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 TFN Humanity/Frenzy System

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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:07 am

(Revised)

Alright guys, after talking to a few of you in another thread I think I came up with something that everyone can be happy with regarding Low Humanity and Frenzying.

First off, I disabled the game's frenzying rules so I could take control of it myself using python scripts. The way Troika had it set was really funky and you couldn't really gauge the true numbers being calculated in the background, you just kind've had to guess what was going on. Well not anymore, my python script is beautiful and works perfect 100% of the time, and the values can be changed easily. It's very neat!!

Here's the new TFN rules regarding Humanity/Frenzy.

I downloaded the VTM Players Rulebook and that gave me great insight as to how all of this works. Because there is no Willpower stat we will have to blend Willpower + Humanity = Just Humanity. Sorry to those hardcore PnP rule junkies but it has to be this way. With that said, here's how it works in PnP. As your Humanity reduces you start having a harder time controlling the Beast within. You can however use Willpower to keep the Beast from taking over but you can never have a Willpower role higher than your current Humanity score. As your Humanity falls, it becomes easier to frenzy.

Now alot of people didn't like the idea that you could be walking down the street with a Humanity of, let's say 3, then all the sudden burst out in a frenzy killing 3 people and losing the game. I listened to you guys and wrote my script accordingly. So here's how it's going to work. The lower your Humanity is, the easier it is to frenzy depending on how hungry you are. Got that? A low Humanity alone will NOT make you randomly frenzy, you HAVE to have a low Humanity -AND- be hungry for a frenzy check. How Hungry? Well that depends on how low your Humanity is...

Here's the Stat Table I made (Took me about 6 hours to write and play test this so you better like it HAHA)

Humanity --> 6 (or higher).....Bloodpool --> 2 or less.....Frenzy checked --> 5 minutes accumulated
Humanity --> 5.....Bloodpool --> 3 or less.....Frenzy checked --> 5 minutes accumulated
Humanity --> 4.....Bloodpool --> 4 or less.....Frenzy checked --> 5 minutes accumulated
Humanity --> 3.....Bloodpool --> 5 or less.....Frenzy checked --> 4 minutes accumulated
Humanity --> 2.....Bloodpool --> 6 or less.....Frenzy checked --> 3 minutes accumulated
Humanity --> 1.....Bloodpool --> 8 or less.....Frenzy checked --> 2 minutes accumulated


So, if you have a Humanity of 4, and you get your Bloodpool down to 2 or less, the Frenzy Timer begins to run. After a TOTAL of 5 minutes accumulated, then a Frenzy Check will occur. This doesn't mean you WILL Frenzy, it means a check takes place. Also, let's say you have you Bloodpool at 0-2 and your Humanity is 4. You walk around like this for 3 minutes then feed on someone raising your Bloodpool to 5. The Frenzy Timer stops running but the game remembers you're at 3 minutes. So if your Humanity stays at 4 and you drop your Bloodpool down to 2 or less again, the timer picks back up at 3 minutes and begins adding until you reach a total of 5 minutes, then the Frenzy check is made.

<<Revised>>
If you read below, most people liked this new system except that some felt your Frenzy accumulation should reduce over time if you are well fed. Well I heard you and revised the script to do just that. NOW, if you have a full Bloodpool, the frenzy time accumulated will fall back to 0 at the same speed that you accumulated it.

For Example: You have a 1 Humanity and you have accumulated 1 minute of Frenzy time and managed to get your Bloodpool back up to 12 stopping the timer. The game remembers you are at 1 minute, so if you accumulate 1 more minute, a Frenzy check will take place. Now, if you get your Bloodpool back up to full for 1 minute (regardless of Humanity level), your Frenzy time will drop back to 0. So being full of blood is always a good thing when it comes to Frenzy.

I did it this way to accomplish many goals at once. 1) Having a low Humanity level makes your character succumb to Frenzy much faster depending on how hungry he/she is. 2) You can prevent walking down the street and POOF Frenzy on a crowd of people by staying fed and full of blood.

I feel this new system will really add an incentive to players to stray from the darkside but at the same time not limit those players who do want to dabble with the Beast, without ruining their game. I am proud to announce that today, in addition to this new script, I managed to write a second script so that when your Humanity drops to 0, the game fades out and you get to watch the Sheriff cut off your head and the game is over. I also made LaCroix the one who holds your head down, as a nice little touch! Razz

So what do you guys think of this system? Do you like it as much as I do?!?!?! WEEEEE!!! cheers




Last edited by Zer0Morph on Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:44 am

Sounds good, meshing humanity and willpower isn't all that bad since they work heavily upon each other for frenzy. And sine the game has little need for willpower otherwise it shouldn't hurt to keep it out even if there weren't problems with programming it in.

The accumulated effect is a nice touch, a good way to get players stressing a little when their blood runs low but still give them time to feed or find a safe place to hide.

Though the other thing addressed with your last post was how you loose humanity at low levels, are you still going with that system?
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:23 am

*WARNING: ADULT CONTENT. DO NOT READ IF YOU'RE UNDER 18 YEARS OLD*

Brad... your brain works quite well for a man with such large muscles... Smile

Just kidding. I love the system. The way I see it, it adds even more - in-depth psychology.

Let's say you're the arrogant short-tempered bitch that has no patience to be all polite and human. Succumbing to the Beast is what makes undeath so much more fun...

Then you're in a tough fight. You are blazing away them fireballs, scratchin' and bitin' and being shot at... It could ruin anyone's mood, let alone someone like you. Your health is drained, your blood pool is drained and you're one pissed bitch. You get out on the street and you see some guy smirking at you from across the street... And that's where you can't take it anymore. You growl, your fangs pop out and you're gonna bash that fucker to shreds along with anyone else whose dad was in the wrong vagina at the wrong time.

Or, what it means, characters with low humanity will easily Frenzy after a tough fight, which is psychologically justified - since this is EXACTLY how a short-tempered mean person would be like realistically.

Just love it! I love you
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:06 am

i like the general idea of this, BUT i don't like, that the timer is not reseted.. i don't want it the way "hmm 2 humanity, 2 bloodpoints.. timer runs like 2 min now, better feed now...... aaa that felt good, 8 bloodpoints and timer back to 0". I want it like the timer slowly is going back to 0.. so if you stop the timer at 3 min and get enough bloodpoints, the timer will be after 15 seconds at 2:59, after 30 seconds at 2:58.... after 150 seconds 2:50.. you know what i mean now right?^^
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:20 am

It'sa amazing, brodude.

I particularly liked the cross the sheriff is using Razz
And shabu, you only count the time if you want to O.o

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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:38 am

Amazing! It really adds that in-depth feel of moral dillemas. I'm fully for your new system, Zer0! Though ther is merit in Shabu's suggestion. After feeding a vampire would get calm and happy, and his Beast too Twisted Evil So this timer should tick backwards, only slower, like 10% ratio. In other words, one sesond substracted after 10 seconds with blood above given value.
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:51 am

Awesome, this is exactly what I expected with the tools available.

I do wish we had a will trait...

Now, you think you could limit persuation/secudtion (but not intimidation) to your humanity level ? With humanity 2, you shouldn't be able to relate enough to -let's say- Hanna the escort and tell her you're a doctor sent by the ghoul....
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:35 am

Decent. I'd leave out the non-resetting timer thing, though. Doesn't really make sense honestly.




PS just kidding, I think this feature is awesome afro That's some dedication you got there, man. Keep it up jocolor

PS 2 wasn't kidding about the timer
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:47 am

I'd hit it ! Very Happy lol!
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:53 am

The non reseting timer, is, I think, a good idea : you tortured the beast, it shouldn't be able to forgive you just because you passed the 2bloodpoints bar after leaving it starving Smile
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:15 pm

Scarecrow wrote:
Brad... your brain works quite well for a man with such large muscles... Smile

HAHA! This made me laugh! Thanks Scarecrow, I used to be super fat and weak and I just couldn't take it anymore. I've found that being healthy and in shape actuallyl makes my brain think clearer and more focused.

Tell ya what, I spent all day Saturday (yesterday) in my room with the door shut in the dark, for about 16 hours, only coming out for potty and food breaks. I did manage to take 2 hours out to go bench press at the gym, but other than that I was in my room (the one in the pictures) the entire morning, afternoon, and night, and didn't go to bed until it was finished at 3am. Now that's dedication!! HAHA

Shabutaro wrote:
i like the general idea of this, BUT i don't like, that the timer is not reseted.. i don't want it the way "hmm 2 humanity, 2 bloodpoints.. timer runs like 2 min now, better feed now...... aaa that felt good, 8 bloodpoints and timer back to 0"

I'm having a hard time understanding what you're saying here. Can you clarify?

Celsius wrote:
PS 2 wasn't kidding about the timer

What don't you like about the timer? Is it the fact that it remembers the time and picks up where it left off once you drop below the frenzy threshold?

ThePhilosopher wrote:
I particularly liked the cross the sheriff is using Razz

It's actually not a cross, it's his giant sword, the top of the picture cut it off but when you see the scene you see him bring down his big sword and *lop*, your head comes off. "You have suffered final death" Game Over!



To everyone else, thanks for the props! I really think this new system will be super fun and fair, but still challenging. I've spent the last week trying to figure out exactly how I wanted to go about handling Humanity and Frenzy, and after reading the Players Handbook for VtM I was able to make this decision.

Who here has actually read the Players Handbook for VtM? You know the green marble cover with the red rose? It's a damn good book, everyone should get it! It brings new perspective to Bloodlines and I'm starting to see the game in a whole new light, it actually is making Bloodlines more fun to play now!
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:28 pm

I was playing pnp long time before Bloodlines came out, I still read it regularly Wink along with all the revised clanbooks and other sourcebooks.

This is a beautiful solution to the humanity/frenzy thing, I'm looking forward to seeing it in action, it's great Smile very impressive!

Also I believe the complaint on the timer not resetting is that you could have say, 3 humanity, and you start to get bully rumbles and seek out a tasty snack, 3:50 later you find someone to nom on and satiate yourself.

Half an hour later you get back into rumbly belly territory... you look around to see what there is to eat and ten seconds later you're murmering over a corpse and rubbing some unidentified organ over your stiff nipples (Clanbook: Toreador reference!)

I think the issue was - feeding should reset the timer, not just a frenzy check itself.
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:43 pm

Good stuff! "Hi, I'm Smilin' Jack, and I approve this message! Hehehehehe."
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:45 pm

8people wrote:
"...ten seconds later you're murmering over a corpse and rubbing some unidentified organ over your stiff nipples"

What? You mean I'm not the only one that happens to?
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:59 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Who here has actually read the Players Handbook for VtM? You know the green marble cover with the red rose? It's a damn good book, everyone should get it! It brings new perspective to Bloodlines and I'm starting to see the game in a whole new light, it actually is making Bloodlines more fun to play now!

Um... you mean the VtM Core rulebook? That's the one with the rose. The Players Guide has a guy crouched on a rooftop (at least, the edition I have).

Pretty much have the rulebook memorized, actually. No joke.
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:33 pm

PGM1961 wrote:
Pretty much have the rulebook memorized, actually. No joke.

Me too. Laughing
I managed to get a really great copy of the revised 2nd/3rd edition for a nice, cheap price. About 15 € or so... I've been looking for months to get this thing, and it started to drive me nuts. Finally adding it to my little collection was simply awesome. (Try to get a copy with a seller that ships to Europe, and then try to get one in decent quality. The prices'll make your eyes pop out. Especially if you want one of the rare German editions. Good thing I can understand English, heh.)

Back to topic...
I actually like the new frenzy system and can't really complain about it, but then again, I'm playing characters with such low humanity levels very seldom at best. I like the challenge it provides, though. And if you don't like it, hey, it's only about 6 XP (tops) to go from 1 to 4 to avoid the timer altogether. Shouldn't be that hard...
(I want to add, though, that I find it extremely hilarious, albeit unlikely, that LaCroix holds the players head down on the 'game over' cutscene. Never, ever would that guy lower himself to this level. But, errr, this is really just a tinsy tiny thing... it's for perfectionists, you might say. Smile )

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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:38 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:

Shabutaro wrote:
i like the general idea of this, BUT i don't like, that the timer is not reseted.. i don't want it the way "hmm 2 humanity, 2 bloodpoints.. timer runs like 2 min now, better feed now...... aaa that felt good, 8 bloodpoints and timer back to 0"

I'm having a hard time understanding what you're saying here. Can you clarify?

What i want to say is, that the timer should slowly go back and not just stop. Just because your satisfied after feeding so your relaxing and the beast is too. What i just said there is just an example of how i don't want this to clarify what i really want. Feral got what i meant to say.. sry i know my english sucks^^
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:59 pm

Once again I listened to you guys, and made the appropriate changes. I updated this in the first post too...

Here's the Stat Table I made (Took me about 6 hours to write and play test this so you better like it HAHA)

Humanity --> 6 (or higher).....Bloodpool --> 2 or less.....Frenzy checked --> 5 minutes accumulated
Humanity --> 5.....Bloodpool --> 3 or less.....Frenzy checked --> 5 minutes accumulated
Humanity --> 4.....Bloodpool --> 4 or less.....Frenzy checked --> 5 minutes accumulated
Humanity --> 3.....Bloodpool --> 5 or less.....Frenzy checked --> 4 minutes accumulated
Humanity --> 2.....Bloodpool --> 6 or less.....Frenzy checked --> 3 minutes accumulated
Humanity --> 1.....Bloodpool --> 8 or less.....Frenzy checked --> 2 minutes accumulated

Note: At full blood, your Frenzy timer will reduce at the same speed it increased, until it's back to 0


<<Revised>>
If you read below, most people liked this new system except that some felt your Frenzy accumulation should reduce over time if you are well fed. Well I heard you and revised the script to do just that. NOW, if you have a full Bloodpool, the frenzy time accumulated will fall back to 0 at the same speed that you accumulated it.

For Example: You have a 1 Humanity and you have accumulated 1 minute of Frenzy time and managed to get your Bloodpool back up to 12 stopping the timer. The game remembers you are at 1 minute, so if you accumulate 1 more minute, a Frenzy check will take place. Now, if you get your Bloodpool back up to full for 1 minute (regardless of Humanity level), your Frenzy time will drop back to 0. So being full of blood is always a good thing when it comes to Frenzy.


I do like these new rules too, it makes sense and it gave me a chance to look at the overall system and apply these rules to all Humanity levels, because who's to say those with high Humanity scores are immune to frenzying (though it's obviously very tough too, but I wanted it to at least be possible).

PGM,

Yes, the core rulebook, my bad.
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:52 pm

Looking forward to testing it out in-game.
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:21 pm

yaay thats how i wantd it Razz good job 0
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:47 pm

This one is the core book (third edition). Player's guide is kind of useless...



This one is second edition



I do have most Masquerade books (all editions alike), and i did read them all, and I can check them out for information if you want Smile
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:18 pm

This is a very elegant solution Zer0Morph. I am impressed.

A cross, ThePhilosopher? The Sheriff's weapon has the overt appearance of a sword which can be construed to resemble a cross. As it is now, The Sheriff's sword is textured to look like a giant version of a much smaller weapon. This is comical. It's not the size of the weapon that invites ridicule, but rather its presentation. I always imagined The Sheriff's giant sword being made out of a main rotor blade from a helicopter (as they are already infamous for the lopping off of heads) which has been sharpened to a razor's edge on one side. This way, the need to avail the services of a swordsmith is no more, now one only needs access to welding and grinding equipment. The result is The Sheriff's continued anonymity and the final presentation of the sword being a lot less Final Fantasy and alot more real life.
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:44 pm

Personally, I think the Sheriff is compensating for some... shortcoming. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:44 am

You know, if I ran into someone who could wield that kind of sword, I'd want to run the other way as quickly as I can.
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PostSubject: Re: TFN Humanity/Frenzy System   Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:55 am

Helicopter blade eh? That's kind've cool actually. Maybe he could wield dual dumpsters for fists, imagine getting punched with a dumpster, ouch. pale
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