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 Tha 1.2 Version

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Celsius
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PostSubject: Tha 1.2 Version   Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:05 pm

So I heard you like...Mudkips?

If so, lemme pill off some ideas for the upcoming release, since I figured posting in a thread about Male Gangrel's face just won't do it.

Anyways, I gotta feeling those new Domination powers are a bit overpowered, though I'd need to see how they work in-game. I'll try to think up something for Tier 5, since I think Mass Suicide or something similar is a bit unoriginal. I admit, though, that I got no good ideas ATM.

Second one - histories. I like the changes you've made, but there is still a lot of place for improvement. Right now histories are for people who like challenge, I for myself rarely use them. Yeah, I know, easier said than done, but I have faith in you Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Tha 1.2 Version   Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:33 am

Celsius wrote:
So I heard you like...Mudkips?

If so, lemme pill off some ideas for the upcoming release, since I figured posting in a thread about Male Gangrel's face just won't do it.

Anyways, I gotta feeling those new Domination powers are a bit overpowered, though I'd need to see how they work in-game. I'll try to think up something for Tier 5, since I think Mass Suicide or something similar is a bit unoriginal. I admit, though, that I got no good ideas ATM.

Second one - histories. I like the changes you've made, but there is still a lot of place for improvement. Right now histories are for people who like challenge, I for myself rarely use them. Yeah, I know, easier said than done, but I have faith in you Smile

Male Gangrel face, I lawled. Razz

From the way I described the new Dom powers may seem overpowered but trust me, they aren't, especially with Suicide and Possession gone. I am very very limited on what changes I can make up so we'll probably have to make Tier 5 similiar to Mass Suicide, whether thats fortunate or unfortunate is yet to tell but know I am doing my best with what limited tools I have.

What kind of improvements do you wish to see with the histories I have already come up with?
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PostSubject: Re: Tha 1.2 Version   Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:25 pm

Perhaps for the Tier 5 Dominate you could make a power that would permamently wipe out human's mind and stun\damage undead? If targeted on human, it will make him a vegetable, alive but unable to take any kind of action. When targeted on supernaturals, it'd stun them for a couple of seconds and do some damage.

As for histories, here's some feedback:
- Highway Drifter gives you free points for nothing, since no one really buys humanity points. It's so easy to get them that you don't have to. Perhaps lower Persuasion?
-Eldritch Prodigy is too demanding - just one point of Thaumaturgy for a huge xp loss? You will loose much more than 5 points if you cap xp points at 3

That's all I can think of for now.
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PostSubject: Re: Tha 1.2 Version   Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:33 pm

Celsius wrote:
Perhaps for the Tier 5 Dominate you could make a power that would permamently wipe out human's mind and stun\damage undead? If targeted on human, it will make him a vegetable, alive but unable to take any kind of action. When targeted on supernaturals, it'd stun them for a couple of seconds and do some damage.

As for histories, here's some feedback:
- Highway Drifter gives you free points for nothing, since no one really buys humanity points. It's so easy to get them that you don't have to. Perhaps lower Persuasion?
-Eldritch Prodigy is too demanding - just one point of Thaumaturgy for a huge xp loss? You will loose much more than 5 points if you cap xp points at 3

That's all I can think of for now.

I guess you didn't know this but when you get a FREE discipline point through the histories, the cost you save in XP is far far greater than 5. It's a bonus and when you go to upgrade that discipline later in the game it doesn't take into account that you have the bonus.

So lets say you have level 1 Thaumaturgy with a +1 bonus effectively giving you level 2 Thaumaturgy. When you go to level it up it will cost you 5, not 10. When you go to level from 4 to 5 it will cost you 15, not 20. So if you plan on taking Thaumaturgy to 5 you would effectively save yourself 20 XP points.

20 XP is alot in my opinion...
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lofgren
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PostSubject: Re: Tha 1.2 Version   Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:38 pm

I think it would be interesting if histories allowed you to add another discipline in exchange for not being able to add points to one of your current disciplines. For example a gangrel who has obfuscate but cannot raise fortitude above 1, or a nosferatu with auspex who cannot raise potence (I find both potence and fortitude to be rather dull disciplines).

It's a bit less creative use of histories, but mixing and matching disciplines has huge replay value.

Obviously there would be balance concerns, but as long as you are careful with which abilities get mixed and matched it should be possible to balance. No giving a clan both protean and potence at the same time, for example.
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PostSubject: Re: Tha 1.2 Version   Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:12 pm

I have tried that, building a Malk with celerity by using a history.

But all i could o was setting it to a predefined level. I couldn't spend xp on the new discipline.
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PostSubject: Re: Tha 1.2 Version   Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:14 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
I have tried that, building a Malk with celerity by using a history.

But all i could o was setting it to a predefined level. I couldn't spend xp on the new discipline.

I was just about to comment on that. You got it to actually show up in the character list? Believe me I've desperately tried to change disciplines via histories and have had no luck.
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PostSubject: Re: Tha 1.2 Version   Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:25 pm

I put these lines in Traiteffects000. But it probably only worked out because i balanced by removing bloodbuff for that history.



TraitEffect
{
"Trait" "Celerity"
"Modifier" "Min 3"
}
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PostSubject: Re: Tha 1.2 Version   Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:44 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
Childe of Malkav wrote:
I have tried that, building a Malk with celerity by using a history.

But all i could o was setting it to a predefined level. I couldn't spend xp on the new discipline.

I was just about to comment on that. You got it to actually show up in the character list? Believe me I've desperately tried to change disciplines via histories and have had no luck.

If you give yourself 2 points in any discipline you don't have via the console, it shows up right there on the character sheet alongside the others and can be bought as normal for the rest of the game.

I would think the same thing can be done through a history.
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PostSubject: Re: Tha 1.2 Version   Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:12 am

Childe of Malkav wrote:
I put these lines in Traiteffects000. But it probably only worked out because i balanced by removing bloodbuff for that history.



TraitEffect
{
"Trait" "Celerity"
"Modifier" "Min 3"
}

Ok ya I've done that before too, it's a fun little hack but too many issues to release to the public.
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PostSubject: Re: Tha 1.2 Version   Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:45 pm

lofgren wrote:
If you give yourself 2 points in any discipline you don't have via the console, it shows up right there on the character sheet alongside the others and can be bought as normal for the rest of the game.

I would think the same thing can be done through a history.

I have never used the console. But I tried everything I could think of to get the history working. Celerity appeared in the character sheet and i could use it in the game but i was not able to spend any experience on this discipline
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PostSubject: Re: Tha 1.2 Version   Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:20 pm

I've seen a mod that added that physical disciplines to each clan - could that possibly unlock the potential required here? I believe it was the pnp mod, though I would have to go back and confirm. It wasn't done through histories - though surely the code utilised could be adapted somehow? Even if it goes through a secondary variable/script?
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PostSubject: Re: Tha 1.2 Version   Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:31 pm

Hm, I tried giving all Malks Celerity by changing the clan database. I could use and upgrade the discipline as usual, but Jack accused me of cheating when i first talked to him.
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PostSubject: Re: Tha 1.2 Version   Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:42 pm

Yeah, he does that if some of the original histories are used as well - his script looks for out of place dots, not sure how, or which script it is. Just need to add a little dialogue option that redirects him to his previous conversation or disable the check command once it's found. Maybe could make it so a discipline is available on the character screen but not upgradable during character creation? Not sure how you could limit that though. So may be implausible.
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PostSubject: Re: Tha 1.2 Version   Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:20 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
lofgren wrote:
If you give yourself 2 points in any discipline you don't have via the console, it shows up right there on the character sheet alongside the others and can be bought as normal for the rest of the game.

I would think the same thing can be done through a history.

I have never used the console. But I tried everything I could think of to get the history working. Celerity appeared in the character sheet and i could use it in the game but i was not able to spend any experience on this discipline

Well if all you care about is adding the discipline, and not making it "street legal" so to speak, you can just type vstats get (discipline name) 2 in the console. This will give you 1 point in the new discipline (since you start off with -1). It is then upgradable as normal throughout the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Tha 1.2 Version   Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:37 pm

lofgren wrote:
Well if all you care about is adding the discipline, and not making it "street legal" so to speak, you can just type vstats get (discipline name) 2 in the console. This will give you 1 point in the new discipline (since you start off with -1). It is then upgradable as normal throughout the game.

I wanted to have it balanced by other changes and i like looking into the internal works of a game. That's why i tried to establish a history for this character.
But thanks anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Tha 1.2 Version   Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:50 pm

Childe of Malkav wrote:
lofgren wrote:
Well if all you care about is adding the discipline, and not making it "street legal" so to speak, you can just type vstats get (discipline name) 2 in the console. This will give you 1 point in the new discipline (since you start off with -1). It is then upgradable as normal throughout the game.

I wanted to have it balanced by other changes and i like looking into the internal works of a game. That's why i tried to establish a history for this character.
But thanks anyway.

I just choose another discipline and opt never to use it or place any points in it.

But it is somehow more satisfying to have it integrated, even if the effect on the gaming experience is identical.
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