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 Diablerie!!! (question mark)

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Velvet
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PostSubject: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:40 am

to put it most simply:
isn't force feeding from a vampire foe until you drain it to dispose of it in a combat situation tantamount to diablerie?

and if so, isn't diablerie considered a grave sin?
and moreover shouldn't there be consequences?
and which?



for my part every single time i have played the game i have always considered feeding from other vampires tabboo.
even in hallowbrook hotel, where both sabbat vampires and there ghouls are raining on you bent on killing you, i first make sure to discriminate between which is which, then kill the vampire by other means, and only then turn on the ghouls and dispose of them through feeding from them, also as a means to replenish my bloodpool, drained both from bloodloss and the use of disciplines.
that includes the use of ToV when i'm playing a Tremere.
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Feral
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:13 am

In game there are no penalties for draining your opponents, which I find odd. Nevertheless, I forcefeed on enemies all the time, to replenish my bloodpool. In PnP I would end up getting Blood Hunt on my sore arse after five to ten minutes of plaing. Technically speaking draining may be among more common methods of killing foes I use, and surely was the most common in VTMR. I know it is wrong from the lore point of view, but as there is no punishment... Though I think there should be, for the sake of staing true to the lore, if anything else.
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ThePhilosopher
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:58 pm

You can't drain other vampires in Bloodlines, not even thin bloods. You can drain ghouls, but they don't give anything special like diablerie does.(in PnP)
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Childe of Munster
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:20 pm

To echo ThePhilosopher's comments, I've never been able to feed on a vampire. You can in Redemption, but only on two occasions are you actually Diablerizing them (the rest of the time the result is no different from hacking them to pieces with your Holy Adamantine Chainsword), and one is at end-game. So only once during the course of the game are you really "Diablerizing" in any meaningful way.
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ThePhilosopher
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:58 pm

I still desire with my whole heart that diablerie will some day be implemented in VtmB Razz
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:33 pm

Then you'll probably have to make a Sabbat mod. Everybody else, Camarilla or not, will probably hunt you down, if you get caught

- geek

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Tuesday is Soylent Green day.
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Claudia
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:44 pm

Except if you have a major boon..

In Bloodlines anyway you can't feed on vampires, so you can't have a diablerie.
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ThePhilosopher
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:48 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
Then you'll probably have to make a Sabbat mod. Everybody else, Camarilla or not, will probably hunt you down, if you get caught

- geek

I just as might do one Razz

Congratz on Antediluvian title, you must now change your name to Malkav
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Maximus1
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:03 pm

Grats Malkav on making Antediluvian cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:31 pm

Well, I keep draining the Sabbat, and you are saing I'm not actualy diablerizing them, Philosopher? I don't get something, I think... OK, I'm not actualy lowering my generation or gaining new powers, but I definitely suck them dry...
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Childe of Munster
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:33 pm

Feral wrote:
Well, I keep draining the Sabbat, and you are saing I'm not actualy diablerizing them, Philosopher? I don't get something, I think...
The knife-wielding assholes in the zippered, hooded sweatshirts are Ghouls (and the eyeless ones are just Blooddolls).
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:40 pm

That Gangrel in a Warform didn't seem to be a Ghoul... And I did him in once with a Nossie. Got threads between my teeth Laughing
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Childe of Munster
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:46 pm

Feral wrote:
That Gangrel in a Warform didn't seem to be a Ghoul... And I did him in once with a Nossie. Got threads between my teeth Laughing
Really? I've never been able to do that, despite trying every once in a while, just to see. Maybe it's just really, really, really hard to feed on a vampire, but if your Unarmed Feat is through the roof, you can do it?
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:10 pm

Unarmed was quite high, and Obfuscate too... It was quite a while ago, but I think there was that red bar (bloodindicator) at the top of the screen. It was more luck than wits anyways. But there are easier ones. I always feed of the Malks in Grout's mansion. And they surely aren't ghouls.
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Childe of Munster
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:21 pm

Feral wrote:
Unarmed was quite high, and Obfuscate too... It was quite a while ago, but I think there was that red bar (bloodindicator) at the top of the screen. It was more luck than wits anyways. But there are easier ones. I always feed of the Malks in Grout's mansion. And they surely aren't ghouls.
They are also not Kindred.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:25 pm

So what are they? They are insane, tough, I always took them for Malkavians.
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Childe of Munster
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:31 pm

Feral wrote:
So what are they? They are insane, tough, I always took them for Malkavians.
They are insane humans. The males have sharp-clawed Freddy Kruger-esque gloves, which is why they do aggravated damage.


Last edited by Childe of Munster on Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:34 pm

So my only diablerie might just be an accident? Or maybe even result of a glitch? Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:39 pm

Feral wrote:
So my only diablerie might just be an accident? Or maybe even result of a glitch? Sad
Or maybe if your character has an extremely high Unarmed Feat, it's actually possible. I have never played a character with an Unarmed Feat beyond 9 or 10 (I go for Melee), even accounting for boosts to Unarmed caused by Disciplines.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:08 pm

Unarmed is capped at 20, if I'm not mistaken... With Nossies and especially Gangrel I like to get it up quickly. Works great.
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PGM1961
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:51 am

I've never been able to feed from a vampire in Bloodlines. If your character has Auspex, you can see which ones are ghouls, and which are vampires. Use Auspex in the tutorial sometime... you'll see this weird, purplish aura around Jack. Same for the cabbie, Brother Kanker, Bishop Vick, etc.

Humans normally have a white aura, changing to blue if they're looking for you, and red if they're attacking. The guys with the hoodies in Hallowbrook, the crazies in Grout's mansion, the Chinese guys in Ming Xiao's Temple... all ghouls.

Now I'm going to have to try and feed on a vampire, just to see if I can do it with a high Unarmed feat. You made me curious. I'm still betting I won't be able to, though.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:33 am

I will have to play a clan with Auspex then. As I play Gangrel, Nosferatu and Brujah most often only way to sense the difference is by taste, which is quite hard Laughing I have played Tremere, Malkavian and Toreador and haven't checked, shame. I don't seem to use Auspex much even if I have it.
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Velvet
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:31 am

i think the males in Grout's Mansion are also Ghouls, humans on whom Grout has been conducting psychiatric experiments and so have been rendered bestial in behavior.

and now i got confused.
can you or can't you feed from other vampires in bloodlines?
as it is, it would appear that you can in the sense that the game allows, there is no inbuilt tabboo, it is only just damned hard as to be near impossible, not only very high brawl for high force feed but also to catch him by surprise through obfuscate.

on that subject, i have never been able to kill Chastity, the hunter in the peep show, through force feeding from her, not even after disabling her either with Dominate or Thaumaturgy or Dementate and then crouching and approaching her from an angle where stealth kill is possible. i just couldn't. now it is clear to me, i never had brawl high enough, so i could never force feed from her.

anyway, i seem to be answered in this: if i were to do it, even to dispose of the sabat at hallowbrook hotel, it would be considered a crime worthy of a blood hunt by the camarilla.

so, the question remains: shouldn't the game keep track of that and impose consequences? like, as soon as i leave hallowbrook hotel i find vampires out to get me? as it happens with police and criminal violations or hunters and masquerade violations?

anyway to me this are rethorical questions: as i said, when i am playing i consider that a tabboo. ghouls and blood dolls are game for force feeding in hallowbrook hotel, mercifully it is easy to tell them apart from the vampires, and i am sure every living person in grout's mansion is a ghoul. hunters are also fair game, they are humans that are against vampirehood, they deserve the poetic justice of being fed upon. but, vampires? off limits.

and while i'm here, i also never force feed from the monsters in the nosferatu warrens. I consider their blood unclean.

and zombie blood, i read in a walkthrough that it makes you vomit, not that i ever felt tempted to try. urgh.

on that account, i always felt myself limited in the use of ToV when i played a tremere, and also i always got the feeling that the kine i was feeding upon would panic, run away, and break ToV, interrupting my feeding upon him - that or he would attack me, which would ALSO break ToV. theoreticaly i find it very useful, in practice i always felt it didn't measure up to my expectations.
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Velvet
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:36 am

PGM1961

i always felt the purplish glow indicated NPCs that you can talk to, not anything pertaining to their nature.
i am pretty sure the sabbat vamps in the hallowbrook hotel don't glow purplish.
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PostSubject: Re: Diablerie!!! (question mark)   Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:54 pm

I'm absolutely positive that you can't feed on vampires. I've tried many times and never succeeded. Maybe I've missed something. If you manage to do it please make a screenshot.
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