Given a choice, would you REALLY want to be a vampire?

I wonder, is it just the fact that one has to consume blood as a Vampire, or is it just the general idea of being a corpse that has the tendency to walk around like it forgot about it's death, and has a thirst for blood? Perhaps leeches are just as bad? Oh wait, those are some how natural, even though they don't mind feasting on blood. Bats too, even though they tend not to go for humans, so they don't count either(i.e - no one cares about animals - at least not the cute ones).

Though my thoughts have been expressed already, I feel that my reasons for agreeing to such a thing is, pretty simple(if something that some could view as a balant betrayal). All of the reasons 'humanity is great' aside, its all the things that make it one of the worst species in existence that many tend to avoid in these cases. Not to even jump on the very human emotion to see difference as dangerous, aside from the fact that they might know or care nothing about intentions. Some could merely see a Vampire, and the want to kill it is instant, no matter what intention the Vampire might have. These hunters tend to forget that a Vampire's lust for blood is sometimes just about its survival, yet they don't care about the fact that they have to kill things to sustain their existence. Where nothing says a Vampire has to kill every human it feeds from...no matter how fun it is...*shakes head*....Terribly sorry, I don't know what that was.

Either way, choice is there for a reason. Though one has to think, that if a Vampire had the idea to embrace you(or whatever a given mythos calls it), you probably wouldn't have much of a choice. Though that isn't counting any of those human disciplines, as those might not apply for any random person.

Well, this is very lively... strange for a group of undead. No matter. One major problem I see with Vampires is the symbolism in drinking 'blood,' which unlike natural animals whom consume blood for sustenance, is more akin to absorbing the life-force of the victim, and using it to prolong their Undeath. Completely unforgivable, and against the laws of Nature. In fact, the entire premise of Immortality is. They are absorbing, draining the lives of those around them for their 'Immortal' existence, thus bringing suffering to the innocent for entire generations. Especially with how Vampires eventually fall, no matter how hard they may attempt to stay 'Human' they will always fail in the end, the prolonged 'state' of life they exist in promises that. How utterly... boring life would become over time. They would eventually seek new and more... sadistic.. ways to entertain themselves, and most likely by that time period, they have gained in strength, becoming much more then a mere nuisance to deal with. As such, sadly, threats must be nipped in the bud, at least, until a cure becomes available, and in that case, I may be able to retire and leave a peaceful existence. Heh, with all the things I've seen, what's the chance of that.

Daris wrote:

One major problem I see with Vampires is the symbolism in drinking 'blood,' which unlike natural animals whom consume blood for sustenance, is more akin to absorbing the life-force of the victim, and using it to prolong their Undeath. Completely unforgivable, and against the laws of Nature. In fact, the entire premise of Immortality is. They are absorbing, draining the lives of those around them for their 'Immortal' existence, thus bringing suffering to the innocent for entire generations. Especially with how Vampires eventually fall, no matter how hard they may attempt to stay 'Human' they will always fail in the end, the prolonged 'state' of life they exist in promises that. How utterly... boring life would become over time. They would eventually seek new and more... sadistic.. ways to entertain themselves, and most likely by that time period, they have gained in strength, becoming much more then a mere nuisance to deal with. As such, sadly, threats must be nipped in the bud, at least, until a cure becomes available, and in that case, I may be able to retire and leave a peaceful existence. Heh, with all the things I've seen, what's the chance of that.

"Completely unforgivable"... "Against the Laws of Nature"... How many times have people used these phrases to vilify their enemies, so that they can kill them with a clean conscience? Words like this, and much worse, have been used over the years to describe Jews, Muslims, pagans, blacks, asians, native Americans, etc. The list goes on. Do many vampires give in to their darker impulses? Yes. In V:tM, the Sabbat have renounced whatever Humanity they once had, and regard humans as cattle. But not all vampires feel that way.

I don't buy that 'inevitable fall from Humanity' line either -- and neither did White Wolf. It's a hard road, certainly... the righteous path will always be harder to walk than the easy path of giving in to your darker impulses. This applies to humans as well as vampires. But redemption is possible. If the fall from grace were truly inevitable, you wouldn't be able to raise Humanity once it has dropped. In V:tM, even if you give in to your Beast in a moment of hunger or fear, you can still regain your Humanity if you try hard enough (i.e. spend experience to raise it back up).

Also, if someone used their powers to help humankind, and fight those monsters that prey on the innocent, I would regard someone like that as a symbiote, rather than a parasite. A symbiote offers a beneficial service for the sustenance it draws from the host species.

As for killing young vampires, who may never have killed a human, just to 'nip their threat in the bud'... well, our legal system has a word for the act of killing someone, simply because you're afraid the victim 'might turn evil some day'. It's called 'murder'. Try to use that defense in a court of law, and you will be in jail in a heartbeat. This is like killing every Muslim, because they might become terrorists. Just because some of them will be terrorists, doesn't give you the moral right to kill them all. It's the 'Kill them all, and let God sort out the innocent' type of mentality. Of course, some people actually believe that philosophy.

If we really lived in the World of Darkness, and if vampires were real (Which they are not... I want to stress this, because the phraseology of your comments is a little too 'in character' for my comfort)... if they were real, and I were a hunter, I would not be able to just kill all vampires, without some evidence of evil-doing. By the same token, if I were Embraced, I would not personally take action against vampire hunters -- unless they tried to kill me, or those under my protection. Then I would act in self-defense.

Eh, yeah, I'm a big roleplayer, sadly I have never had the opportunity to try anything role-play wise from the World of Darkness, although I would really like too one day, (Just gotta find a new group.. yet again.... I hate moving -.-). I t'was just having fun playing as a Hunter-esque persona, whom takes some of my philosophies about Vampires to the extreme. But, truly I would rather wish to be a Hunter rather than a Vampire... even if being a Vampire would 'optimize' a person's body. If I happened to really become a Vampire though, I... well, I've never really thought about it much. Although I love Vampires, I always seem to think of myself more in a Survivor/Hunter role. Of course, that really doesn't stop me from playing as them in as many video games as I could... damn I'm hypocritical.

Anyways, I feel strongly about any type of Undead as 'breaking' the laws of nature, by existing. Vampires being Intelligent does pose an issue, being more sympathetic then other types of Undead, especially because mainly Vampires had no choice in the matter of becoming one. And the power that is given to Vampires though, poses a threat, because Power corrupts. Even if a person was 'good' as a human, the new abilities, the new lifestyle, all of that may change whom they actually are.

But being a Hunter, you must always keep up your guard, because with just one glance, you could be hypnotized. It's pretty hard to trust a Vampire in that type of setting, they could just be lowering your guard for an easy kill...

[Hmm, now I'm wishing there was a Roleplay sub-forum on this place.... ah well...]

Daris wrote:

[Hmm, now I'm wishing there was a Roleplay sub-forum on this place.... ah well...]

We could make that happen, think people would use it?

I'm not sure about this community considering I just joined a few days ago, but I know I would use it...I've been wanting to find a new place to roleplay at for a while, and I have always wished to try this setting as well... And considering how VtM is well, a Roleplay game, I think others here would most likely use it as well. But, I don't know for sure.

Ya know, if i were a vamp i'd kill any hunters i could. Why? cuz they'd do the same to me.

Zer0, i'm all for a roleplaying forum. But it would eventually have some "fight" in it, and some jerk would eventually say he's a second generation blahblahblah with some new discipline and yadda yadda. So let's keep this idea as an idea only.

It's whatever you guys want, it would be easy to setup a new Section dedicated to Roleplaying VtM. The more people we have online and the more site visits we get, the happier our site hosts are... and thats always a good thing!

So, if you think there will be fights bad enough to not even have a section, maybe you guys could moderate it for us, so Malkav and I don't really have to get involved. If someone is being disruptive to a game (thread), they can always be banned... it's not a big deal. Personally though I would never roleplay because I'm too busy making TFN, it would be great to see TCI light up over something like this.



Edit: Another option would be to activate the forum Chat feature on TCI for roleplaying purposes. We can enable a box at the bottom of the main page here and members can sign in and chat with each other, like a normal chat room. If we do it this way, then we won't have miles and miles of postings and you will get the messages instantly so the Storyteller could hold a real-time roleplaying session.

They have an 'Interactive Story Board' area over on Planet-Vampire. I've never used it, but I've never heard of any big arguments about gamebreaking characters. I think they agree to that stuff beforehand. Not sure if there are moderators too.

I do know that they have an 'Out Of Character' discussion thread, as well as a few In-character threads- one of which is the main 'PVbN' (Planet Vampire By Night) thread.

If they can do it, don't see why we can't. Don't know how many people would use it though. I've avoided it, because I know I'd spend too much time on it.

Daris wrote:

I'm not sure about this community considering I just joined a few days ago, but I know I would use it...I've been wanting to find a new place to roleplay at for a while, and I have always wished to try this setting as well... And considering how VtM is well, a Roleplay game, I think others here would most likely use it as well. But, I don't know for sure.

If you're really looking for a place to roleplay in VtM, (and this place doesn't get an RP forum up in the near future) I am part of a Dark Ages game on Google Wave, in case you're interested. I'll be honest with you though, we're in a slow period right now. But in our little campaign, anyone can start a scene.

EDIT: And I just realized that a PM may have been more advisable, sorry for the out-of-topic post.

Well either way, if you guys do decide you want a sub-forum here for roleplaying and you have some ideas on how you think we should implement it, just shoot me a PM with your ideas and I can try to make it happen.

The simple awnser is yes.

Reason 1. being because I am greedy and indulgent. I want to the fun things that happen in life to continue as long as possible. Vampirism would be a way of bringing about this endless cycle of indulgence.

Reason 2. I think I am at least slightly sociopathic. The isolation, masuerade, obscurity, these are all things that I pretty much already do. Alot of us human beings have two faces. A private one. And a social one. Again referencing Dexter, we have masks. The prospect to truly be a monster is on some level, invigorating.

Oh and if you guys got into roleplay, omg, I'd be happy to make avatars for your characters.

Zer0Morph wrote:

It's whatever you guys want, it would be easy to setup a new Section dedicated to Roleplaying VtM. The more people we have online and the more site visits we get, the happier our site hosts are... and thats always a good thing!

So, if you think there will be fights bad enough to not even have a section, maybe you guys could moderate it for us, so Malkav and I don't really have to get involved. If someone is being disruptive to a game (thread), they can always be banned... it's not a big deal. Personally though I would never roleplay because I'm too busy making TFN, it would be great to see TCI light up over something like this.

For the problem of moderating, I'd suggest giving the Storyteller(s) moderator rights. We could remove them after a campain is closed, or if the storyteller abuses it.

Quote :

Edit: Another option would be to activate the forum Chat feature on TCI for roleplaying purposes. We can enable a box at the bottom of the main page here and members can sign in and chat with each other, like a normal chat room. If we do it this way, then we won't have miles and miles of postings and you will get the messages instantly so the Storyteller could hold a real-time roleplaying session.

Real time playing would be a realtime problem. Imagine Claudia from France being storyteller. That would be good for Eliza and me from Germany (same time zone), or 8people (1 hour behind). For you, it would be 6 hours, and for people from the westcoast about 12 hours. So how do you handle that.
No, if we do a roleplay here, it has to be handled like a normal forum so everybody can join any game without having to stay up all night or skip work.

-

Ok, Yeah I wasn't sure how that would work myself. I got an email from Eliza and she sounds pretty excited about getting this off the ground so I'm going to respond to her and see what she wants to do exactly.

Rudest wrote:

The simple awnser is yes.

Reason 1. being because I am greedy and indulgent. I want to the fun things that happen in life to continue as long as possible. Vampirism would be a way of bringing about this endless cycle of indulgence.

Bad, bad boy...

Rudest wrote:

Reason 2. I think I am at least slightly sociopathic. The isolation, masuerade, obscurity, these are all things that I pretty much already do. Alot of us human beings have two faces. A private one. And a social one. Again referencing Dexter, we have masks. The prospect to truly be a monster is on some level, invigorating.

We all are, to a degree. We all wear masks. Though I would prefer simplicity of seeing the night forest through the eyes of a wolf over indulgence. But whatever floats your boat.

Rudest wrote:

Oh and if you guys got into roleplay, omg, I'd be happy to make avatars for your characters.

That would be nice!

If I could be a vampire i would, I'd be eihter a Nosferatu ( ) or a Malkavian.

Nosferatu: Knowledge is power and nobody understands this better than nosferatu, power is......expensive, the Nosferatu run the vampire world without running it, for without them nobody would know half the things that happen, therefor making them indispensable.

Malkavian: Again, Knowledge, malkavians know things no other vampire can, it would be really fun to play with other people's minds, making them crazy, fearful and jealouz of such power.

All in all, I'd love to be a vampire

Would you really chose to be demented/insane/psycho? O.o

Or painfully disfigured

ThePhilosopher wrote:

Would you really chose to be demented/insane/psycho? O.o

8people wrote:

Or painfully disfigured

Little sacrifices for a greater power, demented/insane/psycho (which i'm already are by the way) are great to keep people you don't want close...far, giving you the time you need to find the subtle secrets of such a condition.

And disfigured too, have you seen the movie Nosferatu, with Count Orlok, his appeareance was awsome, and effective at keeping people away.
What better child of the night than the one that absolutely needs to hide, muahahaha

But you don't get to choose your appearance. In VtM, not every Nosferatu looks like the movie variety, or like Gary, in VtM:Bloodlines. What if your flavor of deformity fused one of your arms to your body, and you lost the use of it forever? Or your skin peeled itself off your body in bloody strips, leaving you in pain and fighting the Beast for eternity? It's a crap shoot. The ugliness isn't the bad part... it's not knowing how the curse will twist your body. Still worth it?

Same for Malkavian. I've never known any homicidal maniacs, but I've known a few people with mental disorders. It takes over your life. You'd be a little too busy trying to think straight to worry about the 'secrets' to which your madness gives you access.

I've already mentioned a few situations, and a few clans, for which I might accept the gift/curse of vampirism, in order to accomplish certain goals. But the immortality, and the power I would gain, are not good enough reasons in themselves for me. You have to have some idea what to do with both, or you're in for a rough existence.

Nosferatu's Childe wrote:

malkavians know things no other vampire can, it would be really fun to play with other people's minds, making them crazy, fearful and jealouz of such power.

Actually, that's BS. According to the basic VTM corebook (don't try all other books, they contradict each other and some are just full of non sens since it's never the same author, nor the same guidelines, and then we get a Mage Werewolf Hunter who was Embraced)
Malkavian don't know squat, they are just plain insane, there is no secret knowledge, no "seeing the world as it is", no "awesome insight". Just plain pure awful and scary mental disorders.

PGM1961 wrote:

I've already mentioned a few situations, and a few clans, for which I might accept the gift/curse of vampirism, in order to accomplish certain goals. But the immortality, and the power I would gain, are not good enough reasons in themselves for me. You have to have some idea what to do with both, or you're in for a rough existence.

Vampire: The Eternal Camping! Hanging out with wolves, nature, eternity to think and create, freedom to roam wherever you want,.. Not to forget Animalism, Fortitude, Protean I'm sometimes curious how the world looks like through the eyes of a wolf. And, any other Disciplines I could learn during countless nights wouldn't hurt. With my curiosity I would end up indebtet through Prestation for a few millenia worth of paying back in under a decade of unlife Poor me. But eternal learning and wandering would be good. OK, enough, I start to sound like Beckett...

I wouldn't say Malkavians are plain insane with just mental disorders nor assuming they are all knowing about secrets or that can unfold everything about future.
I see people treat Malkavians in two categories: lunatic's or Godly blessed, I would say they are very interesting.
From the perspective of a Malkavian the extra "secret" information acquired is not always with a meaning, of course it has a meaning but how the hell one can put the pieces together and assemble the "truthful puzzle".
I don't doubt "seeing the world as it is" isn't a Malk trait but rather "seeing the world as it is" makes any sense at all to an "insane" individual.
"awesome insight" sounds a bit too much (more like a gypsy fortune-teller) but insight is more or less present to different characters as talent is present more or less at humans.

We as player's see the Malkavian madness as a blessing because we have been in the future (i.e we experienced the game before) and we saw how it's going to look like and it's just amazing, who wouldn't love to get hold of such "awesome skill".
When I first played the game as Malk, the whispers the subtle dialogs didn't make any sense at all only after finishing the game I got impressed by them.
The twisted mind of the Malkavian prevents it from giving a meaning to an insight, funny that this curse hold the both sides of the coin, the good and the bad side.
Obvious a guy who has never been in the position of a Malk can state that: Malk's are all insane with rubbish rabble-babble.

The basic VTM corebook writes about Malkavians not from a Malkavian perspective.

OK to answer the topic: What I love about the game is that the character was not given a chance to be a vampire or human, but after all the character did not reject it's nature.

The Vampire corebook write about each clan from a Narrator's perspective, so sure it's non-malkavian, but it's pure truth information.
Again, the Malkavian PC in Bloodlines is just an excuse to get lols and winks of the plot itself, but everything he says could be understood in many many ways (Jack in the Box, Janus' daughters, jester prince and wizard king). I do not take Bloodlines as a pure good example of what's a Malkavian.

After all, I'm dating a psychologist and I worked for white wolf as a GM

Again, every GM makes what he wants about the clan and it's "powers", but for the most times, Malkavians are just plain crazy. But the Malkavians chose to embrace people that have Mental Attributes as primary, so Malkavians ARE intelligent. Like the Joker from Batman, a pure evil motherfucker out of his mind, but not stupid.

UncleCruncle wrote:

I wouldn't say Malkavians are plain insane with just mental disorders nor assuming they are all knowing about secrets or that can unfold everything about future.
I see people treat Malkavians in two categories: lunatic's or Godly blessed, I would say they are very interesting.
From the perspective of a Malkavian the extra "secret" information acquired is not always with a meaning, of course it has a meaning but how the hell one can put the pieces together and assemble the "truthful puzzle".
I don't doubt "seeing the world as it is" isn't a Malk trait but rather "seeing the world as it is" makes any sense at all to an "insane" individual.
"awesome insight" sounds a bit too much (more like a gypsy fortune-teller) but insight is more or less present to different characters as talent is present more or less at humans.

We as player's see the Malkavian madness as a blessing because we have been in the future (i.e we experienced the game before) and we saw how it's going to look like and it's just amazing, who wouldn't love to get hold of such "awesome skill".
When I first played the game as Malk, the whispers the subtle dialogs didn't make any sense at all only after finishing the game I got impressed by them.
The twisted mind of the Malkavian prevents it from giving a meaning to an insight, funny that this curse hold the both sides of the coin, the good and the bad side.
Obvious a guy who has never been in the position of a Malk can state that: Malk's are all insane with rubbish rabble-babble.

The basic VTM corebook writes about Malkavians not from a Malkavian perspective.

OK to answer the topic: What I love about the game is that the character was not given a chance to be a vampire or human, but after all the character did not reject it's nature.

Holy shit, that's a great interpretation of a Malkavian's mind.
I love the way you explain their condition with the two faces of a coin, it's true the madness of the malkavian have a meaning to me only because I gave it one after playing the game, but still it would fun to TRY to understand the makavian madness, like Grout tried to if i'm not mistaken.