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 Anyone ever wonder..?

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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:00 am

Bad news guys... man this is gonna be a big let down. I shouldn't have made the announcement until I tested further, but last night as I was working on the Werewolf making him killable, well, I succeeded, however there is no death animation for him. When you kill him, he freezes in place and you can walk through him, apparently he wasn't meant to die because they never made an animation for him.

I don't know what to say other than I'm sorry for saying that it could be done. Sad
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Shabutaro
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:18 am

well personally i don't care if he has an animation or not.. so maybe you can make it in the installer to choose "werewolf killable, but no animation" and "werewolf the normal way" or sth..
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Feral
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:16 am

How hard would it be to make such animation? Sorry for silly question.
@ Zer0: Congrats on Cain's Progeny! In a little while you will get to be the Dark Father. Heavy shit, man Twisted Evil
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PGM1961
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:11 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Bad news guys... man this is gonna be a big let down. I shouldn't have made the announcement until I tested further, but last night as I was working on the Werewolf making him killable, well, I succeeded, however there is no death animation for him. When you kill him, he freezes in place and you can walk through him, apparently he wasn't meant to die because they never made an animation for him.

I don't know what to say other than I'm sorry for saying that it could be done. Sad

Can't you use the animation for when the Observatory doors crush him? Granted, it would still look funny with him hanging in mid-air, but better than standing frozen.

However, even if he just stands there, I'm still excited just to get a shot at him. You're having to work with the limitations of a prototype version of the Source engine, with lots of bugs. We all know that. You, Malkav, and Wesp5 have fixed so many bugs that one uncooperative werewolf is no big deal.
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ThePhilosopher
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:56 pm

Ya, make him killable anyway, even if the animations are not cooperative Razz
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Maxus Corvin
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:26 pm

I'd suggest that he ash when you kill him, but since he doesn't do that when he's killed by the doors, then that probably isn't how werewolf's die in oWOD. Is it possible to change how fast he disappears(if he would at all)?
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simison
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:34 pm

I'm not picky about the animations!
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ThePhilosopher
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:58 pm

On another thought, you could simply remove him when he dies, right? Like, no anymation at all, he simply vanishes.

Either that or the common death to ash animation, if it's possible to put one animation on a character who does not have it.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:19 pm

Feral wrote:
How hard would it be to make such animation? Sorry for silly question.
@ Zer0: Congrats on Cain's Progeny! In a little while you will get to be the Dark Father. Heavy shit, man Twisted Evil

How hard would it be? Well for me? Pretty hard considering I've never made animations before. Honestly making animations has never been a high priority on my list of things to accomplish with TFN, ok actually it's never been on my list at all. LOL

I've read the posts past this one and I think I've settled on handling the werewolf this way. He will have the damage bar above his head and he will be killable, however I will be using the default Werewolf_NPC Class making him nearly invunerable by normal weapons. The best way to take this thing down will be with offensive disciplines.

I'm really going for professionalism with TFN, as we did with CE so it really bothers me knowing that his death results in a frozen hologram for the remainder of the timer. I've tried the Ash Vampire death and it didn't work which is fine because I probably wouldn't have used it. Ash deaths are for Vamps, not Lycans.

I hope this is ok with everyone. Yes he will be killable, No I don't think anyone will be powerful enough to do it.
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simison
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:22 pm

Suits me just fine.
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PGM1961
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:18 am

The difference between 'nearly invulnerable' and 'God mode' is the difference between 'fair' and 'unfair'. I can accept that he's a 9-foot tornado of teeth and claws, because that's in the PnP rules.

I admire your professionalism, but you are working under the limitations of the game. Nobody expects you to hire a team of animators merely to render a werewolf death scene. If you must work on an animation, work on a nude Jeanette riding my character like a cowgirl. Wink

Have you thought about having the werewolf turn into a nearly-naked human, and then keeling over with a death gurgle? I mean, they do turn back into human form upon death, right? (Unless they were born as a wolf, and that's getting a little too technical for this game.)
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:34 am

PGM1961 wrote:
The difference between 'nearly invulnerable' and 'God mode' is the difference between 'fair' and 'unfair'. I can accept that he's a 9-foot tornado of teeth and claws, because that's in the PnP rules.

I admire your professionalism, but you are working under the limitations of the game. Nobody expects you to hire a team of animators merely to render a werewolf death scene. If you must work on an animation, work on a nude Jeanette riding my character like a cowgirl. Wink

Have you thought about having the werewolf turn into a nearly-naked human, and then keeling over with a death gurgle? I mean, they do turn back into human form upon death, right? (Unless they were born as a wolf, and that's getting a little too technical for this game.)

With that idea in mind I couldn't care less for the werewolf.

Bring on Jeanette doing the cowgirl! bounce

On a serious note, I never had any experience with WOD. If werewolves are really difficult to kill, I guess just go with it then. Now, I might sound like a spoilsport but in gaming terms, the werewolf is basically a "puzzle" boss; it can only be killed by something in the environment and not weapons. With the timer added, it also reeks of a survival mission type in some RTS games. I know CE is all about changing the game, but um...up to what extent?
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ThePhilosopher
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:15 am

Everyone is tired from running like a little girl for 5-6 years, glassboy. And since only the powerbuilders will have any chance to kill the werewolf, why not make it killable? Razz

Also, it's not on CE, but TFN
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:06 am

I agree PGM, just knowing that he's not invulnerable makes the difference to me personally. Tough yes but not indestructable should hopefully sit well with most fans. I did actually think about him transforming back into a half naked human but I'm not sure how I'd go about it from the technical side. It's a good idea if it were possible.

I do like the Jeanette riding the character like a cowgirl idea the most though!! HAHA I love you
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8people
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:07 pm

If he has no death animation, how about making him flee when his health hits minimum?

"Run and tell your friends, you glorified rug!"
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ThePhilosopher
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:12 pm

8people wrote:
If he has no death animation, how about making him flee when his health hits minimum?

"Run and tell your friends, you glorified rug!"

Genius
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:45 pm

ThePhilosopher wrote:
8people wrote:
If he has no death animation, how about making him flee when his health hits minimum?

"Run and tell your friends, you glorified rug!"

Genius

Yes. This is perfect.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:09 pm

8people wrote:
If he has no death animation, how about making him flee when his health hits minimum?

"Run and tell your friends, you glorified rug!"

That works for me too. And Feral will be happy we didn't kill one of his potential Lupine buddies. Smile
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simison
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:41 pm

*thumbs-up* Works for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:12 pm

PGM1961 wrote:
8people wrote:
If he has no death animation, how about making him flee when his health hits minimum?

"Run and tell your friends, you glorified rug!"

That works for me too. And Feral will be happy we didn't kill one of his potential Lupine buddies. Smile

Great! It's really brilliant idea! And yes, it makes me happy, PGM. For you to know, according to WoD lore they prefer to be called Garou. Patting over the head might help as well if you had ever met one. Well, sort of lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:07 pm

well thats an genius solution Smile hope it's doable and if, zer0, there u have it^^ now go DO Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:09 pm

Feral wrote:
Great! It's really brilliant idea! And yes, it makes me happy, PGM. For you to know, according to WoD lore they prefer to be called Garou. Patting over the head might help as well if you had ever met one. Well, sort of lol!

According to Garou lore, they're called Garou. In Bloodlines, I'm a vampire, and to vamps they are Lupines. If this were a 'Werewolf: The Apocalypse' forum, 'leeches' would be the nicest thing they'd call vampires. Also, I doubt they'd be happy letting a vamp run away, instead of killing it.

Oh, and if I ever pat a werewolf on the head, I expect to lose an arm. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:28 pm

ThePhilosopher wrote:
Everyone is tired from running like a little girl for 5-6 years, glassboy. And since only the powerbuilders will have any chance to kill the werewolf, why not make it killable? Razz

Also, it's not on CE, but TFN

Whoops... rabbit

Well, I guess that will be fine. On a role-playing note, I guess The Final Nights are bringing some vampires to power and others to weakness, hence the capability to go up against a werewolf.

If you'll excuse me, I might go to lurk in the TFN section to see how I can crunch some numbers to kill the nearly invincible... study
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PGM1961
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:51 am

glAssbOy wrote:
Whoops... rabbit

Well, I guess that will be fine. On a role-playing note, I guess The Final Nights are bringing some vampires to power and others to weakness, hence the capability to go up against a werewolf.

If you'll excuse me, I might go to lurk in the TFN section to see how I can crunch some numbers to kill the nearly invincible... study

I don't think it will take a powerbuilder to kill the thing. Just some strategy, and a little common sense. Except for a couple of experimental games, I never raise Strength or Dexterity above 4. Between the books, and lessons from Nines, and a certain magical item from Chinatown, it's quite easy to have a Melee feat of 9 or 10. Add in Disciplines that either boost your ability to withstand damage, or lower your opponent's ability to dish it out, and you're pretty powerful.

There is a certain strategy in using all of the various ability increases to your advantage. I'm sure we've all learned by now that using NPC's (Nines, Beckett, Romero, Bertram, Larry) to increase your Brawl, Melee, Scholarship, Firearms, Computer and Finance skills can save you XP, which can be used to raise other skills or traits. This isn't powergaming; it's just knowing how the game works, after playing it for six years.

I've touched on this before, but one reason your so-called 'Neonate' character is so powerful is that he has been groomed and guided almost from his creation to be nothing but a weapon. Viewed from the perspective of a PnP game, your PC is very one-sided... all Combat or Ninja-type skills, and few social skills except for sheer Charisma, which you use to charm people and get your way. Books, on-line classes, and more magical items than any one Kindred has a right to expect-- all have fallen into your lap quite easily, during your quest to find the Ankaran Sarcophagus. As we learn at the end (if you take the independent path), Smiling Jack turns out to be one of those who have manipulated you, but probably not the only one. Regent Strauss (the most likely source for several of your magic items) has probably pulled a few strings, as well as Mercurio, Nines, and Isaac, to name but a few. Even the werewolves might have a hand in it... that would explain the shamanistic fetishes you find, since those are their specialty. Prince LaCroix is actually the least subtle of all the Kindred who are using you, which probably explains his downfall at the end.

It will be really interesting to see how much social interaction they can put into the World of Darkness MMO. I think the people who are used to concentrating on physical power will be at a severe disadvantage when it comes to gaining Influence and Status.
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PostSubject: Re: Anyone ever wonder..?   Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:50 am

Sorry to take this on a bit of a sidetrack but I was just thinking about those suggestions of 'making friends' with the werewolves..

Now most wolves wouldn't give vamps the time of day unless it was in claw marks, but there are a few who interact with the nos on occasion and their kinfolk are already in the game. The doomsayer in SM speaks a little too much about the worm to not be kin to the bonegnawers. They have a 'camp' called ratfinks, sort of the nos of the werewolf world, very secretive but entirely devoid of technology or finance. Perhaps in later versions of TFN a quest of sorts could be created? They generally communicate with small notes stuck to bubble gum on the inside of a toilet roll or similar, and almost never approach a vamp directly. Since you do recover werewolf blood from the humans however they might give you a few more tasks to perform..? This would normally be something helping out the poor and homeless but none the less it would make inspection a very important stat for finding their little communications..?

Anyway, just a thought, though really you wouldn't meet a werewolf you would at least get to 'help' them..
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