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 Anyone ever wonder..?

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Nezumi
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PostSubject: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:55 am

How your character is capable of taking down a were-shark with little to no help yet they can't even touch a were-wolf? Having resource books for the W:TA side of WOD I notice that really the sharks are as powerful as wolves, heck just touching their bestial forms causes aggravated damage because of the shark skin...


I realise that this was brought in to give players an idea of other shape-shifters of Asian decent but still, kinda seems a little odd...

for reference:

Were shark war form:
Strength (+4)
Dexterity (-2)
Stamina (+3)

Unarmed attacks cause that attacker to take aggravated damage equal to their own strength - 1

Bite +3 Str
Fin Slash +1 Str

Were wolf war form:
Strength (+4)
Dexterity (+1)
Stamina (+3)
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PGM1961
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:25 am

That's a good point. I guess the designers figured that the werewolf is in his element in Griffith Park, while the Hengeyokai is literally a fish out of water in Chinatown... especially since I always use those --

SPOILERS!!

-- big tanks of freon or whatever along the walls to freeze him in place for a few seconds while I 'whale' away on him. (hehe love puns) Not that Mr. Zygaena is easy to take out, by any means. I think he's tougher than any Boss except Ming Xiao. He does a lot of aggravated damage, which requires 'Blood Heal' to be running constantly. Also, it takes me longer to fight him than it does the Sheriff.

That is, if you don't count the time that the Sheriff is flying around, out of reach. Once bat-boy is down in the spotlights, you can take out nearly a third of his health levels/HP/whatever before he recovers, if you're using a good melee weapon.

But it has always annoyed me that the werewolf is immune to any damage except the Observatory doors. I mean, even if my attacks do almost no damage, some things should hurt him; like the flamethrower, for instance. You can light his ass on fire, and the damage floaters are going "0... 0... 0..." (I usually leave them off, but I turned them back on once just to see if I could hurt him at all.) Maybe Troika figured that the fire is causing Mr. Lupine to frenzy and ignore all of your damage. I don't know.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:52 am

PGM1961 wrote:
That's a good point. I guess the designers figured that the werewolf is in his element in Griffith Park, while the Hengeyokai is literally a fish out of water in Chinatown... especially since I always use those --

SPOILERS!!

-- big tanks of freon or whatever along the walls to freeze him in place for a few seconds while I 'whale' away on him. (hehe love puns) Not that Mr. Zygaena is easy to take out, by any means. I think he's tougher than any Boss except Ming Xiao. He does a lot of aggravated damage, which requires 'Blood Heal' to be running constantly. Also, it takes me longer to fight him than it does the Sheriff.

That is, if you don't count the time that the Sheriff is flying around, out of reach. Once bat-boy is down in the spotlights, you can take out nearly a third of his health levels/HP/whatever before he recovers, if you're using a good melee weapon.

But it has always annoyed me that the werewolf is immune to any damage except the Observatory doors. I mean, even if my attacks do almost no damage, some things should hurt him; like the flamethrower, for instance. You can light his ass on fire, and the damage floaters are going "0... 0... 0..." (I usually leave them off, but I turned them back on once just to see if I could hurt him at all.) Maybe Troika figured that the fire is causing Mr. Lupine to frenzy and ignore all of your damage. I don't know.

In truth I tend to just unload automatic fire into our fishy friend. As for the werewolf not taking damage perhaps they decided it was irreverent since all 'were' creatures regenerate 1 point of health per turn except aggravated..(well all except Kitsune..) So damage would just heal before you could really hurt the bugger. Still that should also count for the were shark so I pretend to myself that our little hunter has some ability that disables his regeneration, though I've never read of any abilities that do so...
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glAssbOy
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:56 am

I'm also inclined to agree with PGM1961's observation.

But I also got another interpretation...

Yukie, the quest giver is basically treated a joke character. Kind of a "take that to" anime - Japanese animation - in general. And since V:tMB was designed to appeal more to casual gamers - like me and because such players I think are a larger market - they didn't bother with it too much. Since most casual gamers would just play and not research the mythos of a certain game.

Honestly, I thought the whole wereshark / landshark was just another crazy joke to the "weird" monsters found in anime. That was until I checked some online source materials.

I suppose they didn't put a tentacle monster early on, which could have been more appropriate as a joke, because it might kind of a be a letdown when it comes to fighting Ming-Xiao...

But a part of me is thankful that Ming wasn't a full blown tentacle monster.
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PGM1961
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:05 am

glAssbOy wrote:
I suppose they didn't put a tentacle monster early on, which could have been more appropriate as a joke, because it might kind of a be a letdown when it comes to fighting Ming-Xiao...

But a part of me is thankful that Ming wasn't a full blown tentacle monster.

No kidding. Along with gems of wisdom like "Don't drop the soap in the prison shower," you can also add, "Don't fight an Asian tentacle monster while wearing a skirt or kilt."

lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:02 am

I didn't know the Landshark thing was even part of the Lore at all, nice to know, I always thought that part of the game was kind've stupid, lol.

For the werewolf, I agree and I've taken the werewolf off of GOD Mode for TFN so you can hurt or even kill him by regular means now. Don't get me wrong, he's still incredibly powerful, as he should be, but he's killable without using the doors.
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nocturne.haarlem
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:24 am

glAssbOy wrote:
I'm also inclined to agree with PGM1961's observation.

But I also got another interpretation...

Yukie, the quest giver is basically treated a joke character. Kind of a "take that to" anime - Japanese animation - in general. And since V:tMB was designed to appeal more to casual gamers - like me and because such players I think are a larger market - they didn't bother with it too much. Since most casual gamers would just play and not research the mythos of a certain game.

Honestly, I thought the whole wereshark / landshark was just another crazy joke to the "weird" monsters found in anime. That was until I checked some online source materials.

I suppose they didn't put a tentacle monster early on, which could have been more appropriate as a joke, because it might kind of a be a letdown when it comes to fighting Ming-Xiao...

But a part of me is thankful that Ming wasn't a full blown tentacle monster.

Hehe, i have also thought the quest of Yukie to be somewhat of an joke in an otherwise rather splendid storyline. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:43 am

Zer0Morph wrote:
For the werewolf, I agree and I've taken the werewolf off of GOD Mode for TFN so you can hurt or even kill him by regular means now. Don't get me wrong, he's still incredibly powerful, as he should be, but he's killable without using the doors.

YES! I've been waiting to bust the wolfie's hairy ass with my Steyr AUG ever since I detected he gulped those bullets down like chocolate cookies, and now I really, really, really can't wait to get to that part of the game. Hoho, I see some very ugly deaths coming for our furry 'friend' here. Twisted Evil

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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:47 am

Nezumi wrote:
PGM1961 wrote:
That's a good point. I guess the designers figured that the werewolf is in his element in Griffith Park, while the Hengeyokai is literally a fish out of water in Chinatown... especially since I always use those --

SPOILERS!!

-- big tanks of freon or whatever along the walls to freeze him in place for a few seconds while I 'whale' away on him. (hehe love puns) Not that Mr. Zygaena is easy to take out, by any means. I think he's tougher than any Boss except Ming Xiao. He does a lot of aggravated damage, which requires 'Blood Heal' to be running constantly. Also, it takes me longer to fight him than it does the Sheriff.

That is, if you don't count the time that the Sheriff is flying around, out of reach. Once bat-boy is down in the spotlights, you can take out nearly a third of his health levels/HP/whatever before he recovers, if you're using a good melee weapon.

But it has always annoyed me that the werewolf is immune to any damage except the Observatory doors. I mean, even if my attacks do almost no damage, some things should hurt him; like the flamethrower, for instance. You can light his ass on fire, and the damage floaters are going "0... 0... 0..." (I usually leave them off, but I turned them back on once just to see if I could hurt him at all.) Maybe Troika figured that the fire is causing Mr. Lupine to frenzy and ignore all of your damage. I don't know.

In truth I tend to just unload automatic fire into our fishy friend. As for the werewolf not taking damage perhaps they decided it was irreverent since all 'were' creatures regenerate 1 point of health per turn except aggravated..(well all except Kitsune..) So damage would just heal before you could really hurt the bugger. Still that should also count for the were shark so I pretend to myself that our little hunter has some ability that disables his regeneration, though I've never read of any abilities that do so...

well and how come Nines could kill the werewolf with his bare hands? and u can't even scratch him with a bush hook/tal blade/steyr AUG/Flamethrower ?.. kinda stupid in my way of seeing this
good job from zer0 puttin him to killable mode in TFN.. my hopes are so damn high for TFN that i would suicide if it "were" bad.. lol as it could ever be bad Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:53 am

So much one-sided enmity in you, in regard of the werewolf. I always regretted it is imposible to make friends with him and give him LaCroix's adress... Or at least get an inteligent Gangrel - Werewolf conversation.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:51 am

We'll be able to kill the werewolf now? Alright! No more running around the map screaming like a little girl!
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:36 pm

simison wrote:
We'll be able to kill the werewolf now? Alright! No more running around the map screaming like a little girl!


Ay but the tension you feel at that time is also gone. Can't say I am all for making him unkillable.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:56 pm

First:Release your flamethrower on the wereshark and BAM! he is over in secondsSecondly:I totally agree to take off the god mode of the werewolf, because killing a werewolf all on your own, stopping to see his dead body and beign in awe with your own strengh would be very pleasurable. Of course some purists woulnd't agree, since werewolfs are far more stronger than average Kindred.But i think the werewolf should have disciplines such as Fortitude and Potence in order to make him virtually untouched for a limited amount of time, making the "running away like a little girl" a necessity in some parts. Ya know, not to lose the habbit Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:07 pm

I never thought the tension would evaporate if you made him killable. After all, they're not exactly taking his claws away.

So, from that point on, I'll be dumping lead into him, while running around the map screaming like a girl. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:50 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
I didn't know the Landshark thing was even part of the Lore at all, nice to know, I always thought that part of the game was kind've stupid, lol.

For the werewolf, I agree and I've taken the werewolf off of GOD Mode for TFN so you can hurt or even kill him by regular means now. Don't get me wrong, he's still incredibly powerful, as he should be, but he's killable without using the doors.

Shouldn't have given that one away. The suddenly diminishing life bar above the Werewolf's name would've been a wonderful surprise. Sad
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PGM1961
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:20 pm

z.o.o. wrote:
Shouldn't have given that one away. The suddenly diminishing life bar above the Werewolf's name would've been a wonderful surprise. Sad

I'm glad to know it. Otherwise I might not have found out. I've grown so used to not being able to hit him, that I don't even try anymore. I don't expect it to be easy... I fully expect to die if I slug it out toe-to-toe with a werewolf. But to use the cramped quarters in the observatory to my advantage is another matter. This will be so COOL!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:20 pm

z.o.o. wrote:
Shouldn't have given that one away. The suddenly diminishing life bar above the Werewolf's name would've been a wonderful surprise. Sad

Thing is, I doubt anyone would care to even level a gun toward him, let alone try to attack in melee. Even if so, they may not see the effect if they don't deal enough damage.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:32 pm

Ooh ooh, Malkav... can you do this for the next version of CE as well? I'd love to take a Ventrue or Gangrel up against him. Some clan with Fortitude.

Feral, I'm sorry I'm so eager to hurt your wolf buddy. But he's been slicing me up for six years for setting that fire, and I'm innocent... LaCroix's people started it. Pushing a button and watching the doors squoosh him like a bug are not the kind of payback I'm looking for. I want something a little more personal. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:23 pm

I'm sorry Zoo, people were talking about it and I guess I just got wrapped up in the fun!

To all: I promise though the Werewolf will be killable, he won't be easy. In fact only the most powerful of builds will even have the slightest chance to take this mug down. Also I plan on scripting some sort of reward, probably in the form of XP for those who CAN take out Wolfie (Not using the doors)... and for the rest of you, running around screaming like a little girl will still net you a little bit of XP, LOL.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:33 pm

Yay! cheers *starts practicing the run*
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:41 pm

i will use my full power build and strike him down with one stroke Very Happy no seriously i wanna challenge this challenge^^
sidequestion: due to me starting steam after ages i noticed the achievement things... well is it possible to add an achievement system which perhaps will give boni? like getting MAX XP in 1 playthrough will grant you for +1XP whenever you get 3 or more so you can play the game through with other choices which would result in less XP.. or killing 10000 enemies with a weapon will result in getting the weapon (max is in firearms up till Glock 17 and melee Shin Guto) in the Tutorial quest or in your heaven and sth like this^^ and killing the werewolf will give you "mixed blood" so you have 1 more blood point or feeding is twice as effective for the rest of that game^^ (yea i have always some crazy ideas... (and yea i seek true power.. i wanna be the best though^^))
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:29 pm

Shabutaro wrote:
i will use my full power build and strike him down with one stroke Very Happy no seriously i wanna challenge this challenge^^
sidequestion: due to me starting steam after ages i noticed the achievement things... well is it possible to add an achievement system which perhaps will give boni? like getting MAX XP in 1 playthrough will grant you for +1XP whenever you get 3 or more so you can play the game through with other choices which would result in less XP.. or killing 10000 enemies with a weapon will result in getting the weapon (max is in firearms up till Glock 17 and melee Shin Guto) in the Tutorial quest or in your heaven and sth like this^^ and killing the werewolf will give you "mixed blood" so you have 1 more blood point or feeding is twice as effective for the rest of that game^^ (yea i have always some crazy ideas... (and yea i seek true power.. i wanna be the best though^^))

Shabutaro, you realize this is a single player game and not an MMO right? LOL Laughing

Sorry no Achievement System, you'll have to play Clan Quest Mod for that... Crying or Very sad
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PGM1961
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:24 am

All giddiness aside, I'm glad you mentioned this, Zer0. Seriously, I would've never found this out during the game. I never have those damage floaters turned on-- those floating numbers annoy me more than I can say. How can you immerse yourself in the game if a number floats up every time you hit someone? Also, I haven't taken a swing at the werewolf since 2005. What's the point? Even if a damage bar is at the top of the screen, I might not notice, since I'm only concentrating on running to the power switch and back to the observatory.

This part of the game has become mechanical. My pride is the only thing that stops me from using the console and skipping to the next section. But now, Zer0Morph has changed that. Thank you, sir. Your awesomeness knows no bounds.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:02 am

Zer0Morph wrote:
Shabutaro wrote:
i will use my full power build and strike him down with one stroke Very Happy no seriously i wanna challenge this challenge^^
sidequestion: due to me starting steam after ages i noticed the achievement things... well is it possible to add an achievement system which perhaps will give boni? like getting MAX XP in 1 playthrough will grant you for +1XP whenever you get 3 or more so you can play the game through with other choices which would result in less XP.. or killing 10000 enemies with a weapon will result in getting the weapon (max is in firearms up till Glock 17 and melee Shin Guto) in the Tutorial quest or in your heaven and sth like this^^ and killing the werewolf will give you "mixed blood" so you have 1 more blood point or feeding is twice as effective for the rest of that game^^ (yea i have always some crazy ideas... (and yea i seek true power.. i wanna be the best though^^))

Shabutaro, you realize this is a single player game and not an MMO right? LOL Laughing

Sorry no Achievement System, you'll have to play Clan Quest Mod for that... Crying or Very sad

what does this have to do with MMO or not? There are SP games with achievement systems.. and i dind't even know CQM had some Very Happy well to bad^^ maybe i try moddin myself and give myself an achievement system Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:56 am

Sounds like a good thing then.. A killable Were wolf would make it much more interesting anyway.

As for making friends with him, having a Werewolf background in the WOD system tells me you're almost dealing with a frenzied creature at this stage. I assume this guy's sept (gathering place) was in that fire so you're lucky the whole tribe isn't converging upon NY for this atrocity!

Though really one has to ignore lore a little for these games or your little bullets would just heal as fast as you shot them..
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