some kind of Obfuscate 1?

Do you have any idea, how to implement Mist Form? I'm not talking about the model now, that's only a minor issue. It would involve floating and going through the tiniest cracks or keyholes. The only way I see for making this possible in the game is by using "noclip" And then more often than not, you'd end up completely out of the mapped area, or being stuck in the floor or some wall when you end the discipline.

When you are experienced enough to have specific questions, or need a python function scripted, don't hesitate to send me a pm.
As general advice. First you need a better text-editor than notepad. I'm using Notepad++; it's free, it recognizes (and highlites) python syntax, and you can even open BSP files (maps). Then you can use the extended search facilities on the map file.
Dheu's manual is really good, but due to its vast size, it is better suited as a reference manual for the experienced modder, than as a tutorial for the beginner.

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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:35 pm

Voraxith wrote:

Peace in the Middle East, homez! lol!
Maybe we send them some pizza? Pizza make people come together. lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:42 pm

The only way to save the middle east is to bomb them with pot and girls in bikinis. nuff said
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:33 pm

Voraxith wrote:
Peace in the Middle East, homez!

Those damned Virginians!
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm

ThePhilosopher wrote:
The only way to save the middle east is to bomb them with pot and girls in bikinis. nuff said
I don't believe these guys could be appeased by it. They would probably start to fight for the pot, before they light the first pipe...

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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:08 am

Voraxith why not write your own Fan Fiction?

And how does the misty creature that substituted the blood creature at the Gallery Noir in TFN work?
Couldn't Mist Form work the same way?
(sorry but right now I cannot remember their names...)
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:39 am

I'm not sure, exactly how Zer0 did the shade, but it still has a solid model in it, surronded by lots of particles. Else you wouldn't be able to hit it with weapons. So the shade probably isn't the right way to do a mistform.

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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:34 am

Voraxith wrote:
PGM1961 wrote:
Those damned Virginians!

WTF??? This one of those references I mentioned I might not get?

In Bloodlines, on the radio in your haven, a guy calls in to "The Deb Of Night" who is totally stoned, talking about that 'problem in the Middle East'. Deb answers, "Yes, those damned Virginians!" (i.e. middle eastern U.S.A.) but the guy totally misses the joke. Then he goes on to talk about his peace plan, which is pizza and weed for everyone.

I was just curious who would get the reference. Nobody, I guess. Apparently I'm the only one who's played enough to have even the radio segments memorized.
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:46 am

I have got that pizza joke on Middle East from somwhere... Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:11 pm

Of course I got the joke. Just didn't think a comment on it would be necessary. I must have heard every piece of Deb about a million times by now.
You know, I was a Vampire too. And then it was November 1st.

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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:13 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:

You know, I was a Vampire too. And then it was November 1st.

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That I don't get... Next round of XP goes to Perception and Wits. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Gangrel Misplaced in Bloodlines   Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:20 pm

Halloween...
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