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 WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?

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PGM1961
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PostSubject: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:10 pm

Here's another thread to alleviate the massive boredom. What you you guys want to see (or NOT see) in the upcoming World of Darkness MMO?

As for me, I don't want to see anything resembling a Gehenna storyline. They wouldn't do that anyway, because they want the game to last, but you know what I mean.

I would like to see something like a Camarilla/Sabbat rivalry. VtR seems to lack a driving force. Then again, the main reason for the Sabbat was supposedly that they were fighting against Antediluvian control, to stop Gehenna. Without that, I'm not sure they could justify the Sabbat. What do you think?

I've seen talk (on another, unnamed forum) about how some people would prefer that they go with some kind of Blood Potency trait (similar to VtR, apparently) rather than the OWoD concept of Generation. Some don't like the fact that with Generations, you can never be as powerful as your elders, unless you resort to Diablerie. Which would you guys prefer? Me, I'd be happy with a Generation scenario... even a 13th generation vampire can acquire power, and status.

In VtR, they have 5 basic clans: Daeva, Gangrel, Mekhet, Nosferatu, and Ventrue. All other clans are just bloodlines of those 5 clans. I'd like to see the old VtM clans, including the Sabbat and Independent clans. Maybe they could just add Daeva and Makhet to the 13 other clans; although 13 is kind of a magical number when you're talking creatures of the night. Or maybe Daeva and Mekhet could replace Toreador and Followers of Set, so we still have 13 clans? Thoughts?

One big worry a lot of people have is the possibility of 'ganking', or groups ganging up to take out other players, either for fun, or to gain their equipment, or both (like they do in some other MMO's, such as World of Warcraft). Now, I'm sure WOD is not going to have a lot of 'kewl' gear, like a +5 Brazier of Toastmaking or some such, so they would just be doing it for kicks. Are you worried about this possibility? If so, how do they avoid it?

Personally, I don't think this game is likely to appeal to those who get off on mindless combat, so I don't see it as a huge problem. But players could always band together and fight these Sabbat packs. (That's how I see them in game terms.) They could work for the Sheriff or Scourge of that area. There could be corruption in their ranks, but that would only make it more like OWoD. lol!
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:23 pm

Like I've mentioned before, I have no issue with Gehenna. In fact, I liked that aspect of VtM. And I don't see how having it in the MMO would cause problems, since there's no definite date for the End and it can stay as far off in the distance as the game needs it too. And by keeping Gehenna, there's no issues with keeping the Cam/Sab enmity going on strong like usual.

Now when it comes to Generation vs. BP, then I'm not so sure about which I would prefer. I've played both VtR and VtM, so I've dealt with both of them. I like how BP gives you a chance to move up without resorting to diabelerie. But there are some aspects of Generations I like. I wonder if they can pull off a hybrid of the two.

Regarding clans, I prefer VtM for its variety. Although I wouldn't mind seeing Mekhets or Daevas running around.

And, personally, I really hope that they can pull off social side of the game. We have enough MMOs with combat-heavy gameplay.

That's my 2 cents.
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:31 am

When I said no Gehenna storylines, what I meant was that they shouldn't dwell too much on it, like they did in VtM. Even before they decided to draw the whole metaplot to a close, there were always hints and 'portents' that we were living in the 'Final Nights'. Every gaming group I was in tended to put that more in the background, rather than base their entire story around it. Sure, there are always legends about the world ending, like the Y2K fears or the 2012 myth that people have taken from the Mayan calendar. But most people just go on about their lives (or unlives).

While I would like it if they included the Caine mythology in the WODMMO, it's not necessary. If the Sabbat exists at all, I hope they are more focused on resisting 'Antediluvian control', rather than trying to stop the end of the world.
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:51 am

Gotcha
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:54 am

Some Comments:
BP > Generation! Simply cuz i lust for the ultimate power.. i just wanna be the most ultra super hyper mega guy who rapes other asses Razz

Clans+: I would like to see that you can choose between 2 fractions like Kindred and Kuei-Jin or something like that possible Clans.. hmm.. i really don't care as long as there are more than 5 to choose from..

Story Gehenna: hmmm.. i don't like the Gehenna Story.. maybe a questline where u gather the key, sarcophagus etc. and you open it for a heavy Raid Boss.. well a World Boss (maybe someone knows Lineage 2.. so the RB would be something like Antharas / Valakas) where you really need much people to bring him down, but u get many drops^^ So they should do the Story like in WoW somehow(even though i don't like WoW much.. that thing is great^^).. 1 fraction vs. the other, Kindred vs Kuei-Jin for example and make the Sabbat normal Trash mobs and Adrian a Raid Boss...

Else: I want a mixed game of Social and Combat.. so nothing like "get quest kill mobs return".. you should be given the options to finish certain quests just with taking and persuasion, intimidation, seduction... there is the normal text and your options for your answer to choose from, but there are 3 buttons to choose persuasion, intimidation and seduction. But it's not like "press i know everything". There are a few possible answers, but only 1 leads the way to finish the quest, the rest gives you mali like you are not allowed to kill anyone but the target etc. so to do so, you have to gather information about the quest giver so you can answer correctly. And if you do so you get the same XP as if you would hunt down mobs (i guess they will give xp somehow too so if oyu have to kill 3 Sabbat guys who each give you 1 XP and you get 2 Xp for finishing the quest, you would gain 5 XP by doing it the "talking" way)

hope you understand what i am saying^^
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:15 am

Gehenna: Yeh i agree with you. They should keep it in the background.

What i really want is massive Camarilla vs Sabbat. I want to be able to take a city for for my faction, and maybe even become a prince, sheriff or priest. Have you guys ever played lineage 2 or ragnarok, when there's an option of you and your guild attacking and taking a castle? Pretty much this, except it works for all players of the faction, not needing a clan. Also, the player should be able to chose wether he wanted to be a sabbat or a cammie

Blood potency is far better than generation, generation is too restrictive. I would also like to be able to diablerize as well.

Oh, and i want to be able to play Tzimisce Razz.
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:52 am

Well I hope they won't simply transit pen and paper rules to the game, I'd very much like them to come up with modifications of their own. OWoD is very good, but it's not perfect (especially not for a cRPG), so adjustments are inevitable.

As for Gehenna - I recently finished Gehenna - the Final Night book for VtM and loved the idea. The game could be put very, very close to the beginning of Gehenna with some random events like failures of disciplines. It would put a sense of immediancy to gameplay.

That's my opinion anyways.
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:35 pm

I'm hoping for OWoD clans at least. The sects would be nice too, other than that, I guess I'm open, though I'm fond of the clans as written in revised, not a fan of the V:tR clans/bloodlines.

Quote :
Simply cuz i lust for the ultimate power.. i just wanna be the most ultra super hyper mega guy who rapes other asses

Not that in the game.

If nothing else they've put final death in and the last thing I want is someone running around trolling like that!

It's aimed more towards social and political play than combat anyway, there are three different types of area confirmed, a fully social area (styled on elysium I guess) a street style area and the third I've heard two different pieces of information on, one saying it was styled on the rack where you'll probably feed, one styled on dangerous territory, either way most say it will be like the street but with either more or less NPC dangers.
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:10 pm

I'd love to see Smiling Jack as a main npc!
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:41 pm

Klahera wrote:
I'd love to see Smiling Jack as a main npc!

Seconded!
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:50 pm

oWoD style, for sure. More clans is always better, Gehenna gives you some feeling of urgency, because without an end on the horizon technically you could keep sleeping/feeding and do little else. And definitely Generation. This game is all about moral dillemas for me. You want more power? Take it!But remember, that there is that little catch known as the consequences. I think that diablerie should be implemented, but with that nasty option Tremere got: beaing eaten alive from the inside. Soul of your victim taking over is like having second Beast. Only permanently. If you want more power, well... It should be possible to start with low generation, but at a dire price. Gain in a long run for temporary difficulties.
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:47 pm

8people wrote:
If nothing else they've put final death in and the last thing I want is someone running around trolling like that!

It's aimed more towards social and political play than combat anyway, there are three different types of area confirmed, a fully social area (styled on elysium I guess) a street style area and the third I've heard two different pieces of information on, one saying it was styled on the rack where you'll probably feed, one styled on dangerous territory, either way most say it will be like the street but with either more or less NPC dangers.

Where did you hear all of this? People have been giving their input on Planet-Vampire for what they'd like to have in the game, but I haven't seen anything yet where CCP have confirmed any of it. They have acknowledged that some people want Final Death in the game; but a lot of people don't want it, due to the possibility of player-killers and technical glitches. The same goes for the different areas you're likely to see.

Unless you have deeper contacts, I think it's still up in the air. All we can say for sure is that the world is likely to be built largely by players, similar to EVE Online. Which means social interactions will be important. Also, they're liable to cherrypick the best parts of VtR and VtM, and incorporate them into the game. I think Blood Potency is likely, but CCP isn't talking details yet.
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:49 pm

Everything is still mostly up in the air. But when they revealed the trailer they also did a little Q&A on what they would like in the game. Including how they want to focus on the social side of the game.
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:03 pm

One of the Q&As and stuff mentioned at the Masquerade thing, Final Death was going to be included and the social MMO was an aim from one of the original anouncements as well as the later ones.

It's not Planet Vampire I go on for info either, I only really used to pop along to see what there was new for Bloodlines mods/modding.
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:56 pm

Final Death in it? So like, we lose all our hard work if we reach zero hit points? Fuck, i'm not playing this for long.
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:26 pm

That Q&A session was only to see what suggestions people had for the game. I've read on a couple of sites that CCP isn't committing themselves either way. I even saw a video interview with Nathan Richardsson, head guy at CCP, and he gave away almost no real information about what would be included in the WODMMO. The only things he said for sure were basically: Sandbox oriented gameplay, social networking, and definitely no sparkles on the vampires. Nothing about Final Death. I'm all for it, but I'm leery about how they can pull it off.
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:55 pm

I'm guessing very specific conditions for it, one of the devs took great delight in bringing it up though.

Will have a look around see if I can find the direct reference again. I'm used to being around where everyone has read things before me so don't usually keep links and where I got info noted down.
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:13 am

Maybe they will do diablerie as sort of PVP reward system as you fight more vampires and consume them you go down in generation to which it would act more like a title than an actual game mechanic (maybe both, I dunno); that being said it would screw up the lore and social stigma attached to said act of violence cuz then everyone who wants to "lvl up" in those categories would have to perform diablerie even if it doesn't suit their character. Well now that I've typed that and think about it a bit more some mmorpgs have it so on a server you don't count as PVP until you attack someone classified as PVP, once you attack (commit diablerie) you become a classified as PVP character so anyone can attack you as well which would simulate a blood hunt.

Well that is my two cents atm. scratch
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:01 am

PGM1961 wrote:
That Q&A session was only to see what suggestions people had for the game. I've read on a couple of sites that CCP isn't committing themselves either way. I even saw a video interview with Nathan Richardsson, head guy at CCP, and he gave away almost no real information about what would be included in the WODMMO. The only things he said for sure were basically: Sandbox oriented gameplay, social networking, and definitely no sparkles on the vampires. Nothing about Final Death. I'm all for it, but I'm leery about how they can pull it off.

Might be the game is still too far away from completion to comment on that, too many things may change etc.

As for diablerie, if sticking to Vampire's lore it means destruction of the other vampire's soul, so it'd be game over for you if you are diablerised by someone. Highly improbable.
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:01 am

So far every MMO I've played or seen (and that's alot of them) are all the same. You grind for hours to get to the next level, you level up and get to choose a small power or upgrade, then you grind for more hours. Over and over again this repeats.

Vampire the Masquerade is built more upon socializing than combat, so I don't think it's possible to capture the World of Darkness in an MMO environment. I mean sure you can have a Vampire MMO, no problem, but it's going to be the same daily grind level grind and nothing like the real PnP World of Darkness.

It will be interesting to see how they set this whole thing up, but in the end I'm afraid it's going to be the same grind level grind. Team up a task force to kill a powerful boss, drop the loot, get the enchanted dagger, bla bla bla, same ol' MMO stuff in a WoD shell.

Sorry for the pesimistic attitude, but MMOs never change. scratch
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:49 am

Have you played Eve or some of the rarer social MMOs?
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:09 pm

8people wrote:
Have you played Eve or some of the rarer social MMOs?

Or WoW, for example?




Kidding afro

Anyway, forgot to add earlier that I'd like to see the rarer clans and bloodlines, like the Assamites or Baali. Gangrel\Brujah\Ventrue\Toreador\Tremere gets a bit old.
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:41 pm

Oh, Eve Online has nothing to do with newer MMO.. You should check out Neocron or Eve like already said earlier (where you gain xp while just existing).
In City of Heroes there is no "stuff", so you don't run for new armor pieces..


For the WoD MMO.. I hope the backround will be well thought of, with good npc and their backround (and plots !). I hope there should be some choices to make either with one or another character (and how discrete you were, you should tell isaac about strauss' gargoyle without strauss knowing isaac knows...), and better dialogues choices..
I hope the WoDO will be a Bloodlines only better Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:50 pm

Claudia wrote:



For the WoD MMO.. I hope the backround will be well thought of, with good npc and their backround (and plots !). I hope there should be some choices to make either with one or another character (and how discrete you were, you should tell isaac about strauss' gargoyle without strauss knowing isaac knows...), and better dialogues choices..
I hope the WoDO will be a Bloodlines only better Very Happy

I've got my fingers crossed!
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PostSubject: Re: WODMMO - What do you want/not want to see?   Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:46 pm

8people wrote:
Have you played Eve or some of the rarer social MMOs?

No, my main MMO experience is with City of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Startrek Online, Everquest 2, and Star Wars Galaxies. I've heard some interesting things about Eve Online, like it is an aquired MMO. I've heard most people either Love it or HATE it, and that it was very slow, boring, and took forever to get powerful. I don't like boring but I do like slow and it takes forever to get powerful.

Is Eve Online something I need to look further into? Also isn't CCP the creators of Eve?
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