Daydream Believer

i talk to the daydream believer on the Santa Monica Pier beach, i feed him all the persuasion lines that instigate the quest, and then i leave him to go collect the items, and when i return to him the dialogue use icon does not appear, i cannot engage him in conversation to complete the quest by selling him the items.

i am talking CE 1.4 here, which i just downloaded and started playing.

Did he tell you, he'll go get some money? After that you have to leave and reload the pier map before you can talk to him again. Either do the beach house (astrolite quest) or just go up to the parking garage until the Santa Monica map is loaded, and then return.
After that you should have no troubles talking to him and selling the items.

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Actually you don't even need to leave the map, just the end the dialogue with him then strike up another conversation. I had to do this about 10 times testing the dialogue for TFN.

Zer0Morph wrote:

Actually you don't even need to leave the map, just the end the dialogue with him then strike up another conversation. I had to do this about 10 times testing the dialogue for TFN.

I remember that not working in CE 1.4. I expected to have to leave the map before I sold him the stake, Like Malkav said, but TFN doesn't have that requirement. I guess between CE 1.2 and 1.4 that changed.

i second PGM, zer0morph, in CE 1.4 that doesn't work anymore

and i eventually reached that conclusion and it worked, Malkav.

indeed i had to load the Beach House map and advance the Surf's Up quest before reloading the Pier map, but then i had no trouble completing the quest.

plot wise it makes sense, he does say he needs time to collect the money, some game event had to happen to simulate that passage of time

game wise it makes sense, it makes it a slightly more challenging quest, requiring intervening map transitions, it makes it a bit harder to exploit him, it is no longer as instantaneous as it used to be.

okay maybe it was a bit hasty of me to report it as bug

but it frustrated me to have to move on to the beach house with that loose end left dangling, while in past gaming experiences i had been able to tie it up nicely.

but yeah i like it as it is.

you do have to go through the Pier map beach on your way back to the Santa Monica hub after advancing the Surf's Up quest at the Beach House map, so you don't have to make a detour to complete this quest, you don't loose time at all.

all in all, well done.

The need to leave the map is an addition made by the 7.0 patch, that's the reason you need it in CE 1.4, but not in earlier versions of CE or in TFN.

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ah so it even was not "your fault", so to speak.
if i may ask, if it were not for that, would you still include this feature?

Copper states in his dialogue, that he has to go and get some money. So I think, it's not a bad idea. And as most people probably talk to the thinbloods before going to the beachhouse, it's no problem. I'd prefer it, if it would be enough to go up to the pier to look into the murder scene and then talk to him, but that's not possible as it's the same map.
And I really think it's necessary to either remove Copper for a while (to get the money), or to force the player off the map to give Copper time to get the money.

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From a realistic side it makes sense... he says he needs time to get the money so Wesp did a good job implementing it. From a gaming standpoint I can see where it would frustrating players to have to wait, especially when they were used to completing it right there. If a quest update appeared when Copper said "Come back in a little while" that said to give Copper some time to get his money, I think that could clear up some confusion.

anyway i always did as malkav mentioned, upon arriving at the beach first thing i would talk to the thin bloods, then i would collect the items, stake and gum, then i would do everything i need at the peer, see beckett in the distance, kill the cop to get his baton (hey it was suggested in a walkthrough and turned into SOP), update the Carnival of Death quest, maybe feed on the hooker at the arcade, and only when done with the pier return to the beach to conclude that quest with the thin blood.

could you make being able to talk with him again dependent on updating the Carnival of Death quest? you can only talk with him again to complete that quest after advancing the carnival of death quest, meaning you have had to go to the end of the pier, and with that journey given him enough time to collect his money and be able to complete the quest?

i also had the idea for a timer, perhaps inner and hidden, that copper only becomes available to talk again after some time has elapsed, a time that the player can feel as he will.

sometimes i think after a conversation the NPCs do go away? run away from the character? and fade in the distance? but indeed if that were implemented it would only make sense that he was back there only upon reloading the map...

it occurred to me also that maybe also the pier should be a different map, but that is probably... unrealistic, unfeasable at this stage, i am sure you cannot break maps, etc....
but indeed the beach is a location upon itself, with at least one quest initiated there, while the pier appears like another location upon itself, with another side quest updated there.

but me personaly i would hate that, with my slow computer going from one map to another takes forever, sometimes in a gaming session i spend more time say reading a book while the computer loads the next map that i spend actually playing the game.
i for one don't resent that the pier and the beach are in the same map.