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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: The Inspection System   Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:08 am

TCI Members and Fans,

I'm proud to sit down and explain how the new Inspection System will work in The Final Nights. But first, let me explain how the original Bloodlines used the Inspection Feat. In the vanilla version items were randomly put all over the game in various places. These items ranged from weapons to ammo, and blood bags to lore books, and they never changed locations meaning when players found out where they were, they could go directly back to that spot with a different character in a different game and quickly pick it up. All the Inspection Feat did was add sparklies (to capture your attention) to the items laying around which didn't really help much for items the player already knew were there.

The Final Nights has changed all of that. To avoid this kind of item exploitation and to make the Inspection Feat worth having, we removed every single item and replaced them with items that ONLY appear if the player has a high enough Inspection Feat to see them. You see, the items now lay around (like before) but are invisible and cannot be picked up unless the players Inspection Feat is high enough. On top of that, if you raise your Inspection the new items will appear immediately, you do not have to reload the map.

Okay, now it's Q&A time!

Q: Since Auspex temporarily raises my Inspection Feat, can I use that to find items I normally couldn't see?
A: Yes! This is a new addition in TFN 1.4 where Auspex will reveal hidden items in real time. They will appear when you activate Auspex and will disappear when you deactivate it.

Q: Do the items move spots with a new game or are they always in the same spots, just hidden.
A: They are in the same spot, you just can't see them until your Inspection is high enough.

Q: What happens if I leave an area, let's say Santa Monica and head Downtown. While I'm Downtown I raise my Inspection Feat by 2 points. When I go back to Santa Monica will the newer items be there?
A: Yes they will. For players who enjoy exploration then this System is for you. Whenever you raise your Inspection level it will be wise to go back to previously explored areas to find the new items you missed before.

Q: What kinds of items can we find in the hubs or other areas?
A: Items that can be recovered range from weapons to blood bags and occult items to expensive resale items. If you're Inspection is high enough, you can even find armor that's generally not available to you until the next hub. Imagine wearing the Hollywood armor set while you're still in the Downtown stage of the game. Smile

Possible Strategies: The TFN Inspection Feat can also be paired up with a high Haggle score because of the high priced items you can find. Even if you don't want to keep the items you find, selling them with a high Haggle score can net you some great cash!


Last edited by Zer0Morph on Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:27 pm; edited 2 times in total
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ThePhilosopher
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:16 am

With the haggle and inspection now beign worth so much more, will we still have xp for combat and discipline skills without beign too much penalized for it? Razz
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:29 am

HAHA! Yeah seriously. I sat down the other night and made a new test character and built him as if I was going to run him through the whole game. Because I knew how valuable Haggle and Inspection are now I really had a hard time picking what I wanted. After the Beach House quest I had 5 XP and I hadn't a clue how to spend them. With disciplines being on a base 6 instead of base 5 XP scale, it really makes you want to increase your Non-Discipline skills first, at least at the beginning of the game when XP is hard to come by.
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Jad.3
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:29 am

What made you decide Auspex won't affect Inspection? When I use Heightened Senses, I'd expect to see better y'know...
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:42 am

Jad.3 wrote:
What made you decide Auspex won't affect Inspection? When I use Heightened Senses, I'd expect to see better y'know...

Ya know, i'm with you on that one. I guess the reason zero didn't allow it was because people would memorize the place with stuff and cast auspex there. It is however only logical that, with heightened senses, you can notice things better.

So we pretty much got to chose

No Exploit + No Auspex Logic or Possible Exploit + Auspex Logic.


hmmh. scratch
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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:43 pm

I understand what you are both saying and I agree with it. I didn't explain how Auspex affects Inspection very well in my Q&A. Here's how it works.

Inspection is checked to see if items are visible or invisible to the player, as well as if those visible items are sparkling or not. While Auspex will not make invisible items become visible, the already visible items that aren't sparkling can still benefit from Auspex.

Example: Your Inspection makes an item become visible but it's in a dark corner somewhere and you miss it. Now if your Inspection was one level higher it would've been sparkling as you walked past. Well Auspex will still affect that already visible item making it sparkle so the player would notice it better. What Auspex WON'T do is make an invisible item suddenly BECOME visible temporarily.

That's what I meant by Auspex can't be used as an exploit. I updated the Q&A to better explain that.
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Jad.3
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:26 pm

Solomons solution.
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:08 pm

I just wanted to throw in here that I love the way you think... because the way you think generates replay value through player decision-making... and that's the most valuable value of all. I love when I'm looking at my character sheet and frustrated because I have a lot of good decisions I could make, but I can only pick one... especially when I have to reconcile "what is the best tactical decision" with "what makes sense based on my characters' character".

Can you reprogram my life?

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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:16 am

Inspection feat had it's use upon revealing Tung's scheme from his ghoul Knox, but I'm not sure if that was in vanilla or later unofficial patches.
I think that the higher Inspection will reveal more dialog lines with some npc's just like with Knox.
I tested this thing with Vandal the blood bank manager during thin blood quest; after rescuing Lilly Vandal will have a chat with you and you have to reason him to sell blood for you further on after the incident, now to get to the point:
- I had 6 persuasion points and 1 point to inspection and I could not convince him via persuasion to sell me blood (after the persuasion line he asked me to tell him a cruel story/event - something bad I did to someone but with 1 inspection point I didn't have any story to tell him) -> consequence: I had to get a new blood doll or sort him out with some cash.
- I could intimidate this wicked ghoul with just 3 points and he gave me a freebie (delightful) -> consequence: I didn't have to get a new blood doll nor sort him out with some little cash; as I mentioned he gave me a freebie.
- I wanted to test the inspection feat and added 4 points (I had 5 points in persuasion too) and voila new dialog lines available -> consequence: he was not giving a freebie thou; I didn't have to get a new blood doll nor sort him out with some little cash.


I read that a lot of people think inspection is useless but I disagree.
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Zer0Morph
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:07 pm

I really appreciate the kind words, Foxy. Wink

UncleCruncle wrote:
I read that a lot of people think inspection is useless but I disagree.

In the original vanilla game, the cost of XP vs. the benefit of having a higher Inspection didn't equal out in my opinion. Nor did Haggle or Intimidation in my opinion.
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ThePhilosopher
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:35 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
I really appreciate the kind words, Foxy. Wink

UncleCruncle wrote:
I read that a lot of people think inspection is useless but I disagree.

In the original vanilla game, the cost of XP vs. the benefit of having a higher Inspection didn't equal out in my opinion. Nor did Haggle or Intimidation in my opinion.

Nor did Haggle or Intimidation or Inspection or Seduction or....(more coming soon) Wink
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:24 am

UncleCruncle wrote:
Inspection feat had it's use upon revealing Tung's scheme from his ghoul Knox, but I'm not sure if that was in vanilla or later unofficial patches.

Correction, you need Perecepion 3 to see through Knox's ruse. You need Inspection for Johansen if I remember correctly.

Sadly only 1 occasion you have any use of Perception outside of combat and 1 occasion only where you have some use if Inspection outside of outlining items.

There should have been more opportunities to benefit at least from Inspection like that.
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Jad.3
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:26 pm

I thought seeing through Knox was tied to Malkavians, and did I laugh hard when I played one.
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:47 pm

Sykar wrote:
UncleCruncle wrote:
Inspection feat had it's use upon revealing Tung's scheme from his ghoul Knox, but I'm not sure if that was in vanilla or later unofficial patches.

Correction, you need Perecepion 3 to see through Knox's ruse. You need Inspection for Johansen if I remember correctly.
Nah, the inspection feat is what counts with Knox. I'm pretty sure. Otherwise it wouldn't have worked with Perception 1 and malk bonus +2 (that's how I noticed it first).

I remember having to buy inspection feat 5 to see through Johansen, but I can't say for sure that Perception, Investigate or Inspection was the one needed.
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Childe of Malkav
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:39 pm

I'm not sure for Johansen, but for Knox, it's possible to see throu his disguise with different things. Perception 3 is one. I think Int 3, or something like that, also works. And inspection can do the trick, too, but I'm not sure about the level needed. But it's not limited to Malks, that's for sure.

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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:27 am

Yeah but I recall you have to make him talk in a certain order to sense that something's wrong ^^
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Tue May 03, 2011 9:44 pm

Zer0Morph wrote:
TCI Members and Fans,

To avoid this kind of item exploitation and to make the Inspection Feat worth having, we removed a great deal of items, especially in the four main hubs, and replaced them with items that ONLY appear if the player has a high enough Inspection Feat to see them. You see, the items now lay around (like before) but are invisible and cannot be picked up unless the players Inspection Feat is high enough.

I wondered if that was the case. I ran into the bathroom in my crap apartment when I started the game and the pills weren't in the cabinet and the watch wasn't next to the toilet. Then I started to think maybe they weren't in the unmodded versions and moved on but still thought they should've been there. BLAST! I already figured out that Haggle is important, but now I should start dumping XP into inspections.

Wise decision. Me likey.
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Tue May 03, 2011 9:49 pm

Thanks Faeri!

The idea was to make some of the less used Feats more worth having. Inspection and Haggle were at the top of our list. Because I know the ins and outs of TFN (I wonder why, lol) I also make sure my Haggle is at least 5 and same with my Inspection. Nice thing about Inspection is that you can always increase it later in the game and pick up the items you missed. Of course you have to hunt for them, but for the most part the good items like Free Armor, Occult Items, and very expensive weapons can be found in the main hubs, just lying around. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Mon May 09, 2011 8:39 am

just got to hollywood.. went for a walk in the alleys.. whats that? ding ding ding FLAMETHROWER!! win Smile I just can't find those damn occult items... i bet they are in some corner of some crappy place where you only go once in the whole game or where u actually never have to go.. grr spent about 30 minutes in SM to find that damn occult item-.-
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Mon May 09, 2011 1:01 pm

In TFN 1.1 it will be worth finding the occult items regardless if you need them or not. I've raised the sell value to match the buy value so every occult item in the game will be worth some good money, just in case you don't want to keep them and rather have cash.
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Thu May 19, 2011 4:42 pm

I'm glad to see that feat finally being worth investing XP, like everyone else I usually just ignored it. Now for the first time I saw those hidden doors at the Giovanni Stronghold sparkle ^^ And getting the Ithaca that early in the game is quite an asset.
But I think that some items are still too easy to find. With Inspection 5 I found the Sledgehammer and the flame thrower upon entering Hollywood, so I had both the best Melee weapon for killing humans and the Gargoyle as well as the best weapon for killing... well, everything, actually. A hunter at a peep show? A crazy Serial killer? A Tzimisce elder? A Tong ambush in Chinatown? Just burn them. That was way to early in the game to find a weapon like that. In addition, with Inspection 6 I found the Body Armor in Chinatown. Again, that should be more difficult. I mean, for having Inspection level 6 in Chinatown you don't even have to actually specialize in Ranged Combat, just have enough Perception to at least hit anything and a few points of Investigation because you know it has become more important than it has been in Bloodlines.
On the other hand, even with Inspection 10 I wasn't able to track down any of the occult items Neutral
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:40 pm

Isn't there some kind of balance issue ? I mean the inspection feat is tied to perception, what if I want to play melee and that I'm looking for occult items ? I'd have to waste XP on my per attribute ? I bet it's quite expensive, XP wise.
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:48 pm

Fusei wrote:
Isn't there some kind of balance issue ? I mean the inspection feat is tied to perception, what if I want to play melee and that I'm looking for occult items ? I'd have to waste XP on my per attribute ? I bet it's quite expensive, XP wise.
That's part of what Zer0 intended to do for TFN: You have to make choices, sometimes even bad ones...

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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:34 pm

Does inspection work correctly??
I tested at the hospital in the room with Malcolm's keys..... i can see the keys with at least 5 points of inspection,but if i have 4 and i use Auspex they don't appear. Also if i have 4 and i buy 1 point of perception/investigation they don't appear. I have to go out of the hospital and then come back in Sad
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PostSubject: Re: The Inspection System   Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:52 pm

This is a known bug that will be fixed once Zer0 had time to test all the fixes and publish a 1.4.1 version.

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